I'm Not a Top player but...

[the420trooper]

I am convinced that all champions use aiming systems that is why they are champions. If you know what to look for you can see it when they shoot. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive.

Lol, that's what the aiming system proponents WANT you to think.

Ask Efren, Johnny, Shane, Earl, etc. what aiming system they use, and I suspect they'll look at you like you're an idiot. They'll most likely say something like, "I just KNOW where to hit the ball."

Btw, do you know how to get to Carnegie Hall?

 

[kevpull]

Aiming Systems

Lol, that's what the aiming system proponents WANT you to think.

Ask Efren, Johnny, Shane, Earl, etc. what aiming system they use, and I suspect they'll look at you like you're an idiot. They'll most likely say something like, "I just KNOW where to hit the ball."

Btw, do you know how to get to Carnegie Hall?

No, what they want you to think is that they don't use them...You sound like living proof of that. If you ask them of course they will tell you that they don't use them... You keep living and you will discover that all the champions have them...refined by years of use.

 

[the420trooper]

No, what they want you to think is that they don't use them...You sound like living proof of that. If you ask them of course they will tell you that they don't use them... You keep living and you will discover that all the champions have them...refined by years of use.

"WHOOOSH" is the sound of my point going over your head. If there was an aiming system that really worked, wouldn't everyone use it?

I too, wish there was a magic pill, but I believe that "practice, practice, practice" is the only way to really improve.

 

[Island Drive]

Perhaps not called "aiming" systems.....but there are "alignment" systems in Golf.

I belive pool to be the same....A fundamental part of the game is "alignment"....If your alignment is not consistent...your shotmaking probably is not either.

I think somewhere along the line....pool players got confused with aim and alignment and somehow "aim" became more important than alignment.

This makes sense, yet in pool I've always felt once you walk up to the shot and set your bridge hand on the table the shot is in line to either be made or missed...."when your down your done" this phrase I've used for years while teaching. Then commit 100% and you'll get instant muscle memory feedback. The foundation of this process is you'll learn just as much with your misses as with your makes. KISS

 

[kevpull]

Systems

"WHOOOSH" is the sound of my point going over your head. If there was an aiming system that really worked, wouldn't everyone use it?

I too, wish there was a magic pill, but I believe that "practice, practice, practice" is the only way to really improve.

No you are the one missing the point: "Aiming systems are NOT a magic pill" They add consistency to your game... "practice, practice, practice" (as you yourself said) is what makes the system useful for playing the game. Listen, those champions that have used them with success know what the limitations are...so they use work arounds for those situations where the system is limited...but where the systems are helpful (namely for shot consistency) they rely upon them. If the truth were ever revealed you would be shocked at how many of them use systems. Most of them use more than one...what they do is use the one that best suits the situation at hand. Many of the pros...when you watch their videos, you can see pivot-based systems. If you ever watch a video and you see the shooter cueing off center cue ball...they are probably using a systems. Pivot based systems have been around for decades. There is nothing that seperates the average player from a pro except the pros vast knowledge of the game, the pros many years of experience, and the pros stroke which has been honed by use. Most novices - upon first learning a system will discard the system completely upon encountering system limitations. They find it much easier to pocket balls by feel. The problem with completely relying on feel is that it is subjective - to the table condition, to the lighting conditions, etc. Once a system is reasonably mastered, and i stress reasonably because it takes years to discover all of a systems limitations and to develop work-arounds, at that point, consistency goes way up. Quit using the system at that point and inconsistency will return. Will all this make you a champion in and of itself, NO. But you will get better and better and your game will not "plateau" as quickly.

 

[duckie]

There are no aiming systems, just visualization methods. A aiming systems is used when you shoot a gun with open sights. The systems consists of the target, the front sight and rear sight. If you align all three correctly, you hit the target.

If you are shooting and thinking about how to use whatever method you use to see the shot, you are stuck and will never move beyond this point.

You have not spent enough time at the table to realize that consistent shot making comes from not thinking but just doing. Just seeing what needs to be done without any thought on how to do it.

I wish the truth was told by top players on how they shoot and not someone speculating on what they use.

Ever see the movie "the Last Dragon" about a maritals artist seeking the one true master? In the opening scene as he was going through his training routine, his master was shooting arrows with blue tape on them at him and he would break them with a chop.

Then the master shot one with red tape on it and the marital artist caught it, to which the master asked how did he know that was the arrow with the red tape. The reply, was "I don't know".

The master then reply, "You have reached the final stage, to know without knowing".

This is how shot making is done at the highest level.

Kinda Zenish.

FWIW

 

[sfleinen]

There are no aiming systems, just visualization methods. A aiming systems is used when you shoot a gun with open sights. The systems consists of the target, the front sight and rear sight. If you align all three correctly, you hit the target.

If you are shooting and thinking about how to use whatever method you use to see the shot, you are stuck and will never move beyond this point.

You have not spent enough time at the table to realize that consistent shot making comes from not thinking but just doing. Just seeing what needs to be done without any thought on how to do it.

I wish the truth was told by top players on how they shoot and not someone speculating on what they use.

Ever see the movie "the Last Dragon" about a maritals artist seeking the one true master? In the opening scene as he was going through his training routine, his master was shooting arrows with blue tape on them at him and he would break them with a chop.

Then the master shot one with red tape on it and the marital artist caught it, to which the master asked how did he know that was the arrow with the red tape. The reply, was "I don't know".

The master then reply, "You have reached the final stage, to know without knowing".

This is how shot making is done at the highest level.

Kinda Zenish.

FWIW

duckie:

Actually, Zen-ish is a good thing in this regard. Too many people over-analyze aiming in pool. They forget that they are human, not supercomputers or robots. The single most powerful unit of the human mind is the subconscious -- that part of the mind that stores away knowledge from both successes and failures. But people want to "be in control," so they prevent themselves from tapping into this massive storehouse of knowledge.

Although it got onto the wrong foot initially (and the OP has long since abandoned posting into it), this particular thread has taken on a new, productive life, and some good stuff is currently being discussed on this very topic:

(Start with post #214)
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=201309&page=6

And methinks this is the point that JT (OP in this thread) was trying to make as well.

-Sean

 

[Johnnyt]

duckie:

Actually, Zen-ish is a good thing in this regard. Too many people over-analyze aiming in pool. They forget that they are human, not supercomputers or robots. The single most powerful unit of the human mind is the subconscious -- that part of the mind that stores away knowledge from both successes and failures. But people want to "be in control," so they prevent themselves from tapping into this massive storehouse of knowledge.

Although it got onto the wrong foot initially (and the OP has long since abandoned posting into it), this particular thread has taken on a new, productive life, and some good stuff is currently being discussed on this very topic:

(Start with post #214)
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=201309&page=6

And methinks this is the point that JT (OP in this thread) was trying to make as well.

-Sean

Yes, thank you. That was the point I was trying to make. Johnnyt

 

[Mr. Wiggles]

The science of pool

Books, videos, the diamond system, measuring, geometry and the list goes on and on and on. Its all great stuff. Its important part of everybodys game. Study by all means available. Do this at home, I do my best studying sitting on the throne. Seriously. Its my library. Then take all this knowledge to your game. Its in your head, not layed out on the table. Trust yourself and play instinctively. Hit balls. Hit lots of balls. Play by yourself, pull stuff back and figure things out. Learn some drills. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Ever been in dead stroke? What were you thinking of when you were in dead stroke? Nothing, thats the secret man, lose yourself and let em fly.

 

[12310bch]

All aiming systems are just different paths to wind up at a, "Ghost Ball,"
position of CB and OB. Off course then adjustments have to be made
for spin, speed, friction, etc. But you may as well START at Ghost Ball
and forgo systems to get there.MNSHO :shrug:

 

[poolplayer2093]

While I think that most of the aiming systems are useful up to a point, they are not going to make you a champion. I believe there are many pool players that are like “Bones” on TV. She feels if it can’t be proven it’s not fact. The fact of all aiming systems are that they are based on no spin on the QB. I think we all know that you sometimes need some amount of spin for position on the next shot unless you always play perfect position. Not even top pros play perfect position for every next ball. So now you have to adjust your aiming point for the spin. Adjusting=feel. No matter how you dress it up, or what word you call it you need feel to pocket a lot of shots. Only way to get that perfect feel is to pocket 500 or more balls a day for a long time. Johnnyt

a lot of people way over think the game. i ran into one guy that wanted to talk about what kind of english to use. back hand or (what ever the other one is). the next topic was obviously deflection and aiming systems.

i can't think about all that when i'm playing. i'm busy struggling to pocket balls and get some kind of shape to be thinking about all that techno babble

 

[12310bch]

Then the master shot one with red tape on it and the marital artist caught it, to which the master asked how did he know that was the arrow with the red tape. The reply, was "I don't know".
FWIW

shootin' an 8-ball 7 feet down the rail into a 4 1/4" pocket and you gotta suck it back for shape on the 9 while your opponents squeakin' his chalk
as loud as he can and your hill-hill and it's 5 to 2:00 AM so it's the last
game of the night and with all the other crap your trying to rid your mind
of, you GOTTA be catchin' arrows with red tape.