Instructors that won't tell you what speed they are
- Thread starter Jen_Cen
- Start date
JoeyA said:
Yeah, I used to do it ALL THE TIME! I mean, I'd drop $100 to one of the locals here but yeah, HOURS of invaluable match-play. What's more, you really learn a lot about yourself when you finally get that first win. Dealing with all the nerves and what not can be HUGE. You take that with you everywhere. I was a B player when I beat my first Open level player and I went to tournaments after that with this attitude like, "I can beat an open player even up, who the hell are you?!?!?!"
I agree Jude or find an old timer who plays well to take you under his wing and im sure there are many who will and get your game up.I was lucky enough to have a mentor to teach me the ropes and my game went up fast,from like D- speed to low B in like a years time when i first got going,that was a great improvement and we would just play for table time.We went from me getting the 5 ball to playing even in about a years time and the game was alot more fun and comptetitive when we got to even.Jude Rosenstock said:
Jen_Cen,
Regardless of the instructor you finally choose to take a lesson from, you will get the most out of the lesson if you focus on learning what the instructor teaches.
Life has no other discipline to impose, if we would but realize it, than to accept life unquestioningly. Everything we shut our eyes to, everything we run away from, everything we deny, denigrate, or despise, serves to defeat us in the end. What seems nasty, painful, evil, can become a source of beauty, joy, and strength, if faced with an open mind. Every moment is a golden one for him who has the vision to recognize it as such.
Henry Miller (1891 - 1980)
Regardless of the instructor you finally choose to take a lesson from, you will get the most out of the lesson if you focus on learning what the instructor teaches.
Life has no other discipline to impose, if we would but realize it, than to accept life unquestioningly. Everything we shut our eyes to, everything we run away from, everything we deny, denigrate, or despise, serves to defeat us in the end. What seems nasty, painful, evil, can become a source of beauty, joy, and strength, if faced with an open mind. Every moment is a golden one for him who has the vision to recognize it as such.
Henry Miller (1891 - 1980)
Id agree, although He ducked me once before, after reading his replies over the months since then, I find he may be all he says he is....can he improve a top player? I dunno, i do like his methods, from what ive heard...Video analysis however is a tool, not the teacher.....
SPINDOKTOR
SPINDOKTOR
LILJOHN30 said:
You can't teach what you don't know !
One can only teach what they know. In that sense an instructor has to be a good player before they become a teacher. The instructor should have mastered the fundamentals of the game and be able to demonstrate above average ability before their teaching has any meaning. It seems to me that the nuances of pool have many variables that need to be considered and brought together during actual play. Thus knowledge and ability must be combined. If one is not able to do this, one can not teach what they do not know (to paraphrase some of the instructors here).
What is good playing ability? I guess it would be ability that is better than the ability of an average (C) player. I think an instructor should be able to run 100 balls, if they have mastered the techniques that they advocate. Alternatively, they should be able to run five or six racks of eight ball or nine ball before entering into a teaching agreement.
A person who could play this well is at least someone that anyone could listen to because the have the ability to bring the game together.
How well can they comminicate and hold the attention of their students? That is another matter.
I would have more respect for BCA certified instructors who have been examined, tested, and certified for their ability to play and to teach. Certification would have definite meaning under these circumstances. One must demonstrate their ability (via a thesis) and be examined for content before obtaining an advanced degree in the sciences and many other professions. However, this too has been watered down in some instances.
One can only teach what they know. In that sense an instructor has to be a good player before they become a teacher. The instructor should have mastered the fundamentals of the game and be able to demonstrate above average ability before their teaching has any meaning. It seems to me that the nuances of pool have many variables that need to be considered and brought together during actual play. Thus knowledge and ability must be combined. If one is not able to do this, one can not teach what they do not know (to paraphrase some of the instructors here).
What is good playing ability? I guess it would be ability that is better than the ability of an average (C) player. I think an instructor should be able to run 100 balls, if they have mastered the techniques that they advocate. Alternatively, they should be able to run five or six racks of eight ball or nine ball before entering into a teaching agreement.
A person who could play this well is at least someone that anyone could listen to because the have the ability to bring the game together.
How well can they comminicate and hold the attention of their students? That is another matter.
I would have more respect for BCA certified instructors who have been examined, tested, and certified for their ability to play and to teach. Certification would have definite meaning under these circumstances. One must demonstrate their ability (via a thesis) and be examined for content before obtaining an advanced degree in the sciences and many other professions. However, this too has been watered down in some instances.
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I've held off weighing in on this, since I am an instructor and probably somewhat biased. But I believe a good player can be a great instructor. I would say most of the instructors I work with regularly are at least a B player or better. Very few of them are pro level. There is a good reason for that. If you spend 8 hour days teaching, and someone spends 8 hours a day practicing, which one would you expect to be the better player? Which one would you think would be the better instructor?
Good instructors have a different mindset. We actually enjoy teaching others. I get just as excited when one of my students enjoys success at the table as I would if I did it myself.
One of my students just sent me an e-mail this week. He just learned he is going to be in a future edition of IP magazine as APA player of the month. I had another student call me one night to tell me he just had his first break and run in league. (He is now one of the top players in his league, but at the time, that was a big deal to him) I've got other comments from students, some of which are posted on my web site for anyone to see. I measure my success by the success of my students, not by my personal accomplishments. Sure, I've won some tournaments, finished well in many more, and even get lucky enough to beat a pro on rare occasions. I guess that would put me in the range of a B player or better. But it doesn't matter. If my students are showing improvement as a result of my work, then I'm doing what I am supposed to do.
One thing is for sure...I know I am a much better instructor than I am a player, primarily because that is how I choose to direct my efforts. While the original question probably should have been answered, it is really of no significance when it comes to selecting an instructor. A better question might have been "How do your students rate you as an instructor?".
Steve
Good instructors have a different mindset. We actually enjoy teaching others. I get just as excited when one of my students enjoys success at the table as I would if I did it myself.
One of my students just sent me an e-mail this week. He just learned he is going to be in a future edition of IP magazine as APA player of the month. I had another student call me one night to tell me he just had his first break and run in league. (He is now one of the top players in his league, but at the time, that was a big deal to him) I've got other comments from students, some of which are posted on my web site for anyone to see. I measure my success by the success of my students, not by my personal accomplishments. Sure, I've won some tournaments, finished well in many more, and even get lucky enough to beat a pro on rare occasions. I guess that would put me in the range of a B player or better. But it doesn't matter. If my students are showing improvement as a result of my work, then I'm doing what I am supposed to do.
One thing is for sure...I know I am a much better instructor than I am a player, primarily because that is how I choose to direct my efforts. While the original question probably should have been answered, it is really of no significance when it comes to selecting an instructor. A better question might have been "How do your students rate you as an instructor?".
Steve
One of these days I'd like to take a lesson to discover some of my bad habits that I don't even know about. I believe that there are some people who can teach, who understand mechanics, but just don't have the coordination to take them to the winner's circle- but, like Little Al told me, "If you are going to learn, you want to learn from somebody who's been to the top of the mountain and back down." Very true.
my two cents
Obviously pool knowledge and pool ability are related. It is a fair assumption that a high level player also has a high level of knowledge and understanding ( at least on a subconcious level). Also being able to physically demonstrate what you are teaching is a huge plus. This is what many people want to get for their money, as opposed to learning from the many books and videos available. Seeing it up close and first hand, not seeing a drawing or video clip.
That aside, it is fact that the best players are NOT the best teachers. Sometimes a persons natural affinity for something is the precise reason they are unable to teach well. If I am a rank beginner and am trying to learn from a top player, he may not be able to relate to my lack of understanding. This top player can demonstrate the shot flawlessly every time, but when I fail and ask what to change, he may say " I just do it like this, and it works". He may not be able to relate to my struggle in this respect. Some of these "naturals" cannot relate in the same way that some has said that a player who has not reached a high level cannot teach advanced nuances. They do not have the experience in the struggle of learning as most of the students have. If you were a natural, it is far less likely you would be taking lessons. The struggle is what motivates most people to seek out lessons in the first place.
The main thing to remember is that while credentials are great. I think that teaching credentials are more important than playing credentials. You are looking for a teacher not a player. If you are sponsoring a new tour, then look for playing credentials. If you are lookiing for a good teacher, look for teaching credentials. If you are looking for a plumber, you don't care how well he may do woodworking.
DOING SOMETHING WELL, AND TEACHING WELL ARE TWO COMPLETELY SEPARATE SKILLS. TEACHING IS A SKILL IN AND OF ITSELF. Some great players also have this skill, and some do not.
Obviously pool knowledge and pool ability are related. It is a fair assumption that a high level player also has a high level of knowledge and understanding ( at least on a subconcious level). Also being able to physically demonstrate what you are teaching is a huge plus. This is what many people want to get for their money, as opposed to learning from the many books and videos available. Seeing it up close and first hand, not seeing a drawing or video clip.
That aside, it is fact that the best players are NOT the best teachers. Sometimes a persons natural affinity for something is the precise reason they are unable to teach well. If I am a rank beginner and am trying to learn from a top player, he may not be able to relate to my lack of understanding. This top player can demonstrate the shot flawlessly every time, but when I fail and ask what to change, he may say " I just do it like this, and it works". He may not be able to relate to my struggle in this respect. Some of these "naturals" cannot relate in the same way that some has said that a player who has not reached a high level cannot teach advanced nuances. They do not have the experience in the struggle of learning as most of the students have. If you were a natural, it is far less likely you would be taking lessons. The struggle is what motivates most people to seek out lessons in the first place.
The main thing to remember is that while credentials are great. I think that teaching credentials are more important than playing credentials. You are looking for a teacher not a player. If you are sponsoring a new tour, then look for playing credentials. If you are lookiing for a good teacher, look for teaching credentials. If you are looking for a plumber, you don't care how well he may do woodworking.
DOING SOMETHING WELL, AND TEACHING WELL ARE TWO COMPLETELY SEPARATE SKILLS. TEACHING IS A SKILL IN AND OF ITSELF. Some great players also have this skill, and some do not.
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excellent view... bravo man. bravopooltchr said:
Excuse me? 
When did I ever "duck" you? You have never even responded to my PM's regarding working with you. I don't even know where you live, let alone whether I WANT to work with you. The student must come into the lesson with an open mind...otherwise it is a waste of time for both people.
If you're really serious...contact me. The ball is in your court!
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
When did I ever "duck" you? You have never even responded to my PM's regarding working with you. I don't even know where you live, let alone whether I WANT to work with you. The student must come into the lesson with an open mind...otherwise it is a waste of time for both people. If you're really serious...contact me. The ball is in your court!Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
SPINDOKTOR said:
I took a lesson from Scott a few months ago (it was great). Video was not the instructor, Scott was. The video was a (big) bonus however.SPINDOKTOR said:
[EDIT]Just wanted to add on topic, that my confidence in an instructor would be badly shaken if he refused to tell me his speed. Why? Because it would indicate a lack of confidence on his part.
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I've been rather hesitant to post on AZ as of late, choosing to lurk more than comment. I have to say, the student-teacher relationship, and the question of qaulification is a rather old one.
There's an old saying, "poor is the pupil who does not surpass his master". Feel free to take whatever you like from that. However, a man can be absolutely brilliant, but if he is unable to convey his knowledge to another person, then how much could one really learn? For example, I have a friend here who speaks and writes phenomenal thai. Even with that ability, he is unable to explain how and why he does. In the end, I'm unable to learn anything from him. The opposite is likewise true, if a student has no inclination to learn. If his mind is already closed, how much could one really learn? The answer is nothing.
The pool community is a small one. What others have already suggested, and what I suggest is: ask around. You'll find rather quickly, a quality teacher for a reasonable price.
As a side note, I've taken a lesson from Scott Lee. It's clearly obvious he's an excellent player, that being said, he's a better teacher. It's unfortunate my life has taken me away from pool for the moment. I don't have the means or time to apply what I learned.
There's an old saying, "poor is the pupil who does not surpass his master". Feel free to take whatever you like from that. However, a man can be absolutely brilliant, but if he is unable to convey his knowledge to another person, then how much could one really learn? For example, I have a friend here who speaks and writes phenomenal thai. Even with that ability, he is unable to explain how and why he does. In the end, I'm unable to learn anything from him. The opposite is likewise true, if a student has no inclination to learn. If his mind is already closed, how much could one really learn? The answer is nothing.
The pool community is a small one. What others have already suggested, and what I suggest is: ask around. You'll find rather quickly, a quality teacher for a reasonable price.
As a side note, I've taken a lesson from Scott Lee. It's clearly obvious he's an excellent player, that being said, he's a better teacher. It's unfortunate my life has taken me away from pool for the moment. I don't have the means or time to apply what I learned.
watchez said:
Damn you, i have him on ignore, if it wasn't for guys like you quoting him, i would never have to be exposed to his drivel.
haha, i do have him on ignore, for obvious reasons. my ignore list consists of people on here that have made irreparably stupid remarks. i'll make my list public if anyone wants it, haha.
the last guy i put on ignore said that top players like efren dont try to put the cueball right where they want it because they are able to control the cueball from any old angle, haha, still laughing about that one.... i bet that guy plays good pressure pool.
to the poster, i recommend teachers that can play. if they wont tell you (or at least play with you a few games) that is a huge red flag. and, if you are a more serious player, i recommend getting lessons from somebody you see that plays well under pressure, after all, that is what it's all about. who knows what you need to mentally prepare yourself for pressure situations?? guys that do it well, that's how i see it. again, this is if you're a good player however. the worse you play the less picky you have to be about teachers i think.
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