Inconsistent stroke

EagleMan said:
And that will be THE BEST 30 bucks any pool player has ever spent............................FOR SURE....PERIOD.

EagleMan
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DUDE!!! This one time in Memphis.... I spent a cool $30 on a bottle of Jaeger after 2 hot female blackjack dealers from Tunica picked me up at have a nice day cafe.... Man I sooo wish camera phones were around 10 years ago.... They had a long weekend and I had lots of splainin to do to corporate about not being onsite come Monday =)

My how 44 is so much different than 34... And yet I still feel the same :thumbup:

Chris
 
The Renfro said:
DUDE!!! This one time in Memphis.... I spent a cool $30 on a bottle of Jaeger after 2 hot female blackjack dealers from Tunica picked me up at have a nice day cafe.... Man I sooo wish camera phones were around 10 years ago.... They had a long weekend and I had lots of splainin to do to corporate about not being onsite come Monday =)

My how 44 is so much different than 34... And yet I still feel the same :thumbup:

Chris
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Have you noticed that you still look the same at 44 as you did at 24 also but only when you look in the mirror? I have that problem. No one else can see it.
 
To get better at anything we must first commit to NOT staying the same

madmiller said:
True that! I started playing not long ago and when I started coming to the pool hall I always saw the same few guys shooting pool all day long. They have been doing it for years, way before I picked up a cue for the first time. In my short time of going to the pool hall to practice I started showing significant progress, especially in the last 3 months.
Those guys in the room they shoot at the same level they shot 10 years ago.
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That's the difference of the "thinkers" and the "doers". To improve it takes time to experiment and "tinker" with your game (hopefully with some type of guidance, whether books or DVDs). No two players run out exactly the same, however, there are similaritities and that's what we all have to discover one way or another. To get better at anything we must first commit to NOT staying the same. :wink:
 
duckie said:
There is only one way to get a consistent stroke, 2 hours of practice, everyday of the week for a year.

No other way. Plain, simpe, hard truth.
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RIGHT on putting in the practice time. But you have to know what the proper mechanics are...otherwise, you're just "grooving your flaws."

(-:

EagleMan
 
CJ Wiley said:
Try making it more simple. The stroke is really just taking the hand back and returning it to where it started. If you do that you will force yourself to hit where you're aiming on the cue ball.

Be very precise when you aim at the cue ball. Aim with the top "pin" of your tip (the smallest portion you can imagine) and then feel your hand position the cue to that point. We all play the Game with our TIP, so be focused on delivering the TIP to Target. And that "Target" is always a spot on the cue ball, not the object ball. The object ball is a secondary target and responds as a result of how you contact the cue ball.

Be consious of where your right hand is and make sure your left bridge hand is firm and is contolling the cue. Before, during and after the shot the bridge hand must remain firm for maximum control.

Now simply take your hand back and return it to where it was, without trying to follow though at all. A long follow though "can be" negative and I could go into reasons not to do it unless "you're just showin off."

Keep it simple and effective, straight back, then straight back to the starting position. Now, the more you accellerate this motion the more you can do with the cue ball. :wink: 'The Game is the Teacher'
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I'm kidding...sort of...but if you return your hand to where it started you will either...

A. Double tap the CB or
B) Not hit the CB at all

(-:

But with GREAT respect...there is absolutely nothing resembling a "long follow through" if the top/inside of your butt hand thumb stops at your chest...for people with reasonably normal builds at least.

If you try to strike the CB but have no follow through to speak of, it seems to me that you would be encouraging a DECELERATING stroke which IMHO is one of the worst flaws in the cue sports.

I'm just sayin'.

(-:

EagleMan
 
The Renfro said:
DUDE!!! This one time in Memphis.... I spent a cool $30 on a bottle of Jaeger after 2 hot female blackjack dealers from Tunica picked me up at have a nice day cafe.... Man I sooo wish camera phones were around 10 years ago.... They had a long weekend and I had lots of splainin to do to corporate about not being onsite come Monday =)

My how 44 is so much different than 34... And yet I still feel the same :thumbup:

Chris
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Congratulations on your double header. But on was referring to money spent ON POOL not on.....oh...that other word that starts with a "p"

(-:

EagleMan
 
The faster you try to take the cue back the more energy it takes to redirect it.

EagleMan said:
I'm kidding...sort of...but if you return your hand to where it started you will either...

A. Double tap the CB or
B) Not hit the CB at all

(-:

But with GREAT respect...there is absolutely nothing resembling a "long follow through" if the top/inside of your butt hand thumb stops at your chest...for people with reasonably normal builds at least.

If you try to strike the CB but have no follow through to speak of, it seems to me that you would be encouraging a DECELERATING stroke which IMHO is one of the worst flaws in the cue sports.

I'm just sayin'.

(-:

EagleMan
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The backswing and follow through should be app. the same. The problem with beginning players is they get too "follow through conscious" and that actually leads to decelerating.

Accelleration is the key and it's done with the hand. The hand goes back and the hand returns, that 's all there is to it. Thinking about the shoulder and arm is something I would strongly advise NOT to do.

The Game is played in the Hand/Wrist/Forearm, and that's where to concentrate for the quickest improvement. Remember, the "moment of truth," is at impact and "whitey never lies," so keep it simple and precise. Pool's a game of extreme accuracy and hand/eye coordination, not arm/eye coordination.

The follow through happens naturally, I merely suggest not trying to extend it OR restrict it. A nice pause before the transition from backstroke to fore stroke is an effective way to control tempo and follow through.

The faster you try to take the cue back the more energy it takes to redirect it. This also leads to "jumping on the ball," trying to gain power in your stoke from anything other than a controlled delivery.
 
CJ Wiley said:
The backswing and follow through should be app. the same. The problem with beginning players is they get too "follow through conscious" and that actually leads to decelerating.

Not sure how being conscious of the follow through leads to decelerating...but concentrating on artificially restricting the follow through certainly would.

Accelleration is the key and it's done with the hand. The hand goes back and the hand returns, that 's all there is to it. Thinking about the shoulder and arm is something I would strongly advise NOT to do.

AGREED!

The Game is played in the Hand/Wrist/Forearm, and that's where to concentrate for the quickest improvement. Remember, the "moment of truth," is at impact and "whitey never lies," so keep it simple and precise. Pool's a game of extreme accuracy and hand/eye coordination, not arm/eye coordination.

The follow through happens naturally, I merely suggest not trying to extend it OR restrict it. A nice pause before the transition from backstroke to fore stroke is an effective way to control tempo and follow through.

AGREED!

The faster you try to take the cue back the more energy it takes to redirect it. This also leads to "jumping on the ball," trying to gain power in your stoke from anything other than a controlled delivery.
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YES...YES...YES!! I like to think of (in practice only) pulling back on a compound bow where it is HARD to pull at first...then gets progressively easier. So you get....SLOW...A LITTLE LESS SLOW AND A LITTLE LESS SLOW.

On a regular bow...or pulling on a rubber band it is EASY at first and THEN hard...so you get FAST progressing to slow which will RUIN most strokes.

It is a PLEASURE to be able to exchange views with you occasionally.

(-:

EagleMan
 
CJ Wiley said:
That's the difference of the "thinkers" and the "doers". To improve it takes time to experiment and "tinker" with your game (hopefully with some type of guidance, whether books or DVDs). No two players run out exactly the same, however, there are similaritities and that's what we all have to discover one way or another. To get better at anything we must first commit to NOT staying the same. :wink:
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Very well chosen words.

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9100 mit Tapatalk 2
 
All the above is good advice, but it's really just going to show you what you already know...that you have unwanted lateral (sideways) movement in your stroke. Lots of things can be causing this (grip, stance, etc.), but usually the culprit is the angle of your stroking arm. Either you have a chicken wing or a tucked in elbow. Just a little bit will cause your stroke to veer slightly, making it hard to hit the CB EXACTLY where you want.

When you get down on a shot, wiggle your arm a little side to side and relax it, letting the arm hang straight down from the elbow. Once you do this, (it helps to have someone stand behind you and spot it) all the other things people are telling you will fix this.

If this isn't your problem, I'd bet you're rolling your wrist a little either on the set up or during the stroke (that was my problem for years) or "snatching" the cue when you pull the trigger. If you get down on a shot, put the tip right up to the CB with a relaxed, cradled grip. Then tighten your grip. See the cue tip move? That could be a problem. That can be fixed by either concentrating on the "V" between your thumb/forefinger being on top of the cue at all times (you could actually point both the thumb and forefinger straight at the floor to check this), or using CJ Wiley's tennis grip (search for the thread here). Locking the wrist sometimes helps, however you choose to do it. Just a thought...kind of hard for folks to give you advice if we can't see your stroke. It really helps to get on-site help, since self diagnosis is really hard.
 
You are getting lots of good advice throughout this thread. I feel strongly that you should seek out a certified billiard instructor and let them analyze you as you shoot a variety of shots. I have been playing pool for over 20+ years and was stuck in my game, which was inconsistent at best. I was a 6 in apa 8-ball with a 30% win percentage (after personally following the advice i am going to give you, i am still a 6 in 8-ball, but now at 90% win percentage, currently ranked 4th in my league). My game has significantly improved, my practice has purpose & I shoot with a lot more confidence.

In September, my wife sent me to Tom Simpson's pool school (3 day intensive). It was expensive, but totally worth it. Shot mechanics are much more complicated than you think (or at leas than I thought). There are a ton of mechanics involved; shoulder, elbow, wrist, eye movement, stance, approach, bridge, hand placement, head, backstroke, forward stroke, transition between back & forward stroke, grip, follow through, levelness of the cue, etc. All complicated by different scenarios - close to the rail, on the rail, english, follow, draw, long shots, close shots, neer a ball, jacked up over a ball, etc.

You need someone QUALIFIED to video you and fine tune all of these things. Everyone is different & different things will work for different people.

Once you receive your personalized advice, you then need to practice - alot. One piece of advice that worked for me was from instructor Mark Finkelstein (he's one of the instructors that teaches at Tom's "beat people with a stick" clinic. Teaching is what Mark does for a living. He is awesome & out of new York). He advocates shooting 100 straight in shots every day (long ones, corner to corner) - paying strict attention to fundamentals. Your shots should have purpose (straight in stop shots one day, follow the next,etc.). Do this after you receive your instruction as you do not want to do this prior and just continue to practice with habits that may not be the best.

There are some excellent videos and books out there, I own them all. I am also a member of the accu stats video of the month club and I watch and study a lot of pros. You will find a ton of variation in the pros (and many with habits that go against what you may see in videos and books). But the pros hone their craft over millions of shots and tons of hours. They can overcome habits they develop over time simply by putting enormous amounts of time in (more than the average casual player). I spent a lot of time reading, watching and practicing, but nothing had the impact as when I received personalized analysis and instruction from certified billiards instructors (literally three days that changed my pool life - sounds dramatic, but true).

If you are like me, you put too much time into the sport you love to waste your time - practicing for hours, days, months and not improving to your satisfaction. Seek out a certified instructor - not neccessarilly a pro player - but a certified billiard instructor. Someone in this forum can point you in The right direction. You won't regret it, I promise!
 
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One sure way to develop an inconsistent stroke is to try something different every week.

There's good advice here, but mostly you just need to pick how you're going to swing your arm, then do that thousands of times without changing anything. Bringing your arm straight back and straight forward is strongly recommended, but with enough repetition even a crooked 'banana stroke' can be consistent.

Repetition is the key word. You don't want to repeat bad habits but a lot of this stuff is a matter of preference and physical comfort, not set in stone. One thing you should try, whether it feel comfortable or not, is the pause Eagleman suggests.

How long have you been playing?
 
EddieBme said:
Does anyone else have problems with an inconsistent stroke. I've tried most every stance, and drills to develope a consistent straight stroke. I can shoot the CB from the spot to the far rail, and have the CB come back and hit the cue, but it's only about 50% of the time. Any suggestions would certainly be appreciated.
Thanks
Not "Fast" Eddie :-(
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Pool School is not far from you. Treat yourself this year. I can help.

randyg
 
Forgot Basics

As a casual player, the one thing that will through off my shot most often is forgetting to stay with it. I have often watched my fellow players(old bunch of VFW buddies) start to raise up, in mid stroke. I do it less often but every now and then I catch myself getting down on a shot and letting it go without doing the mental checklist first. Then it's back to the basics to retrain the brain until it clicks in again. My point being, Body and head movement, even ever so slight, will cause me to miss my aim point on the QB and blow the shot.
 
Developing a consistent, straight stroke requires paying attention to the straightness of your stroke and LOTS of repetitions. I purchased a device a while back called CueTrack and it is designed to help you develop muscle memory for a straight stroke. It only works if you use it and I prefer going to the pool room and hitting lots of balls so the CueTrack sits idle collecting dust.

The best free advice I can give you is to pay attention to each warm up stroke and try to keep the shaft from wobbling back and forth. It's easy enough to see the wobble and it is what we all strive to eliminate.

Slowing down the speed of your warm up strokes and final stroke will assist in reducing the wobble in your stroke.

Adjusting the shape of your bridge as well as adjusting the overall firmness of your bridge can assist with a straight stroke as well.

A SMOOTH transition from the rearward motion to the foward motion of the stroke is another thing that help keep your cue on track. Think
"smooth" each time you stroke.
 
technoid101 said:
As a casual player, the one thing that will through off my shot most often is forgetting to stay with it. I have often watched my fellow players(old bunch of VFW buddies) start to raise up, in mid stroke. I do it less often but every now and then I catch myself getting down on a shot and letting it go without doing the mental checklist first. Then it's back to the basics to retrain the brain until it clicks in again. My point being, Body and head movement, even ever so slight, will cause me to miss my aim point on the QB and blow the shot.
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People will say, "You missed because you raised up on the shot" I will then say back to them "No, I missed the shot before that. I was rising up because I knew I missed it, before my cue made contact". I noticed that when I raise up on a shot, that means my subconscious has decided all by itself to try and fix my error halfway through my stroke and I will get steering lol This is what I noticed about me anyway. ;)
 
RG1 said:
People will say, "You missed because you raised up on the shot" I will then say back to them "No, I missed the shot before that. I was rising up because I knew I missed it, before my cue made contact". I noticed that when I raise up on a shot, that means my subconscious has decided all by itself to try and fix my error halfway through my stroke and I will get steering lol This is what I noticed about me anyway. ;)
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If you can use your muscles to raise up...you can use them to STOP the stroke...re-establish aim and stance and go again.

But I SUGGEST that your brain didn't just figure out you were going to miss AS you were stroking...but rather you were probably unsure about the shot even while you were taking your practice strokes but sort of said...."Hell with it...I gotta SHOOT."

Charlie Williams famously...good or bad...has been known to go down and up on shots a dozen times before shooting. Drives me NUTS to watch that...and maybe its a form of sharking on his part.

But giving him the benefit of the doubt, he must simply not like SOMETHING about the shot when he's down on it and has just programmed his mind to GET UP and start over...rather that know...or suspect...that he's wrong when he's down.

I am NOT either recommending or criticizing Charlie's methods. All I am saying is that I can't think of ANY reason to rise up on a shot until WELL after the stroke is finished. In PRACTICE...I stay down until the CB stops rolling....PERIOD.

Or, you could just routinely count to 3 before getting up.....ANYTHING to make it absolutely the way you play NOT to rise up....EVER....during a stroke or even anywhere very close to its conclusion.

That "stay down time" can also be used to check your finish position...cue tip low or ON the cloth...butt hand thumb in EXACTLY the correct place (for you)...SOLIDLY balanced on both feet--not leaning etc.

If you don't do that checklist, how do you know why you missed (or didn't miss)????

Players blame their aim when their body position was wrong or blame their body position when their aim was wrong...and on and on...and just end up chasing their tails and NEVER learning anything.

That's exactly why SO many players hit a certain level and don't improve...FOR YEARS...if ever.

If I coudn't go from a C to an A player in a year or so, I would go find some game I was better at..but you CANNOT improve if you don't know EXACTLY what you're doing wrong....AND even when you KNOW what to do...you have to KNOW when you're not doing it...thus the after shot checklist technique.

Or EVEN BETTER get a lesson or series of lessons from a respected pro.

(-:

EagleMan
 
your not familiar with the term "steering", i know its happened to you ;) I am advanced enough to know why i missed when i miss without going through a checklist lol I was discussing the raising up during a shot and the reason i have figured out when ever i have personally done it ;)
 
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EagleMan said:
If you can use your muscles to raise up...you can use them to STOP the stroke...re-establish aim and stance and go again.

But I SUGGEST that your brain didn't just figure out you were going to miss AS you were stroking...but rather you were probably unsure about the shot even while you were taking your practice strokes but sort of said...."Hell with it...I gotta SHOOT."

Charlie Williams famously...good or bad...has been known to go down and up on shots a dozen times before shooting. Drives me NUTS to watch that...and maybe its a form of sharking on his part.

But giving him the benefit of the doubt, he must simply not like SOMETHING about the shot when he's down on it and has just programmed his mind to GET UP and start over...rather that know...or suspect...that he's wrong when he's down.

I am NOT either recommending or criticizing Charlie's methods. Me neither. Hard to criticize something that works for a top pro. That said, I would never want to teach someone to go up and down like CW does. Size it up, line it up, shoot it in! All I am saying is that I can't think of ANY reason to rise up on a shot until WELL after the stroke is finished. In PRACTICE...I stay down until the CB stops rolling....PERIOD. Not if you're shooting a straight in draw shot...you'll foul on your tip. Other than that, good info here.

Or, you could just routinely count to 3 before getting up.....ANYTHING to make it absolutely the way you play NOT to rise up....EVER....during a stroke or even anywhere very close to its conclusion.

That "stay down time" can also be used to check your finish position...cue tip low or ON the cloth...butt hand thumb in EXACTLY the correct place (for you)...SOLIDLY balanced on both feet--not leaning etc.

If you don't do that checklist, how do you know why you missed (or didn't miss)????

Players blame their aim when their body position was wrong or blame their body position when their aim was wrong...and on and on...and just end up chasing their tails and NEVER learning anything.

That's exactly why SO many players hit a certain level and don't improve...FOR YEARS...if ever.

If I coudn't go from a C to an A player in a year or so, I would go find some game I was better at..but you CANNOT improve if you don't know EXACTLY what you're doing wrong....AND even when you KNOW what to do...you have to KNOW when you're not doing it...thus the after shot checklist technique.Not sure if I agree with you here. Going from C to A is a big stretch for a lot of players. Many will need more time than a year.

Or EVEN BETTER get a lesson or series of lessons from a respected proJust want to add one word...respected pro "instructor". (-:

EagleMan
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Eagleman...lots of good info here from you. Good post!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
 
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