Improving the break

S

scottjen26

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Frankly I don't work on my break much but have in the past.

For 9-ball, according to break speed app, I'm typically around 24 - 25 mph and can control the cue ball reasonably well at that speed most nights. Any harder and I seem to lose control. I typically break from the side rail, have my cue angled down at the bottom of the cue ball (as many do), then on the backstroke come through more in the center, usually results in a full hit on the 1, bouncing back from the rack and squatting in the middle of the table or just behind. Based on the table and rack I can adjust to different positions on the table, use a softer break, cut break, etc. and have good enough success for now.

Was recently playing 10-ball with someone and broke well but dry most of the night. I tried side rail, off the back rail 1 diamond off center, at or near center, etc, but nothing was working. I tried breaking hard from the table, but I find when my hand is on the table and not supported on the rail my break falls apart, I can't break as hard or as solidly or worse the elevation change causes me to not hit the ball well at all.


So… Any thoughts on how to improve my 10-ball break? I realize I don't have to hit the balls a ton every time, but it occurred to me that I have no idea how to adjust properly (aside for the obvious of trying different spots) when playing 10-ball, and I see most people breaking off the table and I seem to not be as effective that way. Is there something I should be doing to brace my hand to be able to get the same speed and accuracy that I can get off the rail? Are there typical adjustments people make or is it the same as 9-ball, varying positions, speed, etc. until you find the spot? Don't expect to break like Shane without more hours of practice than I have to give, but making a ball once in a while would be nice…

Thanks,
Scott
 
scottjen26 said:
So… Any thoughts on how to improve my 10-ball break?
Click to expand...

Take 2 hours:: rack, break, rack, break, rack, break:: shoot no shots other than the break.

But with each rack and break, identify the point of contact and identify the result. See if there is a particular spot that works better--its not just speed, but precision at work here.
 
The best possible advice for improving your 10-ball break is: watch SVB and learn as much as you can.

FYI, some other advice can be found here:

Regards,
Dave
 
the 10-ball break is so easy...you have to realize theres a physics principle here...speed is not force. we hold our break stick in the same spot to break 10-ball and the balls don't go anywhere. well there's to ways to break in 10-ball, but you have to decide who is going to do all the work, your are or the break cue...if you decide your arm, than move your hand (to which you hold the cue with) to about 2 inch below the TOP of the wrap or where the wrap should be and wrack it hard...at the moment of impact, the impact doesn't have to travel far to absorb in your arm because its higher up...if you decide to let the cue do the work than move your hand to the bottom of the wrap and take and normal hit. the hit should be about a lag speed but instead of back to the short rail, make sure it go back to the center of the table.

Shane and I have the same break, and i make a ball on the break 7-8 out of 10, and cue ball always back to the center of table, and use a close bridge.
 
Houstoer said:
Ideas for best 8 ball break?
Click to expand...

I have two 8 ball breaks that work best for me on a 9 footer...actually, they work pretty good on a barbox, but I haven't shot on a barbox in over 10 years. The standard break is half tip below center ball, very fast and with as much follow through as I can use and still keep the cue straight (pushing the tip "through" the table). I put the cue ball three-four inches left or right of the center of the headstring and aim full ball on the apex ball. It helps to be looking at the rack when you pull the trigger, vice looking at the cueball.

The other is from the side, about three inches from the rail, low outside english, about a full tip or tip and a half. Aim for the second ball in the rack, trying to JUST miss the apex ball. Hit this one about 70-80%. The cue ball will hit the side rail, carom through the rack a second time and push the 8 ball to the side pocket on the same side you're breaking from. Your guaranteed action on the 8 and should sink one or most often two balls. The draw back is you can end up with the cue ball on the foot rail, but almost always have a shot to one of the foot rail corner pockets. The break works so good on a barbox, you'll get accused of cheating!:thumbup:
 
mahalkita4120 said:
the 10-ball break is so easy...you have to realize theres a physics principle here...speed is not force. we hold our break stick in the same spot to break 10-ball and the balls don't go anywhere. well there's to ways to break in 10-ball, but you have to decide who is going to do all the work, your are or the break cue...if you decide your arm, than move your hand (to which you hold the cue with) to about 2 inch below the TOP of the wrap or where the wrap should be and wrack it hard...at the moment of impact, the impact doesn't have to travel far to absorb in your arm because its higher up...if you decide to let the cue do the work than move your hand to the bottom of the wrap and take and normal hit. the hit should be about a lag speed but instead of back to the short rail, make sure it go back to the center of the table.

Shane and I have the same break, and i make a ball on the break 7-8 out of 10, and cue ball always back to the center of table, and use a close bridge.
Click to expand...

Ok my head hurts...... E=MC2 get repealed??? The grip change is all about where in the range of motion the muscle is stronger/quicker.... Lag speed???

I don't think I follow.....

However I think you can get odds all day long that you do not have the same break as Shane......
 
scottjen26 said:
Frankly I don't work on my break much but have in the past.

For 9-ball, according to break speed app, I'm typically around 24 - 25 mph and can control the cue ball reasonably well at that speed most nights. Any harder and I seem to lose control. I typically break from the side rail, have my cue angled down at the bottom of the cue ball (as many do), then on the backstroke come through more in the center, usually results in a full hit on the 1, bouncing back from the rack and squatting in the middle of the table or just behind. Based on the table and rack I can adjust to different positions on the table, use a softer break, cut break, etc. and have good enough success for now.

Was recently playing 10-ball with someone and broke well but dry most of the night. I tried side rail, off the back rail 1 diamond off center, at or near center, etc, but nothing was working. I tried breaking hard from the table, but I find when my hand is on the table and not supported on the rail my break falls apart, I can't break as hard or as solidly or worse the elevation change causes me to not hit the ball well at all.


So… Any thoughts on how to improve my 10-ball break? I realize I don't have to hit the balls a ton every time, but it occurred to me that I have no idea how to adjust properly (aside for the obvious of trying different spots) when playing 10-ball, and I see most people breaking off the table and I seem to not be as effective that way. Is there something I should be doing to brace my hand to be able to get the same speed and accuracy that I can get off the rail? Are there typical adjustments people make or is it the same as 9-ball, varying positions, speed, etc. until you find the spot? Don't expect to break like Shane without more hours of practice than I have to give, but making a ball once in a while would be nice…

Thanks,
Scott
Click to expand...


Scott I was given some advice on Friday night while I was playing the new manager taking over my local pool room about the break which he got from a scottish pro & this is what he was told:

1. Line up the shot as if you were breaking for the game of snooker, make sure your feet are well balanced preferably with you back foot at a 45 degree angle.

2. Make sure your hands are in the same position on the cue everytime as the more you repeat the same grip & stance muscle memory will soon take over.

3. Get as low to the cueball as you can by using the cue as an imaginary straight line between the cueball & rack. (DO NOT stand over the cueball as an upright stance is not necessary, not yet anyway).

4. Look from the cueball to the rack about twice to get your sight line right, after that focus on nothing else other than the cueball & where you will strike it as you already know where in the rack it is going to hit i.e square on the 1 ball.

5. As you follow through this is where you slide your weight from you back foot to your front foot by following through & up into an upright position.

6. Hit the rack as hard as you can!.

If you follow steps 1 through 5 to the letter everytime you will the fundamentals to be confident enough that cueball will only hit dead centre of the 1 ball so power of break essentially becomes irrelevant as you overtime become used to hitting the sweet spot due in part to practice & also muscle memory.

Hope this helps, as I said it was a scottish pro that gave this advice you know he knows what he's talking about, I'm not just trying to spin you a line.
 
JMW said:
Anyone tried the BreakRak? If so, did it help?
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The BreakRak is a good piece of equipment to practice breaking but it primarily helps you practice A) making solid contact on the apex ball or cut breaking and, B) squating the cue ball.

Since the OP already stated he does both of these well the BreakRak won't really help him. It won't tell you if you are making balls on the break and/or getting shape on the one ball for 9 and 10 Ball because it doesn't show you where the one ball would have ended up.

------

If you generally have a good break then it is entirely possible the table was just breaking tough. Of course that doesn't mean you can't necessarily find a good spot to make balls from, but some tables just break tough from the usual spots. Practically all the tables at my league venue are like that for everyone. But if you can come on here and claim you break 10 Ball like Shane does then it is probably the table. :rolleyes:;)
 
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Thanks for the replies so far.

I've watched a lot of SVB's matches, he's one of my favorite players to watch rhythm-wise. He gets a great amount of power with his bridge hand on the table - when I try that, I think my hand must move or something, often I hit the cueball off center or even hit the table because I'm using the same stroke I use as when breaking from the side or top rail.

I have Joe Tucker's racking secrets, haven't watched the section on 10-ball, I wasn't as concerned about racking patterns as what to do when you are hitting them solid but nothing is going in. I see far fewer people breaking soft in 10-ball like you can in 9-ball, but maybe I'm missing something.

Certainly when playing the ghost, or league formats like Pool300, or just playing a normal match, making 1 - 2 balls on the break is a HUGE advantage over someone who isn't breaking as well, as evidenced in the recent TAR match with SVB and Alex. Conversely, I was playing fairly well, especially as I got into the match, but couldn't get anything going because I was making nothing on the break and spreading them nicely, just hoping my opponent would make a mistake so I could get back to the table.

Will continue to work on it as I have time and check back here for more advice.

Scott
 
One nite in a hotel bar.....

Ok, Here we go, one nite in a hotel bar after a national tourney, I meet one of the top 5 players in the world. After maney bereravges I finaly got him to share some secrets about the break. Here are a few things to concider.

1) If you throw a baseball 90mpn while your on the ground the ball will travel 90mph but if you are standing ontop of a train traveling 90mph the ball will be traveling 180 mph.You have to figure out this part on your own. that is clue 1

2) The ball will start to lose energy after it leaves your cue. energy is what will move the balls in the rack but the cue ball will lose alot less energy if its airbourn. Supper slow motion shows that with a pro break, he makes the cue actully float in the air and its the direction of the cues path that determinds the direction and amount of energy that is transferd. example. if the cue hits the head ball comming down the energy will explode in different directions , not just lateraly as when you slide the cue ball as in a normal break. in the same slow motion you can see the head ball jump off the table forcing the energy to the remaing balls in the rack . Now if youve ever seen a guy break like a gorrilla and send the cue ball 2 feet streight up in the air and fall back down tothe center of the table and say thats a perfect break. That is the worst thing that can happen casue the energy has been waisted on sending the cue streight up cause the center of the cue ball was above the center of the object ball thus not transfering the energy to the rack. that is clue #2

start thinking about this stuff and you will have a bettter break than you ever thought. by the way, the only true way to practice the break is to put the balls in the same order in the rack evry time and then log final positon of the ball every single time before yo rerack. after 100 breaks youll see a patern as to what if happening and you can make an adjustment.
 
The BreakRAK is a training tool. It doesn't do anything & it has no magic. The person doing the practicing is doing all the work & that person is seeking the magic in them.

Using the BreakRAK gives the person loads of feedback. By marking a cueball, with an indexing/orienting mark, the player can see where the cue tip struck the cueball, showing a degree of accuracy in the stroke. The player can also see where the cueball strikes the leadball or the second Ball in an 8-Ball situation. This information can be used to calculate where the lead ball goes & accuracy or error in the delivery..

Joe Tucker & I wrote an instructional book, titled The GREAT Break Shot, mapping the direction of the cueball after impact and the direction of the leadball & other balls out of the rack. This info can be used with a rack of balls or a BreakRAK. Learning this knowledge is important.

To use a BreakRAK or a Rack of Balls.... that is the question.! 747 Pilots learn on flight simulators, not real airplanes. But, at some point, the real thing comes into the equation. Using a rack of balls to learn with is OK & that is better than nothing. The reason that learning from a Rack of Balls is difficult to impossible is for this reason alone. >>>> The Pool Balls are not perfectly round & most are infinitesimally smaller or large in diameter. This creates a situation that is referred to as a "Variable". You can put a perfect delivery into a rack of balls & the balls won't go in the pockets. At the same time you can deliver an errant delivery & 4 balls go in. What did you learn from those two situations... you don't have a clue about what happened & neither do I.

However, using a Tool to practice & learn how to make good accurate delivery is a good start in the quest for a good break shot. But, it is only the first stage & it is an important one. When you have honed your skills on the practice Table, you can easily be consistent in the arena of competition.

Good Luck to all... no exceptions.
 
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scottjen26 said:
Thanks for the replies so far.

I've watched a lot of SVB's matches, he's one of my favorite players to watch rhythm-wise. He gets a great amount of power with his bridge hand on the table - when I try that, I think my hand must move or something, often I hit the cueball off center or even hit the table because I'm using the same stroke I use as when breaking from the side or top rail.

I have Joe Tucker's racking secrets, haven't watched the section on 10-ball, I wasn't as concerned about racking patterns as what to do when you are hitting them solid but nothing is going in. I see far fewer people breaking soft in 10-ball like you can in 9-ball, but maybe I'm missing something.

Certainly when playing the ghost, or league formats like Pool300, or just playing a normal match, making 1 - 2 balls on the break is a HUGE advantage over someone who isn't breaking as well, as evidenced in the recent TAR match with SVB and Alex. Conversely, I was playing fairly well, especially as I got into the match, but couldn't get anything going because I was making nothing on the break and spreading them nicely, just hoping my opponent would make a mistake so I could get back to the table.

Will continue to work on it as I have time and check back here for more advice.

Scott
Click to expand...

RS 1 is not very good for the 10 ball break but RS2 is all about it.
 
JMW said:
Anyone tried the BreakRak? If so, did it help?
Click to expand...

Yes. It is a phenomenal piece of equipment. Best thing you could ever do for your break. My understanding is that Shane has spent many long hours hitting the BreakRak.

I have it...bought it right when it came out. LOVE IT.

KMRUNOUT
 
scottjen26 said:
but I find when my hand is on the table and not supported on the rail my break falls apart, I can't break as hard or as solidly ...

I see most people breaking off the table and I seem to not be as effective that way. Is there something I should be doing to brace my hand to be able to get the same speed and accuracy that I can get off the rail?
Click to expand...

In 10 ball, there is just no *good* option except to learn how to bridge on the table. This will help your 8 ball break as well (and I believe your 9 ball break too.)

For me, the bridge is not especially different than on a regular shot. A good solid closed bridge works well. Pretend that the bridge hand is bolted to the table. I envision that my bridge hand is like a block of stone attached to the slate. I stroke right through and try to have little concern for the well being of my bridge hand. I have burn marks on my bridge hand...one is right on the back of my thumb knuckle closes to my hand, and one is on the index finger joint closest to the tip (where it contacts the cue). This is from the friction of the finished part of the shaft and sometimes the butt rubbing against these areas. The idea is that my follow through is about that long.

I doubt you actually have a problem with the stability of your bridge. If you can shoot at all, and in particular, if you can deliver a lively draw stroke, then your bridge is fine. Just use that bridge, but DON'T let it move or leave the table. I generally have some of my weight on my bridge hand. Visualize the bridge being dead, made of iron, and bolted to the table.

I think the Racking Secrets 2 DVD has an excellent section talking about how to follow through the break, and the different methods for achieving this. I highly recommend it for the issues you describe.

And yes, try out the break rak.

I have never seen anyone that I thought had a great break have trouble breaking from the table. Not saying it doesn't happen, I just haven't seen it yet. And for what it's worth, I can't come close to my best accuracy OR power from the side rail. I break much better in every way from the table.

Hope it helps,

KMRUNOUT
 
Thanks for the further replies.

Going to play tonight, have to pay more attention to what I'm doing differently when bridging from the table. I just know I've never preferred breaking from the table unless I was hitting a cut or soft break. Anything with power and I feel like my strike is not as accurate.

I think it simply has to do with the elevation difference, when breaking from the rail I am aiming almost at the bottom of the cue ball, as I've seen many pros do as well, I pull back smoothly and on the way through I'm assuming I am dropping my hand down almost in a slight circular motion and coming through the ball hard while transferring weight etc. When trying that same ingrained motion from the table, the angles are different and I feel like I'm going to hit my stick on the table (and sometimes do). I'm guessing that results in me altering my stroke or holding back or flinching somehow. Have to pay more attention, maybe video it tonight.

I know Scott Lee and others will say that you don't need all the extra body motion to achieve a powerful break, and I agree fundamentally, but this is just how I developed my break. I tried just delivering a solid strike with a "normal" force shot, like you would with a power draw or power stun shot for instance, but didn't have any better luck. As one poster said, could just be the tables are breaking tough (my opponent, a good player, wasn't having much better luck), even if true then per my original question I still need to figure out what to change to start making balls - angle of approach, speed, etc. Joe's RS2 DVD might be a good idea as well.

I have good success moving around and figuring it out in 9-ball just not in 10-ball. It's just that I've seen most 10-ball players break from the table, and Shane and others certainly don't have an issue with it, they aren't bridging off the back rail...

Scott
 
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