Inside on rail shots?

brigeton

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I watched a video the other day that said inside on a rail shot will help the ball hug the rail better. I've always shot them with whatever I needed for position. A large percentage of shots need outside to come toward the center of the table. I've never noticed inside being better than outside or center ball if I hit it right. What say you?
 

Masayoshi

Fusenshou no Masa
Silver Member
I watched a video the other day that said inside on a rail shot will help the ball hug the rail better. I've always shot them with whatever I needed for position. A large percentage of shots need outside to come toward the center of the table. I've never noticed inside being better than outside or center ball if I hit it right. What say you?

If the object ball is frozen to the rail or very nearly so and the cue ball is at an angle where cutting the object ball in directly would be from somewhat difficult to impossible, using inside to rail first the cue ball into the object ball will make the shot easier to pocket. The cue ball will be more difficult to control. It usually works better if there is more distance in between the cue ball and object ball because the swerve also helps out at extreme angles.
 
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Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I watched a video the other day that said inside on a rail shot will help the ball hug the rail better.
That’s an old myth.

I've always shot them with whatever I needed for position. A large percentage of shots need outside to come toward the center of the table. I've never noticed inside being better than outside or center ball if I hit it right. What say you?
You’re right - use what’s needed for shape.

pj
chgo
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you shoot CP to CP then the rail is nearly irrelevant. It will even act as a ball track somewhat. Known exceptions being shooting across the side pockets or both balls frozen to the same rail.

If the rails are very live, you may want to use outside to prevent banking the ball. If the object ball is close to a pocket, inside gives you the biggest target in that you can even hit rail first. But yeah, cue ball function is the operative condition.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
If I was shooting the 9 and it was frozen, I’d use center high.

Otherwise I’d use whatever is needed for position.

Draw has got to have to lowest pocketing rate for frozen shots, imo.
 

Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It is false claim but there is some wisdom to use inside and outside to make pocketing ball easier. Of course now we don´t talk about positional needs but only making target bigger.

Every shot have a margin of freedom on contact point where it still goes. If ball is close to pocket margin gets bigger and so on...

Inside English can make margin of freedom bigger .. IF ball is thinner than something like 35 degrees. If ball have very slight angle outside english will make margin of freedom bigger.
I am not sure (can´t remember) what degree is exact number where inside should be used to help making a ball if that is only goal. Maybe it was 45 degrees...

Anyways. Check Jack E. Koehler - Science of Pocket Billiards for details. I think that rail shot section was most entertaining read about physics in pool. It will even improve your game if you can bring that knowledge to practice table and then shoot those shots.

P.s that book is awesome so many ways anyway. I recommend to all who is serious to getting better to at least read it thru. :)
 

Geosnooker

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What table and pocket cut?

Russian Pyramid?

Snooker?

English Pool?

American Pool?

Chinese 8 ball?

A ball Frozen on the rail on most tables is played completely different than one not frozen. ‘Wobblies’ only sink on American tables. In Snooker, Russian pyramid, etc. object ball need Spin to snuggly hug the rail into the pocket.
 
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alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If the ball is frozen at a steep angle low inside hitting the cushion just ahead of the object ball will cause the object ball to hug the rail.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’ve always preferred inside spin when an object ball is frozen on the rail, particularly the farther away from the corner pocket it is. I definitely try to avoid using outside, particularly when the object ball is a good distance away from the corner pocket.
 

Scratch85

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I agree with Island Drive and Geosnooker. A frozen ball presents a much different situation than one off the rail. If it’s off the rail, have at it however you want to get position. If it’s on the rail, your position is mostly limited to forward, for most of us mere mortals. I am lucky to bring the cueball back a full diamond and lose accuracy cueing that far from center. Hitting a frozen ball before the rail is usually disaster. So you need to hit it and the rail simultaneously, with no push, or hit rail first. If you hit rail first, a little high/inside helps, to pocket the ball, allowing for a larger margin of error. My .02.


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Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What table and pocket cut?

Russian Pyramid?

Snooker?

English Pool?

American Pool?

Chinese 8 ball?

A ball Frozen on the rail on most tables is played completely different than one not frozen. ‘Wobblies’ only sink on American tables. In Snooker, Russian pyramid, etc. object ball need Spin to snuggly hug the rail into the pocket.

Pyramid and Finnish Kaisa tables shot is impossible or table is done wrong. And you can´t "Spin" object ball so much it have any difference. In Russian Pyramid they can shoot cueball in pocket too and there they use tremendous amount of side spin to help ball drop in really tight pocket. That sidespin makes cueball swim in. Also there speed helps to heavy ball go in because it is pushing pocket liners little more apart.
 
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Geosnooker

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree with Island Drive and Geosnooker. A frozen ball presents a much different situation than one off the rail. If it’s off the rail, have at it however you want to get position. If it’s on the rail, your position is mostly limited to forward, for most of us mere mortals. I am lucky to bring the cueball back a full diamond and lose accuracy cueing that far from center. Hitting a frozen ball before the rail is usually disaster. So you need to hit it and the rail simultaneously, with no push, or hit rail first. If you hit rail first, a little high/inside helps, to pocket the ball, allowing for a larger margin of error. My .02.


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums

I like the spirit of this post.

Even as a geophysicist I never get out a protractor and slide rule and start doing calculations for ‘the perfect angle and spin’. Even if reduced to the mathematical certainty, it doesn’t mean I have robotic accuracy to execute.

Over the decades I know what works most of the time ‘for me’. Not the best angle or spin ‘in theory’ but the best for mere mortals to succeed at. It’s called ‘wisdom’.
 

DynoDan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’ve always preferred inside spin when an object ball is frozen on the rail, particularly the farther away from the corner pocket it is. I definitely try to avoid using outside, particularly when the object ball is a good distance away from the corner pocket.

Back when I was first learning to play on full sized/commercial equipment, I had a lot of trouble with rail shots (dirty clay balls, worn nappy/Stevens cloth, old cushions on drop pocket Schmitt tables) when I tried to make them using ordinary cut angle aiming. I then discovered they would go every time if I hit rail-first with inside.
Of course, now I use the more complex approach described in Koehler’s book (adjusting aim & english for CB position).
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I shoot near- or on-the-rail shots the same way I shoot middle table shots, ignoring the rail except as a visual guide to the pocket. I use whatever spin (or none) is needed for position, with the usual slight aim adjustments for throw (the small amount of cushion compression isn't a factor).

The exception is rail-first shots for position.

pj
chgo
 

sixpack

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
It is false claim but there is some wisdom to use inside and outside to make pocketing ball easier. Of course now we don´t talk about positional needs but only making target bigger.

Every shot have a margin of freedom on contact point where it still goes. If ball is close to pocket margin gets bigger and so on...

Inside English can make margin of freedom bigger .. IF ball is thinner than something like 35 degrees. If ball have very slight angle outside english will make margin of freedom bigger.
I am not sure (can´t remember) what degree is exact number where inside should be used to help making a ball if that is only goal. Maybe it was 45 degrees...

Anyways. Check Jack E. Koehler - Science of Pocket Billiards for details. I think that rail shot section was most entertaining read about physics in pool. It will even improve your game if you can bring that knowledge to practice table and then shoot those shots.

P.s that book is awesome so many ways anyway. I recommend to all who is serious to getting better to at least read it thru. :)

When I saw this thread title I instantly thought of that chapter in Kohler’s book!
 

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Gold Member
Silver Member
The inside would help move the throw in the opposite direction needed to grip the rail and run down it.
A better idea would be cut the ball enough to avoid touching the rail. Touch of Slide lol
 

brigeton

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for the replies. I agree with Patrick on this. If I hit the ball right it hugs the rail no matter what English I use. I do use inside and rail first on a real thin cut but I try to avoid those shots when possible.
 
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