In Defense of Pro Pool Players

[BasementDweller]

I think this thread is long overdue.

When it comes to professional pool players, there's a band wagon that nearly everyone has jumped on. It's the all professional pool players are whiners band wagon. If you sit inside this band wagon long enough you hear the same conversation over and over again about how ungrateful these players are. How none of them are willing to do anything for their careers. How they are all just a bunch of self-centered hustlers that will complain about anything and everything if they aren't cashing a check.

Yeah we all get it -- they could have chosen a different line of work. They could have all put down their cue and got a 9 to 5 job like the rest of us. But they're really not like the rest of us are they?

They've really been cursed in a sense. They have taken up a game that infused them with an all-consuming passion. A passion that drove them to fire balls into pockets for hours, months, and years on end. Long after most of us gave up and moved on to other things. Not them - they kept playing; they kept practicing; they kept competing. They kept being teased with that dangling carrot. First it was the PBT. Then it was the IPT. Then on a smaller scale you had tours like the Seminole Tour and others that kept their hopes alive. Not to mention Bonus Ball. You mix in the odd high paying tournament here and there and you realize there has always been hope on the horizon for the professional pool player.

In the end, it just hasn't worked out for them.

How unbelievably frustrating must that be for all but a handful of them? I can't even begin to imagine it.

So when professional players complain about tournament payouts maybe we should sympathize just a wee bit more with their plight. Telling them to put down a cue and get a job is way easier said than done. I've been guilty of saying such things in the past but if I played as good as the top dogs I'm not so sure I would be able to put down my cue. I really don't know what I'd do anymore but my hunch is I'd probably play until my arm fell off.

I think another part of the reason I've become more sympathetic to their plight is I think I just appreciate excellence more than I used to, no matter what the endeavor is. So when I see someone hone their craft to the point of perfection and they still can't reap the benefits of all the work they put in, I just naturally feel sorry for them.

Like us mere mortals, professional pool players come in all shapes and sizes. Many of them are great guys. Many of them aren't, but all of them have had to travel down a long road with not a whole lot to show for all their hard work. Maybe it’s time we cut them a little slack.

 

[bdorman]

It's The Artist Syndrome: a person falls in love with an art (painting, dance, music, pool, chess, ...) and can't imagine doing anything else with their life. They practice 14 hours a day perfecting their skills, only to find out that they can't make a decent living.

If you think pool players are bad, try listening to musicians. According to them, the world is screwed up because the world doesn't appreciate their music. In defense of musicians, at least pool players have an objective measurement -- did I win the tournament? The success of a musician is more often dependent on subjective measurements since the audience has to "like" their music. No one trashes successful musicians as much as unsuccessful musicians: "He sold out!" "She's gone corporate!" and so on.

 

[jasonlaus]

I think this thread is long overdue.

When it comes to professional pool players, there's a band wagon that nearly everyone has jumped on. It's the all professional pool players are whiners band wagon. If you sit inside this band wagon long enough you hear the same conversation over and over again about how ungrateful these players are. How none of them are willing to do anything for their careers. How they are all just a bunch of self-centered hustlers that will complain about anything and everything if they aren't cashing a check.

Yeah we all get it -- they could have chosen a different line of work. They could have all put down their cue and got a 9 to 5 job like the rest of us. But they're really not like the rest of us are they?

They've really been cursed in a sense. They have taken up a game that infused them with an all-consuming passion. A passion that drove them to fire balls into pockets for hours, months, and years on end. Long after most of us gave up and moved on to other things. Not them - they kept playing; they kept practicing; they kept competing. They kept being teased with that dangling carrot. First it was the PBT. Then it was the IPT. Then on a smaller scale you had tours like the Seminole Tour and others that kept their hopes alive. Not to mention Bonus Ball. You mix in the odd high paying tournament here and there and you realize there has always been hope on the horizon for the professional pool player.

In the end, it just hasn't worked out for them.

How unbelievably frustrating must that be for all but a handful of them? I can't even begin to imagine it.

So when professional players complain about tournament payouts maybe we should sympathize just a wee bit more with their plight. Telling them to put down a cue and get a job is way easier said than done. I've been guilty of saying such things in the past but if I played as good as the top dogs I'm not so sure I would be able to put down my cue. I really don't know what I'd do anymore but my hunch is I'd probably play until my arm fell off.

I think another part of the reason I've become more sympathetic to their plight is I think I just appreciate excellence more than I used to, no matter what the endeavor is. So when I see someone hone their craft to the point of perfection and they still can't reap the benefits of all the work they put in, I just naturally feel sorry for them.

Like us mere mortals, professional pool players come in all shapes and sizes. Many of them are great guys. Many of them aren't, but all of them have had to travel down a long road with not a whole lot to show for all their hard work. Maybe it’s time we cut them a little slack.

They're the only ones that can change their lives. Like you said, we all put our cues down and got a job that would pay the bills. It's not our fault they won't do the same.

Do I wish they all earned a living? Of course I do, but most don't.
so either change the situation (get a job) or quit whining! It's up to them, the world doesn't owe them anything.

 

[KRJ]

Pretty broad generalization.

Yet, I do recall MANY folks coming on here that were pissed off the pro's did NOT get paid from the US Open and we took Berry to task for it.

And most here support better tourneys, with better payouts, etc. etc. I would think the "knockers" of pro players are in the minority, not the majority.

 

[krupa]

To echo jasonlaus a little bit, the state of pro pool is really in the players' hands right now. The players have to do more to promote themselves and the game to get people interested in what happens at a tournament. Once people start caring, they will/may start paying to watch and then the momentum builds. But right now, just showing up, playing, and disappearing until the next tournament isn't going to do them any good.

 

[SJDinPHX]

How unbelievably frustrating it must be, for all but a handful of them.....

.....I think another part of the reason I've become more sympathetic to their plight is I think I just appreciate excellence more than I used to, no matter what the endeavor is. So when I see someone hone their craft to the point of perfection and they still can't reap the benefits of all the work they put in, I just naturally feel sorry for them.

Like us mere mortals, professional pool players come in all shapes and sizes. Many of them are great guys. Many of them aren't, but all of them have had to travel down a long road with not a whole lot to show for all their hard work. Maybe it’s time we cut them a little slack.

Great Post BD,..You made some very good points...Like me, you tend to get a little 'wordsy' ! ...Your last few paragraphs, would have summed it all up very nicely !

 

[macguy]

I think this thread is long overdue.

When it comes to professional pool players, there's a band wagon that nearly everyone has jumped on. It's the all professional pool players are whiners band wagon. If you sit inside this band wagon long enough you hear the same conversation over and over again about how ungrateful these players are. How none of them are willing to do anything for their careers. How they are all just a bunch of self-centered hustlers that will complain about anything and everything if they aren't cashing a check.

Yeah we all get it -- they could have chosen a different line of work. They could have all put down their cue and got a 9 to 5 job like the rest of us. But they're really not like the rest of us are they?

They've really been cursed in a sense. They have taken up a game that infused them with an all-consuming passion. A passion that drove them to fire balls into pockets for hours, months, and years on end. Long after most of us gave up and moved on to other things. Not them - they kept playing; they kept practicing; they kept competing. They kept being teased with that dangling carrot. First it was the PBT. Then it was the IPT. Then on a smaller scale you had tours like the Seminole Tour and others that kept their hopes alive. Not to mention Bonus Ball. You mix in the odd high paying tournament here and there and you realize there has always been hope on the horizon for the professional pool player.

In the end, it just hasn't worked out for them.

How unbelievably frustrating must that be for all but a handful of them? I can't even begin to imagine it.

So when professional players complain about tournament payouts maybe we should sympathize just a wee bit more with their plight. Telling them to put down a cue and get a job is way easier said than done. I've been guilty of saying such things in the past but if I played as good as the top dogs I'm not so sure I would be able to put down my cue. I really don't know what I'd do anymore but my hunch is I'd probably play until my arm fell off.

I think another part of the reason I've become more sympathetic to their plight is I think I just appreciate excellence more than I used to, no matter what the endeavor is. So when I see someone hone their craft to the point of perfection and they still can't reap the benefits of all the work they put in, I just naturally feel sorry for them.

Like us mere mortals, professional pool players come in all shapes and sizes. Many of them are great guys. Many of them aren't, but all of them have had to travel down a long road with not a whole lot to show for all their hard work. Maybe it’s time we cut them a little slack.

The same can be said about probably dozens of other sports. From shooting to archery to swimming to gymnastics and so on. Heck people can spent upwards of $100,000 training for the olympics. Win a medal and that is it.

There is no money to be made playing games, nor should one expect to make a living playing games. Maybe in rare cases or if you are in a sport that has a professional tour such as golf or tennis and even then only a fraction of a percent will ever make anything.. The rest are in the same boat as pool. It is not a profession, just a pastime.

 

[lost]

What a surprise that hanging around pool halls all day during your youth isn't a good idea....this has been true forever.
On the other hand they can all fall back on their college degrees like a lot of other "sportsman" do. Most of them did further their education right?

 

[West Point 1987]

Good defense...although I'm not sure what needs defending. I'm with those that hope the "professional pool player" never goes away. I love watching pool played at the highest possible level. That said, there really never has been a viable career to be had in playing pool, so a choice was made early on to forego a viable income in favor of gambling and scuffling after low-cashing events. It is what it is. If you want to have a family and provide for them, know whether or not your lights will turn on when you hit the switch, etc., then playing pool 8 hours a day every single day may not be a viable "career choice". I've never called pro pool players whiners and don't blame them for pushing for a well run tour with some real cash available for more of the field. But until someone comes up with a model that works that way, then playing "professional pool" remains a choice that won't ever amount to financial security.

 

[CJ Wiley]

wishing to have had the courage to create a passionate destiny

I think this thread is long overdue.

When it comes to professional pool players, there's a band wagon that nearly everyone has jumped on. It's the all professional pool players are whiners band wagon. If you sit inside this band wagon long enough you hear the same conversation over and over again about how ungrateful these players are. How none of them are willing to do anything for their careers. How they are all just a bunch of self-centered hustlers that will complain about anything and everything if they aren't cashing a check.

Yeah we all get it -- they could have chosen a different line of work. They could have all put down their cue and got a 9 to 5 job like the rest of us. But they're really not like the rest of us are they?

They've really been cursed in a sense. They have taken up a game that infused them with an all-consuming passion. A passion that drove them to fire balls into pockets for hours, months, and years on end. Long after most of us gave up and moved on to other things. Not them - they kept playing; they kept practicing; they kept competing. They kept being teased with that dangling carrot. First it was the PBT. Then it was the IPT. Then on a smaller scale you had tours like the Seminole Tour and others that kept their hopes alive. Not to mention Bonus Ball. You mix in the odd high paying tournament here and there and you realize there has always been hope on the horizon for the professional pool player.

In the end, it just hasn't worked out for them.

How unbelievably frustrating must that be for all but a handful of them? I can't even begin to imagine it.

So when professional players complain about tournament payouts maybe we should sympathize just a wee bit more with their plight. Telling them to put down a cue and get a job is way easier said than done. I've been guilty of saying such things in the past but if I played as good as the top dogs I'm not so sure I would be able to put down my cue. I really don't know what I'd do anymore but my hunch is I'd probably play until my arm fell off.

I think another part of the reason I've become more sympathetic to their plight is I think I just appreciate excellence more than I used to, no matter what the endeavor is. So when I see someone hone their craft to the point of perfection and they still can't reap the benefits of all the work they put in, I just naturally feel sorry for them.

Like us mere mortals, professional pool players come in all shapes and sizes. Many of them are great guys. Many of them aren't, but all of them have had to travel down a long road with not a whole lot to show for all their hard work. Maybe it’s time we cut them a little slack.

Remember, the greatest influences on the world never took money for their work.

It's better to do what you love without compensation than be stuck in a job that you hate, wishing to have had the courage to create a passionate destiny...with the realization that it is now too late. 'The Game is our Teacher'

 

[TWOFORPOOL]

In defense of Pro Pool Players

I remember a saying that "money won is worth twice as much money earned" from a pool movie. A lot of these Pros choose not to work because they just don't want to work. Gambling at pool by going on the road is a blast and you set your own hours when to play. I went on the road for about 2 months with a veteran pool player and beating somebody out of their money in a place you have never been before and getting out of there with your head still attached is the biggest rush I have ever had.

I see a lot of barking going all by pros where the want to bet 30k, 40k and up. Most of these players are getting staked and bark because they have nothing to loose and everything to gain and I can only imagine what kind of rush that can bring. The roller coaster ride of a pro has to be very difficult in todays world.

I would like to see a pro tour in the USA again. These pros we talk about have a great talent that can't be shown to its fullest because there isn't a pro tour. This is really sad. There are some small tours being created by a couple of the pros (Oscar & Scott) and I hope they can blossom into a bigger tour in the next few years.

 

[CJ Wiley]

staying at a nice hotel with a pocket full of money by the end of the night.

I remember a saying that "money won is worth twice as much money earned" from a pool movie. A lot of these Pros choose not to work because they just don't want to work. Gambling at pool by going on the road is a blast and you set your own hours when to play. I went on the road for about 2 months with a veteran pool player and beating somebody out of their money in a place you have never been before and getting out of there with your head still attached is the biggest rush I have ever had.

I see a lot of barking going all by pros where the want to bet 30k, 40k and up. Most of these players are getting staked and bark because they have nothing to loose and everything to gain and I can only imagine what kind of rush that can bring. The roller coaster ride of a pro has to be very difficult in todays world.

I would like to see a pro tour in the USA again. These pros we talk about have a great talent that can't be shown to its fullest because there isn't a pro tour. This is really sad. There are some small tours being created by a couple of the pros (Oscar & Scott) and I hope they can blossom into a bigger tour in the next few years.

That's right, without a pro tour it's not fair to judge people as being "pro players".

The fact is, if you put football, baseball, basketball, tennis, or golf pros in the same situaton as pool players they would be even worse off.....and their attitudes would be much more negative.

Pool players have been trained to survive, and have the experiences to back this up.

I've said many times that someone could drop me off in the middle of a city where no one knows me with $20 and I'd end up staying at a nice hotel with a pocket full of money by the end of the night.

This doesn't just go for me, it's accurate for most "professional" pool players.

 

[Ron Swanson]

It's just the market. When the market's bad, nobody cares, and everyone pleases themselves. When it's good, professionalism is worth the effort. Today's pros are no more culpable for the current malaise than the rest of us.



Oh, and Ooo, america is so cruel to its own! (repeat to fade, pass sick bucket.)

 

[macguy]

That's right, without a pro tour it's not fair to judge people as being "pro players".

The fact is, if you put football, baseball, basketball, tennis, or golf pros in the same situaton as pool players they would be even worse off.....and their attitudes would be much more negative.

Pool players have been trained to survive, and have the experiences to back this up.

I've said many times that someone could drop me off in the middle of a city where no one knows me with $20 and I'd end up staying at a nice hotel with a pocket full of money by the end of the night.

This doesn't just go for me, it's accurate for most "professional" pool players.

You would not have to go back very far to find players of other sports making no money. Yogi Berra worked at a bowling alley off season. He made little money as a player even playing on a World Series winning teams.

Actors have it real bad. Few ever make any money. Even many who we think made money didn't. Jerry Mathers made $500. a week for Leave it to Beaver.

The beverly Hillbillies actors made about the same except for Buddy Ebsen who made the most around $1500.00 a week. When it was all over none had anything to show for it.

Now they have residuals if they are lucky but not back then. You do what you do for a living for other reasons then money. If the money comes all the better. Will pool players ever make any money, probably not. They don't really have a product that anyone wants. They are delusional to think otherwise.

 

[jasonlaus]

I respect the gambler and would rather watch "action" any day of the week as opposed to tourney play.
I love pool because of the action, I'm just in a place where the action for myself doesn't matter anymore

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Yeah, I know. We are nothing but Parasites to certain supposed Pro Players.

Has anyone considered how much damage that one statement has the potential to have caused Pro Pool, regardless if it was later recanted?

Other than learning lessons from being a member of AZB for a few years now, that one was the straw for myself. Never a future penny out of my pocket will become a donation if it involves a Pro Player.

Yep, the Starving Artist Syndrome.

The players have to do more to promote themselves and the game to get people interested in what happens at a tournament. Once people start caring, they will/may start paying to watch and then the momentum builds. But right now, just showing up, playing, and disappearing until the next tournament isn't going to do them any good.

Krup, the second post that you have made lately that has been excellent in my opinion.

To second this in a way, something that I have typed before 2 weeks ago.

The post made by Ray Poitras re an experience he had re a Pro Player that requested full sponsorship in the 4 Bears Tourney.

What are you willing to do for your sponsorship in full. Teach, give demonstrations? The answer. 'Nothing".

I believe that we, as players would be willing to get behind the game and Pro players again. We just have to see that they are willing to be the first ones to try and do something for themselves first. Then, the rest will follow.

I would then, be more than happy to recant my statement in this thread re future donations.

Shakespear's main theme for many plays.

"Man is the Master of his own Destiny".

 

[mmktierney]

And you guys wonder why the Europeans are winning the Masconi Cup..... and the haters come here in mass when Shane comes up short .ponting out."Over There He Can't Win", you seem happy about our players failing. You tell them they are foolish for doing what they love.....then ***** like little girls when they don"t bring the "Cup" or trophy home to the U.S. of A ....I guess the support they get here...like this thread is just not appreciated enough by them. So much negative B S. well... I will support them as best I can...I'm dead money, I play in tournament.s that I can no longer win....and I love to see these guys play so good....I hope they never read the shyt that people say about them on this site........you are a group of like minded negative people that have found each other. Enjoyed meeting you. Now let's dissect another one....maybe we will figure out why he plays pool and doesn't work....

 

[PINKLADY]

....In the end, it just hasn't worked out for them.
....I just naturally feel sorry for them.
....but all of them have had to travel down a long road with not a whole lot to show for all their hard work. Maybe it’s time we cut them a little slack.

the operative word being "work". cause i thought they "played" pool?
granted, the best of the best deserve respect for their God-given talent. but don't confuse "talent" with "ability" (to survive).

your post has merit. so let me throw you this 180 degree scenario:

you have revered ALL pros. you have your favorites. you bet $10K on a match. your boy loses. and then you find out that he dumped/saved, because he needed to pay his bills. how does that make you feel?

Pretty broad generalization.

Yet, I do recall MANY folks coming on here that were pissed off the pro's did NOT get paid from the US Open and we took Berry to task for it....

i need to add to this - as far as i know (and i could be wrong), but ONLY ONE PRO CAME TO THE AID of Quan Do.

 

[JohnnyP]

15 year old girl with a talent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0WLA0BKxOc

 

[SJDinPHX]

Remember, the greatest influences on the world never took money for their work. <--And you are basing this 'gem of wisdom' on what ????

It's better to do what you love without compensation than be stuck in a job that you hate, wishing to have had the courage to create a passionate destiny <--Wow ! pretty deep stuff there ! ...with the realization that it is now too late. 'The Game is our Teacher'

These could possibly be the most careless, 'self-promoting', and unfounded statements you have ever made !
..Just because it may have worked for you, with your 'God-given' talent, does not mean it will work for the average young person, who may look up to your success at the game, thinking it is easily attainable !

You are basically telling them to ignore all the 'sensible' advice they are getting from their parents, and other well meaning adults, and just blindly 'follow their dreams', in something as unstable as a 'career' in pool ? (or any other game, for that matter)...That is laughable at best, horrible advice at worst ! :sorry:

You are taking an ill-advised "Rhea" mentality, and trying to justify, and glamorize it ! (its not working for her either, is it ?)..Are you saying youngsters should "follow their dreams" and turn their back on education, and a strong work ethic ?..Doesn't this fly in the face of reality ?..

If I were a parent, looking over the shoulder of my kid, (at their most formative age) reading your words,..I would take steps to see, that you would never have the opportunity to taint their minds again !....Stick to TOI, CJ..It is harmless compared to some of your 'lessons' on morality ! :frown: Common sense, and proven logic..will ALWAYS be "the teacher"!.. (Unless, of course you prefer an unemployed 'pool bum', and his girlfriend living with you, until you croak !) :sorry: