Illustration of BHE....

randyg said:
Nice job Jaden....thanks.

I've been using BHE for years with less problems than normal. I even teach BHE in our X.O.P.Class......SPF=randyg
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I have used BHE and yes, it does work. But IMHO, I think it leads to BAD habits.

I really like the parallel method better. Twisting your cue in the middle of a shot to obtain BHE and fidgiting around gets you out of rhythm, IMHO.

I just like visualizing the shot, stepping up to the shot with the desired english, and firing away. When you are in stroke, you don't need BHE.

And someone please correct me if I am wrong here. At the US Open Alanco and Immonen did NOT use BHE!!!!!!!! They just stepped up to the cueball with parallel english and just fired away. As a matter of fact, in all of the countless TV matches that I have observed, I can't remember one player who gets down, fidgits to get BHE, and then shoots. Maybe they do it so fast that I can't tell.

Please list the players you know who use BHE and I will start watching more closely.

Thanks, WW
 
whitewolf said:
I have used BHE and yes, it does work. But IMHO, I think it leads to BAD habits.

I really like the parallel method better. Twisting your cue in the middle of a shot to obtain BHE and fidgiting around gets you out of rhythm, IMHO.

I just like visualizing the shot, stepping up to the shot with the desired english, and firing away. When you are in stroke, you don't need BHE.

And someone please correct me if I am wrong here. At the US Open Alanco and Immonen did NOT use BHE!!!!!!!! They just stepped up to the cueball with parallel english and just fired away. As a matter of fact, in all of the countless TV matches that I have observed, I can't remember one player who gets down, fidgits to get BHE, and then shoots. Maybe they do it so fast that I can't tell.

Please list the players you know who use BHE and I will start watching more closely.

Thanks, WW
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WW. I do not twist my cue in the middle of my stroke. After I set my aim, I BHE, then I do two small warm-up strokes and go....SPF=randyg
 
SVB using BHE here?

whitewolf said:
I have used BHE and yes, it does work. But IMHO, I think it leads to BAD habits.

I really like the parallel method better. Twisting your cue in the middle of a shot to obtain BHE and fidgiting around gets you out of rhythm, IMHO.

I just like visualizing the shot, stepping up to the shot with the desired english, and firing away. When you are in stroke, you don't need BHE.

And someone please correct me if I am wrong here. At the US Open Alanco and Immonen did NOT use BHE!!!!!!!! They just stepped up to the cueball with parallel english and just fired away. As a matter of fact, in all of the countless TV matches that I have observed, I can't remember one player who gets down, fidgits to get BHE, and then shoots. Maybe they do it so fast that I can't tell.

Please list the players you know who use BHE and I will start watching more closely.

Thanks, WW
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I just noticed this tonight. Shane Van Boeing appears to use BHE for his shot at 48.20. Drag the slider near to the end of the video to get there quickly and save 100 mb in download.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtGe0FouC6A

I haven't watched the whole clip, so would be interesting to see if he pivots after aim like this regularly.

FWIW WW, I think BHE requires quite a bit of practice otherwise it can be quite distracting to one's game.

Colin
 
Its my experience that LD shafts pivot around the joint. So best to use a combination of shift and pivot. About 50% of each. ie to get 1tip...50% shift, 50% bhe.

Colin...what do you use? You did a great job explaining BHE in the video you made. But I would like to know what you actually USE when you play.

There are great players who pocket balls and have no idea how they do it and there are scientists who can explain the physics of whats going on but cant play so well. I consider you to be one of the few who can shoot well AND explain well the art of shooting and the science behind what you do and say.

Happy New Year
 
cmbwsu said:
In essence then, you are throwing the ball in right?
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If I said, "no" would that confuse you and everyone else? Backhand English is the method for compensation for squirt (cueball deflection). Of three things that can happen due to using english, throw is the least important when talking about Backhand English.

You'll notice he's hitting hard enough to reduce swerve. So, his particular pivot point is and subsequent backhand pivoting is adjusting for the effective squirt (high squirt blended with a bit of throw). So, to say "in essence then, you are throwing the ball in" would be completely missing the importance of the compensation and bringing the conversation backwards.

Fred
 
whitewolf said:
Twisting your cue in the middle of a shot to obtain BHE and fidgiting around gets you out of rhythm, IMHO.
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Please watch the video again. Backhand english users (as defined in these forums for a decade) do not twist their cue in the middle of the shot.

Most BHE users pivot their cue prior to their warm up strokes, either down on the ball or in the air before planting their bridge hand. They don't in general pivot during their strokeing.

There are several people who pivot their backhand during the shot in a method I've dubbed "dynamic backhand english," while other people call it swooping or swerving into the english. That's not what's being discussed by Jaden or Colin.

Fred
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Maybe you meant to say something else, but this statement is plainly false.

If you pivot your cue at your bridge to get it to its final angle (i.e., if you use BHE), then obviously your bridge position determines where the cue ball goes.

pj
chgo
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Pat, I'm not sure you're playing semantics here, but my bridge and my pivot don't have to coincide. Lots of times it does, but often times my bridge length is longer or shorter, whereas my pivot is about the same length.

I have a Meucci that has an effective pivot point over 15". I pivot at 15". I bridge at 10-12". This is standard practice. You don't have to pivot at the bridge length.

Fred
 
I'm was using a Bryan Fisher....

Dead Crab said:
May I ask what type of cue you were using and the location if its pivot point?
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I was using a Bryan Fisher and it's pivot point is between 11-14 inches. There is some variable in pivot points and I haven't personally done a lot of tests on pivot points and am deferring to those more knowledgable on the subject and trusting in them.

I did have a traditional 314 on a predator that I used for a year or two, but I modified it so that it would work with my usual bridge length.

Otherwise I would've demonstrated the difference in the video between LD tech and normal tech.

I had cut off the ferule, drilled out the foam core and added a new tenon and ferule to the 314. This changed its end mass closer to standard and changed its pivot point to about 10"

Jaden
 
Colin Colenso said:
I just noticed this tonight. Shane Van Boeing appears to use BHE for his shot at 48.20.
Click to expand...

He clearly doesn't use BHE for the shot before, and I don't think you can see whether or not he does on this shot. I'm skeptical - why doesn't he use it on all sidespin shots (like the one before)?

pj
chgo
 
I agree with you Colin on it taking quite a bit of practice.

Colin Colenso said:
I just noticed this tonight. Shane Van Boeing appears to use BHE for his shot at 48.20. Drag the slider near to the end of the video to get there quickly and save 100 mb in download.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtGe0FouC6A

I haven't watched the whole clip, so would be interesting to see if he pivots after aim like this regularly.

FWIW WW, I think BHE requires quite a bit of practice otherwise it can be quite distracting to one's game.

Colin
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For all of those who are considering trying BHE for the first time....

BHE requires trusting in your initial aimline even though it will look wrong at first.

It's hard to trust yourself not to swerve your cue at the last second to try and adjust for it looking wrong and will often cause it to not work.

When I was demonstrating it for Joey A, he set up a fairly difficult shotand had me put three tips of outside english on it. Then he tried it and becuase he has a good solid straight stroke it worked for him, but then it became more difficult when he started to pay attention to what it looked like.

This is because until you get used to it, the aim just looks wrong.

The other thing abot BHE is that you have to train yourself to rotate your whole arm in or out depending upon what kind of English you're using and still hold your arm still for proper mechanics on the actual stroke.

Stroking straight through the CB is almost a must for BHE. I've heard of swooping or swiping, but I just don't think that it can be consistent, because I've noticed that the times that I miss it's because I'm pulling my wrist through the shot or trying to force the cue through the shot and it effectively alters the shot.

Jaden.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Isn't the definition of BHE to pivot at your bridge? How do you accomplish this physically?

pj
chgo
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Yes, I pivot at my bridge hand, but that doesn't mean I have to stroke witht that bridge length. That would be awful knowing where I'm supposed to pivot, but restricting myself to not change my bridge length after pivoting.

If you've ever tried FHE, would you pivot about your grip hand and then resign yourself to not be able to move your grip hand? I wouldn't think so.

And then there are the air pivoters.

Fred
 
well BHE is pivoting at the bridge.....

Patrick Johnson said:
Isn't the definition of BHE to pivot at your bridge? How do you accomplish this physically?

pj
chgo
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For BHE to work the pivot point has to be at the bridge length. This is impossible with LD shafts or in some situations. A way of compensating for it is using a combination of FHE (front hand English) and BHE.

So if you know what the pivot point is, you can adjust your bridge hand and or your shooting arm and body so that it is effectively pivoting at the cues pivot point.

So really what BHE is, is a way of adjusting your cue based on the original true, non-english aimline, using whatever method is necessary based on your cues pivot point.

In my opinion because of how well BHE works, it is better NOT to use LD shafts and to find one with a pivot point that is closest to your actual bridge length.

JAden.
 
Bustamante is an air pivoter or a head pivoter.

Cornerman said:
Yes, I pivot at my bridge hand, but that doesn't mean I have to stroke witht that bridge length. That would be awful knowing where I'm supposed to pivot, but restricting myself to not change my bridge length after pivoting.

If you've ever tried FHE, would you pivot about your grip hand and then resign yourself to not be able to move your grip hand? I wouldn't think so.

And then there are the air pivoters.

Fred
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If you watch Bustamante when he shoots, he actually gets down on the shot with BHE already applied. Which probably means that he is doing it in his head as he gets down on the shot.

I've heard people say that he's using a fractional aiming system or what have you, but considering that I learned about BHE from Efren and I know of atleast five other top fillipinos that use it, if you understand the concepts behind it, it makes more sense that he is using BHE.

Jaden
 
Patrick Johnson said:
He clearly doesn't use BHE for the shot before, and I don't think you can see whether or not he does on this shot. I'm skeptical - why doesn't he use it on all sidespin shots (like the one before)?

pj
chgo
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I don't use it on every shot that requires english. Through all the aiming systems I've encountered, some don't require Backhand English when using english. That also means on some shots, I'm not using any "system" whatsoever and don't need to "system it" to get the english. I suspect everyone is like this.

I attended a clinic with Nick Varner where he was clearly using Backhand English on his cross table banks but didn't do any such pivoting on non-bank shots. Same deal. He had no idea what Backhand English was. He said he was "locking in his english." Whatever the name, he was definitely pivoting using his backhand.

Fred
 
Jaden said:
For BHE to work the pivot point has to be at the bridge length.
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This is misleading Jaden, considering most people will read this to mean that your "bridge length" is your final bridge length. In my opinion, this has only added to skepticism.

The pivot point doesn't have to be at the bridge length. The pivot point is only your bridge length in the sense that you're using your bridge hand as a fulcrum. Other than that, "bridge length" is pretty much not related to the pivot point. The fact that many normal cues have a coinciding pivot point and acceptable bridge length is the plus to this system.



Fred
 
yes that is correct....

Patrick Johnson said:
"It depends on the bridge position" is an incomplete statement. You should add: "and the bridge position depends on the pivot point position."

For instance, in the video you use a long bridge (12 inches?). Have you tried BHE with that cue using a 6-inch bridge?

pj
chgo

P.S. I've never said or implied that BHE doesn't work. You misunderstood my comment in the other thread (I've explained it further there).
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That was correct and that was my point in the other thread and with my diagram.

For a low deflection shaft (because its pivot point is completely different) to be used at the same bridge length as a cue that has the pivot point at that length, the aimline has to be adjusted so the bridge is in a different side to side position in relation to the shot.

That changes the effective aimline and also changes the location that the tip is striking relative to that adjusted aimline. So if you end up with the same amount of spin on a shot at the same bridge length with a LD shaft, then its effective distance from center ball is less and you ARE getting more spin with less offset than with a normal shaft.

Now like I've said, I don't think that the extra spin with less effort that a LD shaft provides makes up for the ease of putting as much spin on that ball as you want without significantly altering your chances of making the ball that BHE provides.

Jaden
 
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