I'll Say What Many Are Already Thinking - Mosconi Cup, 2014

[BasementDweller]

Could never disagree with this! It has been tough to watch.
Along with the Ryder Cup of golf, Team USA is really just
choking lately. This is a matter of getting our asses handed
to us. Then the powers that be want to set up a "task force"
for the golfers. WTF? How about winning? How about
executing the shot when it matters most? I also think it is
becoming painfully obvious that we lack heart and the desire
to win. I don't see any fire. When Earl misses a shot it is
the end of the world. I saw Corey twitching on his backstroke,
rattled the ball and pretty much just shrugged his shoulders.
We need to turn this around! Let's get fired up! :grin-devilish:

We lack the heart and desire to win?

I don't buy that for a second.

They are getting beaten by a better team. It's the same story as the last few years. The European team consistently includes World Championship level players. Guys that are comfortable on the largest stages. Add to that the fact that most of the European players flat out have better fundamentals and this is what you get.

Year after year the better team wins.

In short race, high pressure situations fundamentals are vitally important. Every little mistake becomes so magnified. This is part of the reason I think Shane doesn't do as well in this format. Many of the U.S. players are better front runners and when they hit their top gear they play phenomenally. The Mosconi Cup doesn't afford the players the opportunity to reach that top gear, so it becomes a battle of whose B game is the best and because of their rock solid fundamentals the Europeans usually win out.

That's really all there is to it.

Having said that, you never know. Maybe Shane comes out of the gate on fire today and he gets the boys all fired up.

 

[NitPicker]

I agree, BD.

 

[Jaden]

Bullshit...

We lack the heart and desire to win?

I don't buy that for a second.

They are getting beaten by a better team. It's the same story as the last few years. The European team consistently includes World Championship level players. Guys that are comfortable on the largest stages. Add to that the fact that most of the European players flat out have better fundamentals and this is what you get.

Year after year the better team wins.

In short race, high pressure situations fundamentals are vitally important. Every little mistake becomes so magnified. This is part of the reason I think Shane doesn't do as well in this format. Many of the U.S. players are better front runners and when they hit their top gear they play phenomenally. The Mosconi Cup doesn't afford the players the opportunity to reach that top gear, so it becomes a battle of whose B game is the best and because of their rock solid fundamentals the Europeans usually win out.

That's really all there is to it.

Having said that, you never know. Maybe Shane comes out of the gate on fire today and he gets the boys all fired up.

I watched one match yesterday where the US team had multiple balls go in that shouldn't have.

I counted 4 matches yesterday that team Europe had multiple balls that were miss hit that shouldn't have fallen but did.

And several from the previous days as well.

To say US is outclassed is ridiculous. It's not outclassing. It's a combination of several factors and it's not over yet.

Being down 4 matches out of 14 played is NOT that bad. Several of those matches should've gone to the US, this could easily be reversed right now.

Take into the consideration home field advantage with a bunch of belligerant dicks constantly grating on you and loose conditions with many rolls going to the other team and it's even less daunting of a deficit...

Jaden

 

[BasementDweller]

I watched one match yesterday where the US team had multiple balls go in that shouldn't have.

I counted 4 matches yesterday that team Europe had multiple balls that were miss hit that shouldn't have fallen but did.

And several from the previous days as well.

To say US is outclassed is ridiculous. It's not outclassing. It's a combination of several factors and it's not over yet.

Being down 4 matches out of 14 played is NOT that bad. Several of those matches should've gone to the US, this could easily be reversed right now.

Take into the consideration home field advantage with a bunch of belligerant dicks constantly grating on you and loose conditions with many rolls going to the other team and it's even less daunting of a deficit...

Jaden

If we were just talking about a single year -- I would agree with you. But we are not. It's the same story every year and someone always comes with the "bad rolls" excuse, or the sharking excuse, or the break rules are set up against the U.S., etc. We are never outclassed according to some.

It's a FACT that this is NOT too short of a contest to properly determine the better team. Just look at the overall rack totals from the previous few years and it's clear who the better team is. Racing to 70, 80 or whatever the equivalent would be is long enough to outrun the bad rolls for the most part.

I will say, I have been impressed with both Justin's this year. I think Bergman has played really well with just a few big mistakes sprinkled in. Give him another year and I think he will be mentally prepared to play his best. Same with Hall, except he's even played better.

Those two along with Shane and Dechaine give me hope for the future of U.S. pool. If we could only get some of our U.S. players to shorten up those long strokes I think we would better off. When you are playing on glass I think the Darren Appleton short and compact stroke is much better, but I guess that's a topic for another thread.

 

[PoolBum]

It WOULD be correct if pool players were machines... They are not.

They are living breathing people with emotions.

Jaden

I was talking about the math.

 

[BasementDweller]

I watched one match yesterday where the US team had multiple balls go in that shouldn't have.

I counted 4 matches yesterday that team Europe had multiple balls that were miss hit that shouldn't have fallen but did.

And several from the previous days as well.

[...]

Jaden

If they went in -- they went in. That's not really even a valid complaint.

Do you really believe that the U.S. players would do better on tighter equipment playing against many players that came from disciplines where they played on tables with pockets much tougher than any tight American pool table?

 

[TwoRailDave]

US is definitely outclassed. All of the players in the cup have a high gear but the pressure has exposed their aversion to conventional fundamentals.

It is obvious that Europe is in much better control of their emotions. I say these things because of the way the US team has been rushing easy

shots that end up getting them into trouble, making bad decisions, are constantly jumping up and displaying uncomfortable body movement, and

just seem much less solid at the table. All that said, I cannot hold that against any of them. That is the style and mentality that has brought them

success thus far. Expecting them to be someone else is obviously unrealistic and pompous. It is my opinion that a simpler stroke and more

disciplined approach is a better recipe for success, especially in a format with this level of pressure, but there is one big exception to that and it's

name is Shane Van Boening. Europe has these guys in a tough spot. The UK team of Appleton, Shaw, Melling, Boyes, and Grey or Peach wouldn't

be underdogs to the US in any game or format except one pocket. Even if we continue to play poorly, I definitely enjoyed these guys'

performance to the guys last year. That was a disgrace and they made our country look like a bunch of assholes, especially when compared to

the class team Europe generally displays. I'll be rooting for Justin Hall more now as well. He really seems like a nice guy and he represents our

country well.

 

[Jaden]

I won't say that...

If we were just talking about a single year -- I would agree with you. But we are not. It's the same story every year and someone always comes with the "bad rolls" excuse, or the sharking excuse, or the break rules aren't set up against the U.S., etc. We are never outclassed according to some.

It's a FACT that this is NOT too short of a contest to properly determine the better team. Just look at the overall rack totals from the previous few years and it's clear who the better team is. Racing to 70, 80 or whatever the equivalent would be is long enough to outrun the bad rolls for the most part.

I will say, I have been impressed with both Justin's this year. I think Bergman has played really well with just a few big mistakes sprinkled in. Give him another year and I think he will be mentally prepared to play his best. Same with Hall, except he's even played better.

Those two along with Shane and Dechaine give me hope for the future of U.S. pool. If we could only get some of our U.S. players to shorten up those long strokes I think we would better off. When you are playing on glass I think the Darren Appleton short and compact stroke is much better, but I guess that a topic for another thread.

In several of the past years we were out "classed"... Not in pool excellence, but in class...

Overcome the class issue and we will compete. Our crowds are outclassing theirs, that's for sure..

Jaden

 

[Jaden]

Yes I do...

If they went in -- they went in. That's not really even a valid complaint.

Do you really believe that the U.S. players would do better on tighter equipment playing against many players that came from disciplines where they played on tables with pockets much tougher than any tight American pool table?

Yepperly, I do...

Jaden

 

[Kim Bye]

Yepperly, I do...

Jaden

What was the last years score again...

 

[Quesports]

OMG Shane missed the 4 ball!!!!!!!!!!!!! BIH for Appleton....

OMG Shane now misses the 1 ball!!!!!!!! BIH for Appleton!!!!!!! AGAIN>>>

 

[icucybe]

Boy would I have liked Hall to play the second match! Lot of pressure on Shane in the first two.

 

[Jaden]

This is exactly what I was talking about...

I"ve seen Shane get down 4-1 before and then come back and win 7 or 8 straight to take down the match.

That's impossible with this format. This is a non momentum format and is STUPID at the top level.

Jaden

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Shane didn't show up and Darren certainly did with pinpoint accuracy and brilliance.

Europe is now on the hill.

C'mon Shane, get one back.

GO USA!!

best,
brian kc

 

[slide13]

Would love to see Shane put together one good and clean match...but after that beat I'm not sure it's very likely. Guessing his mental state is far from positive right now.

 

[BasementDweller]

Yepperly, I do...

Jaden

This opinion of yours is based on what exactly?

Appleton is a former #1 in English 8 Ball and finished 2nd to Garreth Potts at the Chinese Masters 8 Ball Tournament. A tourney that Shane played in and had no chance on a tight snooker pocketed 9 foot table.

Boyes is another English 8 Ball player = tight pockets.

Gray is former PRO snooker player = tight pockets.

Neils Feijen is Neils Feijen and shoots about as straight as any pool player in the world.

Ekonomopoulos is the only player on their team that shoots like a traditional pool player. Maybe tighter equipment would slow him down.

 

[Inaction]

That's impossible with this format. This is a non momentum format and is STUPID at the top level.

Jaden

I agree, this event is more in line with professional wrestling and Monster Trucks. Circus Arena is a fitting name for the venue.

 

[SakuJack]

I"ve seen Shane get down 4-1 before and then come back and win 7 or 8 straight to take down the match.

That's impossible with this format. This is a non momentum format and is STUPID at the top level.

Jaden

Why is it stupid? Mistakes at this level should be punished, and a short race makes sure of that.

 

[prad]

I"ve seen Shane get down 4-1 before and then come back and win 7 or 8 straight to take down the match.

That's impossible with this format. This is a non momentum format and is STUPID at the top level.

Jaden

Yeah blame the format, blame the hostile condition, table etc ...typical pool player attitude (making excuses)

What about all those opportunists that Euro gave to US players and we failed to capitalize on them ? You blame the format for that too ??

 

[runouteasy]

In several of the past years we were out "classed"... Not in pool excellence, but in class...

Overcome the class issue and we will compete. Our crowds are outclassing theirs, that's for sure..

Jaden

Pool is not a popularity contest. It takes real talent to win. winning 5 or 6 makes no difference over last year or any other. The team we fielded had no chance at all.