Instructors that won't tell you what speed they are

[easy-e]

I haven't read all of the posts on this thread yet, but I agree with the OP. I want my instructor to be able to play. They don't have to be a pro speed, or even able to beat me, but they do have to play enough to understand certain things that I would refer to. Things that you develop through playing a lot of pool. I would never give my money to a C player to help me with my game. If they could help me with my game, why isn't their own game improving?

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Efren's lesson of "follow the cue ball, using draw" was one of the most perplexing moments of my life . I finally learned that one too, but it took 6-12 months of pondering. ...

Is this similar to what Willie Hoppe shows for long shots that need soft follow?

 

[mattman]

It's one those secrets that will make you change the way you look at controlling the rock.

Right Corey?


I remember that I tried to explain it once (either here or at RSB), and I caught a lot of heat over it - some started calling me crazy and saying I didn't know what I was talking about. They were convinced that it made no sense. I'm still smiling that same smile Efren had on his face when he showed me.

I would be intersted in hearing about this one!!!

Matt

 

[PoolBum]

IMO, it really does not make a difference what the instructors "speed" is. Being evasive about the question is kinda lame and unprofessional though. They ought to be able to have that conversation and have it end in your comfort and respect for your instructor.

I have had a lesson from, Cole Dickson (1990), Nick Varner (1990), Efren Reyes (1998) and several from Frank "dabarbr" Almanza (2005 & 2006). Either I am dumb as a board or instruction is not their specialty--Frank excluded.

My experience is similar to yours. I have taken lessons from some top notch pros, and teaching was definitely not their specialty. You don't have to be one of the best pros to be a very good teacher, but I do think that the playing ability of the instructor can matter.

As I mentioned before, I think that knowledge and ability go hand-in-hand at the pool table. A "B" player will typically not know as much as an "A" player because the B player does not have the skills to recognize and incorporate into her game the knowledge that goes with being an A player, for example.

Thus I think that the level of ability required in an instructor will be partly relative to the playing level and needs of the student. If the student is a B player, an A player as teacher would probably be better, other things being equal, than another B player.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

CrownCityCorey:
Efren's lesson of "follow the cue ball, using draw" was one of the most perplexing moments of my life . I finally learned that one too, but it took 6-12 months of pondering.

Joey:
I have heard similar words from Filipino players but do not think I ever truly got it. I've pondered it to bits.

Can you help to explain it? ( How it's done and the benefits to be derived from it, etc.)

I think the only thing it can be is drag draw - hitting low but not low enough (or not hard enough) so the draw stays on all the way to the OB. The result is the same as if you slow roll the CB - the benefit is that you can get the same result by hitting a little harder, avoiding table rolls (and maybe staying more within your stroke comfort zone).

pj
chgo

 

[CrownCityCorey]

I think the only thing it can be is drag draw - hitting low but not low enough (or not hard enough) so the draw stays on all the way to the OB. The result is the same as if you slow roll the CB - the benefit is that you can get the same result by hitting a little harder, avoiding table rolls (and maybe staying more within your stroke comfort zone).

pj
chgo

That is a long distance shot. This shot was about 1-2 ft away and involved multple collisions, hence needing to follow through the balls.

Many of the things Efren does with the pill, most other players can not do. Even great ones. A lot of it has to do with stroke mechanics, grip, minds eye, yada-yada.

Like a combination lock dial. Just having the numbers aint enough.

Not to say no one can do these things, they just require multiple adjustments to get right. Since Efren can not necesarily explain what he's doing, one must have a very high knowledge base to even attemt it with any chance of success.

 

[Bob Jewett]

.. This shot was about 1-2 ft away and involved multple collisions, hence needing to follow through the balls....

Can you describe it or do a Wei diagram?

Thanks.

 

[CrownCityCorey]

Can you describe it or do a Wei diagram?

Thanks.

This is one of those ones that I gotta do on a pool table myself to remember right, it has been 10 years! LOL!

I have not hit balls since Swanee and likely won't again till June.

I know, what a tease...............

 

[mattman]

I am beginning to wonder if this shot is anything like snipe hunting?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...This shot was about 1-2 ft away and involved multple collisions, hence needing to follow through the balls.

Well, pool isn't quantum physics, so nothing happened that isn't really easy to understand. Most likely it was something that just went unnoticed, like he hit the ball higher than any of you thought.

pj
chgo

 

[CrownCityCorey]

Well, pool isn't quantum physics, so nothing happened that isn't really easy to understand. Most likely it was something that just went unnoticed, like he hit the ball higher than any of you thought.

pj
chgo

Actually, the cue ball dissapeared, then reappeared on the other side of 2 or 3 balls. I could actually see my self being the cue ball for a split second--it was glorious

He is "The Magician".

 

[WilleeCue]

So, are you a really good cuemaker?
JoeyA

Yes Joey, with out any hesitation or doubt I tell you I am!
If I thought otherwise I would either learn more or stop making them.
You must have confidence in yourself if you expect anyone else to have any in you.
I am not a master cue maker and not everything I make is perfect but they all are "good" cues that IMHO will endure the test of time.

That said the true answer is with the people that buy and use the cues I make. Only the player himself can judge the true value of the cue.

 

[Puck]

I think the only thing it can be is drag draw - hitting low but not low enough (or not hard enough) so the draw stays on all the way to the OB. The result is the same as if you slow roll the CB - the benefit is that you can get the same result by hitting a little harder, avoiding table rolls (and maybe staying more within your stroke comfort zone).

That was my thought: a drag shot. In addition to PJ's comments above, I'll use it in situations where position requires follow...but I also have to hold the cue ball. (Assuming I can't get to a rail for reverse english.) For example, a long cut shot into the side pocket...where I want the cue ball to roll forward but not near any rails. Stuff like that.

 

[WilleeCue]

Hi Willie, can recall hearing too much from you since the RSB days.

Yes, I try to use my time in a more constructive manner these days.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Actually, the cue ball dissapeared, then reappeared on the other side of 2 or 3 balls. I could actually see my self being the cue ball for a split second--it was glorious

He is "The Magician".

LOL. Now that's a stroke!

A friend had a cat who would chase a ball down into one pocket and come up from another. I know that's a non-sequitur, but I enjoy telling it and it's hard to find opportunities. Your post was weird enough that I thought it might fit in...

pj
chgo

 

[macguy]

I was e-mailing back and forth with an instructor who advertises on here. He runs a pool school. All I wanted to know was what speed he is rated as a player.

And this instructor would not disclose this info. Instead he danced around and said it doesn't make a difference.

If he's ashamed to disclose his rating, it must be low. I'm not about to give $900 to an instructor who's only a C player.

He Is right and the other side of the coin is a top player may be a terrible instructor. In fact, most I have seen and I have seen quite a few, just wasted the students time and money.

 

[poolplayer2093]

I was e-mailing back and forth with an instructor who advertises on here. He runs a pool school. All I wanted to know was what speed he is rated as a player.

And this instructor would not disclose this info. Instead he danced around and said it doesn't make a difference.

If he's ashamed to disclose his rating, it must be low. I'm not about to give $900 to an instructor who's only a C player.

what you know isn't always shown by what you can do. that's why the nfl has coaches. maybe he was a stronger player before and now doesn't hit them so well. there wouldn't be much knowledge lost, just ability to execute

but honestly i think you'd be best spending your time on accustats and table time

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...i think you'd be best spending your time on accustats and table time

Those are certainly valuable things to do, but I don't think they're enough if you want to advance as quickly as possible. A good instructor will teach you to better understand what you see on accustats (and what to look for) and how to spend your table time so it's most productive.

Also, neither of those things will show you what you can't see about your own play.

pj
chgo

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I was e-mailing back and forth with an instructor who advertises on here. He runs a pool school. All I wanted to know was what speed he is rated as a player.

And this instructor would not disclose this info. Instead he danced around and said it doesn't make a difference.

If he's ashamed to disclose his rating, it must be low. I'm not about to give $900 to an instructor who's only a C player.

Just because he or she is or was a "C", if they could make you the number 1 Pro Pool Player in the World would their speed really matter?

 

[etimmons]

instructors

There is an old saying...
"Those that can do, those that can't, teach".
What I know for sure is that the best instructors in the sport of golf could not go head to head with the lowest ranked player on the PGA tour.
Bottom line...I would not rule out anyone teaching ability based solely on their playing ability.

I have had a lot of lessons and everyone of the instructors could play at a pro level, not to say a tour level but all were capable of shooting in the 60's that is a far cry from a c player as mentioned above.