In Defense of Pro Pool Players

[Blue Hog ridr]

Empathy. Living in another persons World. Kinda like walking a mile in another persons shoes.

You do know that this is just a saying, right. As in, try to understand where I am coming from.

Well, what if my Opinion is, I have watched you walk many miles in your own shoes. You have your head in the clouds and are hanging in limbo. Excuse me if I don't want to walk the same path as you do.

But, it is a free world, continue on.

Besides, you don't put Febreeze in your Nikes. They stink and I don't want to put them on my feet.

Ya know. You have no doubt heard that God, Our Creator has given us Free Will, to make our own choices and do as we wish.

Perfectly fine. Don't impose your Free Will on my Free Will.

Also, the Wican Rede.

An it harm none do what ye will.

In other words, like the Americans like to say. Don't Tread On Me.

 

[JoeyA]

Slack........................Respect..........

I've read all of the posts in this thread and threw in a kudo to one poster and thought that I would just leave this thread alone but my time is limited and I might not have a chance to say this at another time. (I'm fine, just getting old).

While I agree with the originator of this thread, everyone has the option of thinking, saying and doing just about whatever they please. Just remember, pro or not, you reap what you sow.

False respect and false confidence have a lot in common as neither have been earned. The point being that respect has to be earned.

I give every person I meet the opportunity to earn their own respect, not just the professional pool players. I too work hard to earn my own respect from my peers, customers and those who don't know me well enough to make a decision about the kind of man I am.

I have met many pro players who I would be happy to break bread with and yes, there are a few that I would choose to skip a meal with. But even for those that I keep my distance from, I empathize and try to see the decency in everyone. The pool world is a tough, cruel world but life in general is tough for most of us that haven't been blessed with its riches. I take a lot of my perspective from my parents who were extremely poor and denied the opportunity of formal education. They lived and worked their entire lives in poverty and NOT ONCE did I see them stoop so low as to disrespect another human being for sport and even when they might be justified, they usually bit their tongue in criticizing others. They toiled their lives away at menial jobs, raising 6 children between them and still walked with their head held high in this world and had the respect of those who were fortunate enough to look beyond the curtain of poverty. To those who were even less fortunate financially than they were, there was always a kindness shown that seems to be absent from a lot of today's world.

I don't know if they were an exception but I consider myself fortunate, having had the opportunity to be reasonably educated and having had a modicum of success in life.

In his late sixties and even into his seventies, my dad worked as a security guard, earning just above minimum wage on the river front here in New Orleans, eagerly awaiting EVERY holiday to work because it paid time and a half. A couple of times I went to visit him where he worked as a security guard when I was still forming my perspective about this world (16-17 years of age) and looked around at the cold, windy, desolate sheds that housed all of the imported goods that came into the Port of New Orleans. There was everything right there in front of him, electronics, household goods, food, clothing and just about anything you could name AND NEVER a soul around, not even a custom's agent. I wondered in my mind why it never occurred to him to partake of the aplenty right before his eyes and provide his family with some much needed relief. As the years went by and I matured enough to realize that real respect is EARNED and that's what my mom and dad taught me. They held their head high and treated others who would know them with that same respect unless treated otherwise. If they were treated otherwise, they would simply avoid those people in the future and say little. For the most part, that too has become my way.

I don't know if there is anything to be learned from my life's experience or not but I thought it might be appropriate to share this small window of my life.

JoeyA

 

[CJ Wiley]

Besides a police uniform, the suit/tie gets the most immediate respect

[/B]

I think just the opposite nowadays. With the internet, and all the camera phones and the facebook and on and on, the immature actions of many are starting to change (body cams on police are proof) and the wording in the BCAPL rule book is a sign that the mind set of the next generation of players will change.

Adults that act like children are only being enabled by letting em ''have slack''.

To me, it's even more important NOW to ratchet down childish behavior and such, and have them act and DRESS ALL THE TIME, like a professional. The last generation of great players, looked sharp and into doing so gave more value to their pecking order in life. Could you imagine going to a car dealership to buy a new car and the guy hadn't shaved, was wearing torn jeans and had a ball cap on, is that good for business? If ya wanna be treated like a pro, at least LOOK like one.

I bet your remember the dinner we had pictured below, don't you Island Drive? too bad Larry Liscotti is no longer with us, he was a character.

As you remember in the PCA we agreed to always wear a suit and tie. This type of dress code is effective for a number of reasons. Besides a police uniform, it's been proven that the suit and tie look gets the most immediate respect.

Also, people tend to act more professional dressed this way, and you can see it in many, many professions.

I like your post, and your points are valid, the dress code must present the professional players in a way that demands respect.......and projects an image of professionalism. I couldn't believe how they dress and style has plummeted in the last 15 years.

This is not a tough thing to change immediately, and it would make a tremendous difference. The Europeans already dress stylishly in their events, and also the snooker players "dress to impress," and give off a distinct look of professionalism.

Without questions there are many that would disagree with what we're saying, however, it's been proven to work and right now we need all the help we can get to upgrade the image of pool in the USA.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Hey, that's you in that picture, isn't it.

All of you look good. I think that is one thing that we have agreed on in the past. Only have to watch the Snooker players
to see how classy they look.

Earl for one always dresses nice casual. Talking about the image of pool. That is one way to start. Look like a professional.

To me, a vest always does the trick. Yep, black pants and a vest.

 

[mr3cushion]

In EVERY International 3C tournament around the World, this is and has been for many years the required dress code for play!









It definitely adds a certain level of 'Professionalism' to the event!

It's not the most comfortable garb to play in, but, you get use to it after awhile!

I've noticed over the years, Snooker players suit up the same way!

BTW, all theses players have excellent fundamentals, stance, bridge, grip, stroke!

 

[336Robin]

The Golden Age of Pool

In EVERY International 3C tournament around the World, this is and has been for many years the required dress code for play!

It definitely adds a certain level of 'Professionalism' to the event!

It's not the most comfortable garb to play in, but, you get use to it after awhile!

I've noticed over the years, Snooker players suit up the same way!

BTW, all theses players have excellent fundamentals, stance, bridge, grip, stroke!

I remember the first Pool Book I ever had my hand on. The 99 Critical Shots. Ray Martin wore a suit for the photographs. I respected that.

 

[wincardona]

Being a professional and experiencing glory......is it overrated??

That depends on who you ask, and when you ask them. :smilewinkgrin:

Bill Incardona

 

[Island Drive]

There was a book back in the sixties called....''cloths make the man''. Be a good read for those that actually say they care about the sport.
I was very impressed as a young college student seeing Lassiter/Balsis/Crane etc dressed in suits at Janscos, it did look classy and NBC was there shooting Film (wild world of sports) for many years during the finals.

A few years back I entered a US Open qualifier here in CO and it had a dress code and I was excited to play just because it would look like a pro event.....but when the TD showed up in sweats, and the player count was low because of dress code, the TD decided to let all the rag tag looking players play. What a joke when that was announced, and it was in Denver at a very classy downtown room.

 

[wincardona]

Remember, the greatest influences on the world never took money for their work.

It's better to do what you love without compensation than be stuck in a job that you hate, wishing to have had the courage to create a passionate destiny...with the realization that it is now too late. 'The Game is our Teacher'

I would like to believe what you say is reason enough to venture down the path that you have embellished, and yes I was one of the ones you speak of and it was a very gratifying experience ..while it lasted. However, what are we to do in the waning years of life when our enthusiasm and passion are all but gone? It's a trade off that few have benefitted from, but then again it's just one mans opinion.

Hopefully one day professional pocket billiard players will have more reason to venture down the path of "possible glory" that would make a lot more people much happier.

Thank you CJ.

Bill Incardona

 

[(((Satori)))]

However, what are we to do in the waning years of life when our enthusiasm and passion are all but gone? It's a trade off that few have benefitted from, but then again it's just one mans opinion.

Hopefully one day professional pocket billiard players will have more reason to venture down the path of "possible glory" that would make a lot more people much happier.

Thank you CJ.

Bill Incardona

First I want to say that I believe everyone should stick to their passions.

Second, Not every pro loses their passion for pool as they get older. Think Efren and Earl here. If your passion has changed then why not just follow your new passion?

Third, I really like your question "what are we to do in the waning years of life" but it is a much more serious question for those athletes who still have the passion but are too old to compete. Pool does not have this problem anywhere near the level of other sports.

 

[Island Drive]

First I want to say that I believe everyone should stick to their passions.

Second, Not every pro loses their passion for pool as they get older. Think Efren and Earl here. If your passion has changed then why not just follow your new passion?

Third, I really like your question "what are we to do in the waning years of life" but it is a much more serious question for those athletes who still have the passion but are too old to compete. Pool does not have this problem anywhere near the level of other sports.

Everything is relative in life....

 

[CJ Wiley]

how beautiful the game can be, it's just a matter of bringing this out for all to see

I would like to believe what you say is reason enough to venture down the path that you have embellished, and yes I was one of the ones you speak of and it was a very gratifying experience ..while it lasted. However, what are we to do in the waning years of life when our enthusiasm and passion are all but gone? It's a trade off that few have benefitted from, but then again it's just one mans opinion.

Hopefully one day professional pocket billiard players will have more reason to venture down the path of "possible glory" that would make a lot more people much happier.

Thank you CJ.

Bill Incardona

I see your point and you definitely have walked in shoes that few have experienced in the game, and in other aspects of life. Your opinion is one that I will always appreciate.

To have a fulfilling life there must be some balance and harmony. Pool doesn't have to be anyone's sole source of income. That's the misconception I see on this forum is if you're a professional pool player that means pool is the only source of income. This couldn't be further from the truth, I've made more than most playing the game, however, it's also catapulted other business ventures that compensated at a much higher level.

One way or another for pool to reach that "possible glory," it's going to take some personal sacrifices and willingness to put our own interests aside for the betterment of the game and how it will effect all concerned.

This, of course is much easier said than done, however, it's how our country was founded, developed and it's apparent in our 'Pledge of Allegiance' - it starts with "I" and always ends in "ALL".

I hope we both, Billy, live to see this happen with our own eyes. It's inevitable, just a matter of when, where, how, and with whom. What allows me confidence is knowing how beautiful the game can be, it's just a matter of bringing this out for all to see.

The game is presented okay, however, there's a vast room for improvement when considering the pure entertainment value.

You are one of the greatest commentators in the history of the sport, and I think you'd agree that the content of the rotation games could be improved by certain adjustments to bring out the higher levels of shot-making and strategic play.

This is just part of the complete over-haul that I feel is required, it's impossible for me to imagine the game, as it is, becoming popular with the general public.

 

[9andout]

Earl gets a lot of flak sometimes. I met him at SBE a few times and he was very nice every time. Autographs, talked a bit.
SBE used to have a Pro Am charity warm up. (Thurs. night then)
The women players were great to play with! J. Lee especially. Ewa seemed a little stuck up.
It ran a couple years with the men. But they were fun too. We were on T. Hohmann's team once. He was cool. Although he thought my "German" name was spelled funny.
Many names were changed a bit waaay back in the day when people first came to the USA. He prob. didn't realize that.
.......Wish A. Hopkins still had that event. Was a lot of fun!!

 

[Mikjary]

CJ, well said! Promoting a sport is more than slapping a sticker on the competitor and watching them go around a track 500 times. Although, it works well for them.

Despite what the players like, without changes to the game, we won't attract the positive attention we need. And these changes need to move us in the right direction, not create a sideshow that distracts viewers from the basic content.

The talk about reality shows will stir up some interest in the game, but we should not let the game be seen as just a part of the show. I'm not going alligator hunting or doing anything that I usually see on the tv. I enjoy the struggle and competition, but not so much the activity.

Pool is available to the general public and because of that, it's not new. The idea of competition should be emphasized with people of the same level competing against each other. Not just watching a champion run endless racks. The average viewer has to be inspired that they can achieve success through struggle. That's the draw for poker. You don't have be 6'8 and 300 lbs. to be a winner. You use your wits along with your abilities equal to your opponent's in a level field.

Though, we're not all created equal, only through competition do we find out to what degree.

Best,
Mike

 

[9andout]

I can't wait to see what CJ has in store going forward. He really cares about the game and the betterment of it, for all.

 

[SJDinPHX]

The game is presented okay, however, there's a vast room for improvement when considering the pure entertainment value.....This is just part of the complete over-haul that I feel is required, it's impossible for me to imagine the game, as it is, becoming popular with the general public.

You are correct, CJ...But EVERYONE has been saying the exact same thing, forever !..Instead of wasting time, wringing our hands and repeating it, spend that time figuring out a way to accomplish something workable...Let me give you a clue..it AIN'T gonna be '2 shot foul 9ball', or 'American Rotation' or God forbid, 'Bonus Ball'. :embarrassed2:

The LAST thing we need, is another new game !...And a 'reality' type presentation, (ie; pool players running around gambling with each other) I feel, has even LESS chance to succeed in the long run !..The ONLY game known, and accepted (and popular) 'world wide', is 8 ball !...With very few minor tweaks, it could become THE game that could give both amateurs and Pro's, a real chance for pool to succeed on a larger stage ! (TV, etc)

I've reached the age, where I no longer have the energy required to work full time, at promoting the game I have loved all my life..I'm OK financially, so I'm not looking for renumeration...But, I do have some very feasible ideas to share, and I'd be willing to work, with someone a little younger, with a little drive to succeed ! :thumbup:

 

[CJ Wiley]

Life is full of paradoxes.....and so is the Game.

CJ, well said! Promoting a sport is more than slapping a sticker on the competitor and watching them go around a track 500 times. Although, it works well for them.

Despite what the players like, without changes to the game, we won't attract the positive attention we need. And these changes need to move us in the right direction, not create a sideshow that distracts viewers from the basic content.

The talk about reality shows will stir up some interest in the game, but we should not let the game be seen as just a part of the show. I'm not going alligator hunting or doing anything that I usually see on the tv. I enjoy the struggle and competition, but not so much the activity.

Pool is available to the general public and because of that, it's not new. The idea of competition should be emphasized with people of the same level competing against each other. Not just watching a champion run endless racks. The average viewer has to be inspired that they can achieve success through struggle. That's the draw for poker. You don't have be 6'8 and 300 lbs. to be a winner. You use your wits along with your abilities equal to your opponent's in a level field.

Though, we're not all created equal, only through competition do we find out to what degree.

Best,
Mike

I started out thinking it was a documentary that was needed, then a reality show, now I "real eyes" that it will take an over-haul of the game as well.

This sounds easy, and it's taken me thousands of hours to put it together.....and I had no intention of doing anything of the kind. The toughest element to figure out was how to match the game to outside the industry sponsors.......this took an Epiphany.

Have you ever noticed that you create the best stuff when you're not trying? We all have the answers inside of us, sometimes the challenge is getting out of the way.

Even playing pool, on nights I feel the worst I sometimes play the best.

Life is full of paradoxes.....and so is the Game.

 

[336Robin]

I started out thinking it was a documentary that was needed, then a reality show, now I "real eyes" that it will take an over-haul of the game as well.

This sounds easy, and it's taken me thousands of hours to put it together.....and I had no intention of doing anything of the kind. The toughest element to figure out was how to match the game to outside the industry sponsors.......this took an Epiphany.

Have you ever noticed that you create the best stuff when you're not trying? We all have the answers inside of us, sometimes the challenge is getting out of the way.

Even playing pool, on nights I feel the worst I sometimes play the best.

Life is full of paradoxes.....and so is the Game.

If youre going to change the game to suit an audience it has to be exciting, like Ring Game Rules, and hand it back to them if you don't have a shot. This makes people have to come with something. I also like the idea of Partners matches, challenger tournament where you have to maintain the king of the hill type thing. There are lots of things that can be done to make the game more exciting and tv worthy but more importantly worthy of the publics attention and admiration.

 

[Mikjary]

You are correct, CJ...But EVERYONE has been saying the exact same thing, forever !..Instead of wasting time, wringing our hands and repeating it, spend that time figuring out a way to accomplish something workable...Let me give you a clue..it AIN'T gonna be '2 shot foul 9ball', or 'American Rotation' or God forbid, 'Bonus Ball'. :embarrassed2:

The LAST thing we need, is another new game !...And a 'reality' type presentation, (ie; pool players running around gambling with each other) I feel, has even LESS chance to succeed in the long run !..The ONLY game known, and accepted (and popular) 'world wide', is 8 ball !...With very few minor tweaks, it could become THE game that could give both amateurs and Pro's, a real chance for pool to succeed on a larger stage ! (TV, etc)

I've reached the age, where I no longer have the energy required to work full time, at promoting the game I have loved all my life..I'm OK financially, so I'm not looking for renumeration...But, I do have some very feasible ideas to share, and I'd be willing to work, with someone a little younger, with a little drive to succeed ! :thumbup:

I started out thinking it was a documentary that was needed, then a reality show, now I "real eyes" that it will take an over-haul of the game as well.

This sounds easy, and it's taken me thousands of hours to put it together.....and I had no intention of doing anything of the kind. The toughest element to figure out was how to match the game to outside the industry sponsors.......this took an Epiphany.

Have you ever noticed that you create the best stuff when you're not trying? We all have the answers inside of us, sometimes the challenge is getting out of the way.

Even playing pool, on nights I feel the worst I sometimes play the best.

Life is full of paradoxes.....and so is the Game.

Two pros posting with ideas in one thread! I like it!

Best,
Mike

 

[CJ Wiley]

We'll see what happens, the wheels are in motion.

If youre going to change the game to suit an audience it has to be exciting, like Ring Game Rules, and hand it back to them if you don't have a shot. This makes people have to come with something. I also like the idea of Partners matches, challenger tournament where you have to maintain the king of the hill type thing. There are lots of things that can be done to make the game more exciting and tv worthy but more importantly worthy of the publics attention and admiration.

Yes, I worked out the details like it was a mathematical formula, it took more time than I ever could have imagined. We'll see what happens, the wheels are in motion.