Integrity of videotaped runs... Sascha
- Thread starter Blackjack
- Start date
sausage
Banned
Cant we just let it rest already !!!
sascha did some wrong, we have come to terms already. he has admitted his wrong doing already and made his appologize already, and i for one have accepted it already.....
Sascha is the one who has to carry this weight around with him, and he has already regained my trust just for making a very bold appology in the height of the allogations....that right there says alot.
he did not crawl away with his tail between his legs and wait for the smoke to clear when we may have forgotten all about it...that again says alot !
Once Again, Sascha has my support. He is a great contributor to this forum and lets just leave it at that !!!
-Steve
sascha did some wrong, we have come to terms already. he has admitted his wrong doing already and made his appologize already, and i for one have accepted it already.....
Sascha is the one who has to carry this weight around with him, and he has already regained my trust just for making a very bold appology in the height of the allogations....that right there says alot.
he did not crawl away with his tail between his legs and wait for the smoke to clear when we may have forgotten all about it...that again says alot !
Once Again, Sascha has my support. He is a great contributor to this forum and lets just leave it at that !!!
-Steve
Steve:
Great post, and is exactly what I was thinking. There are certain factions, though, that think they're experts on the "character" of people, and just won't let it go. They hide behind the "but I'm just expressing my opinion, and you can't stop me from expressing my opinion gahdammit!" facade. And over, and over, and over in multiple posts. To those factions: "You don't like Sascha. You don't trust Sascha. We get it. Now let it go, and let's move on."
Sascha has my support. Just like you say, Steve, he didn't tuck tail and run. He confronted his accusers head-on, faced the indisputable facts, bowed his head, and apologized. He's an intelligent guy. I don't think we need to warn him that he's two strikes against him (to put it in baseball terms). And yes, even though this is his first infraction, it's an egregiously big one, that should count as "two" right out of the gate. He knows he can't commit a third. And unlike the "character experts" we seem to have on this board (character experts who live out in the styx and mainly play 14.1 alone, no less -- like they're an expert on "people"!), I don't think he'll commit a third.
Again, great post. I too plead with the readers to let this go. If you can't, just put Sascha on your "Ignore" list -- then you won't have to ever see his posts again. Problem solved.
Respectfully,
-Sean
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Honest High Run
Sascha,
I have been watching your videos and never doubted your claim, as i never would have beleived someone would do what you did and post it. All that aside I am curious as to what your high run actually is.
As for me, i have dabbled with 14.1 for a couple of years but never have taken seriously until recently. I do not have any substanstial runs on video but my high run was done at a local pool room here in vegas with a witness (funny thing is, this witness is a very good player to which i lost alot of money to one day playing one pocket.) after he seen me run 65 on a worn out green felted diamond table, he looked at me and said I wan't 9-7 from now on.
anyhow, i am looking forward to seeing what you post up as your new high run record.
jason
Sascha,
I have been watching your videos and never doubted your claim, as i never would have beleived someone would do what you did and post it. All that aside I am curious as to what your high run actually is.
As for me, i have dabbled with 14.1 for a couple of years but never have taken seriously until recently. I do not have any substanstial runs on video but my high run was done at a local pool room here in vegas with a witness (funny thing is, this witness is a very good player to which i lost alot of money to one day playing one pocket.) after he seen me run 65 on a worn out green felted diamond table, he looked at me and said I wan't 9-7 from now on.
anyhow, i am looking forward to seeing what you post up as your new high run record.
jason
sausage
Banned
when i was he ONLY ONE who condemned sascha he became immediately emboldened telling me that i should stay out of his posts and he'll stay out of mine. that didn't sound like someone who is carrying much shame.
and i just rebut the nonsense i'm getting and suddenly i'm beating a dead horse. that's bullshit. i'm one of the only ones here who DOESN'T have a facade. people can come to this thread and support sascha all they want. that's a double standard. furthermore, this thread hasn't gone on for very long. it's only been, what, two days and two pages? give me a break! and now, i'm getting more condemnation than the guy who defrauded us. this place is screwy....
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That is a very Bold Statement.......I dont have a Facade !
all i am saying is that, this forum is much different then other forums and we tend to treat people with a little more respect here.
No Wonder why so many great Poster's and Supporters have left this forum already !!!
Just My .02
-Steve
i may be wrong, but i tend to judge people a little more fairly !
Sascha is good people IMHO, in my eyes he just got caught up in things and forgot about whats truely important !
While i can understand the people who are all about forgiving, you can't really get on someones case if they don't feel the same as you.
The world is not "only positive feelings allowed"
As such, if someone wants to be mad because they feel they no longer can trust someone, they are perfectly entitled to feel that way.
I hold very strong convictions that i live my life by.
Of the issues that send me off the deep end, TRUST is the #1 thing.
If i feel that i can't trust someone, they do not become a part of my life.
If someone shows me that they are untrustworthy, they are removed from my life.
Why? Because once trust is taken advantage of or forsaken, for some people, it can NEVER be restored.
Once trust is shattered, then one must question everything else.
-What else did they lie about
-What is it they aren't telling me
-How are they going to take advantage of me the next time.
etc etc.
As such, I happen to agree with sausage that it is a character flaw.
As others have pointed out, it was multiple times, and it was only after it was exposed, did any type of damage control come into play.
Which leads those who do value trust to ask the questions.
-Why
-When will it happen again
-What else are they shady about
And if someone has to constantly ask themselves these questions, for some, it simply comes down to WHY BOTHER.
Sure, it is true that a lesson might have been learned.
Sure, it's possible that someone might better themselves from their mistakes.
But for some, they already know what they need to know, and don't want to waste any more energy on it and would rather move on.
And they feel that if any lessons were learned from this episode, to go find someone new to try your new found trustworthiness out on, you had your chance and you blew it.
On a final note.
I don't know sascha, and probably never will.
I have nothing personally invested, so to me, i don't really care that he did what he did.
But to others that were, it is perfectly understandable if they never trust him again, or even stop talking to him.
To me, that is what i would expect if i breached someones trust, and what i would do if they breached mine.
The world is not "only positive feelings allowed"
As such, if someone wants to be mad because they feel they no longer can trust someone, they are perfectly entitled to feel that way.
I hold very strong convictions that i live my life by.
Of the issues that send me off the deep end, TRUST is the #1 thing.
If i feel that i can't trust someone, they do not become a part of my life.
If someone shows me that they are untrustworthy, they are removed from my life.
Why? Because once trust is taken advantage of or forsaken, for some people, it can NEVER be restored.
Once trust is shattered, then one must question everything else.
-What else did they lie about
-What is it they aren't telling me
-How are they going to take advantage of me the next time.
etc etc.
As such, I happen to agree with sausage that it is a character flaw.
As others have pointed out, it was multiple times, and it was only after it was exposed, did any type of damage control come into play.
Which leads those who do value trust to ask the questions.
-Why
-When will it happen again
-What else are they shady about
And if someone has to constantly ask themselves these questions, for some, it simply comes down to WHY BOTHER.
Sure, it is true that a lesson might have been learned.
Sure, it's possible that someone might better themselves from their mistakes.
But for some, they already know what they need to know, and don't want to waste any more energy on it and would rather move on.
And they feel that if any lessons were learned from this episode, to go find someone new to try your new found trustworthiness out on, you had your chance and you blew it.
On a final note.
I don't know sascha, and probably never will.
I have nothing personally invested, so to me, i don't really care that he did what he did.
But to others that were, it is perfectly understandable if they never trust him again, or even stop talking to him.
To me, that is what i would expect if i breached someones trust, and what i would do if they breached mine.
Trust is something that is earned, and i get that !!
but the man has come clean and admitted his faults, so i am entitled to give him a fair shake and give him another chance....
of course at first for all of us, we won't trust what he says with a grain of salt or does and that is only natural.....but i am sure that the trust will be Re-Earned !!!
-Steve
but the man has come clean and admitted his faults, so i am entitled to give him a fair shake and give him another chance....
of course at first for all of us, we won't trust what he says with a grain of salt or does and that is only natural.....but i am sure that the trust will be Re-Earned !!!
-Steve
This forum also has too much of the "ahhh, he didn't really mean it, so it's OK" mentality. In the grand scheme of things, what Sasha did means nadda. However, if it happened against you in say a gambling match, would you be so quick to accept an apology?
I see deception in the pool world on a daily basis. Unfortunately, Joe Rogans characterization of Earl saying "pool is a beautiful game played by ugly people", is unfortunately true.
Sascha might be good people, but his actions show a character flaw. At the very least, he owes me an hour of time....or at least a beer (what can I say, I'm cheap)
sausage
Banned
above is what sascha said to me when i was the ONLY ONE condemning his actions. that doesn't sound very contrite to me.
that's the crux of my posts, RESPECT. clearly sascha has none for us why should we have respect for him?
i can't imagine uploading fraudulent vids for schmidt's viewing and comments. that's fricking wacked and definitely a RESPECT issue. and he doesn't even understand why i think he should change his avatar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sausage View Post
i'm one of the only ones here who DOESN'T have a facade.[/quote]
actually i did mean to say that i don't have a facade but it didn't come out right. what i mean by that is that i callem like i seeum. no BS....
SUPERSTAR and sausage (and others on the "one strike and you're out" trust thing):
I have just one question:
Q.: You guys are caught up in the "multiple times" thing. And those are the key words -- "caught up". Have you guys EVER been "caught up" yourselves in something, anything, and didn't necessarily think about it until someone point it out, and then you went, "Oh sh*t! What in the h*ll was I thinking?!?"?
SUP, your write-up is great -- well-composed and lucid. But I think the premise is a little too unforgiving, and, well, a little self-serving. Yes, trust is very important -- the "Rock of Gibraltar" that friendships and successful relationships are built on. But remember, everyone makes mistakes. Sometimes some really BONEHEADED ones. I know I've made some, and it didn't occur to me how boneheaded it was (even after I'd already done it a couple times) until it was pointed out to me. And I'm thankful to this day that the people affected by my boneheaded decisions/mistakes forgave me. I think Sascha just got "caught up" (there's that phrase again!) with the high run craze, and the exuberance short-circuited his ethics computer. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.
There are some very strongly ethical people in this world, who got that way precisely because they got caught doing things that, before getting caught, didn't occur to them was all that bad. Sometimes ethics isn't a "built-in" character property -- with some people, it's learned. A character "flaw" is only when someone repeatedly makes the same mistake, even *after* it's been pointed out numerous times, and they've been counseled on it.
This is not Salem, Massachusetts, and the time is not the 1600s, folks.
Respectfully,
-Sean
I have just one question:
Q.: You guys are caught up in the "multiple times" thing. And those are the key words -- "caught up". Have you guys EVER been "caught up" yourselves in something, anything, and didn't necessarily think about it until someone point it out, and then you went, "Oh sh*t! What in the h*ll was I thinking?!?"?
SUP, your write-up is great -- well-composed and lucid. But I think the premise is a little too unforgiving, and, well, a little self-serving. Yes, trust is very important -- the "Rock of Gibraltar" that friendships and successful relationships are built on. But remember, everyone makes mistakes. Sometimes some really BONEHEADED ones. I know I've made some, and it didn't occur to me how boneheaded it was (even after I'd already done it a couple times) until it was pointed out to me. And I'm thankful to this day that the people affected by my boneheaded decisions/mistakes forgave me. I think Sascha just got "caught up" (there's that phrase again!) with the high run craze, and the exuberance short-circuited his ethics computer. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.
There are some very strongly ethical people in this world, who got that way precisely because they got caught doing things that, before getting caught, didn't occur to them was all that bad. Sometimes ethics isn't a "built-in" character property -- with some people, it's learned. A character "flaw" is only when someone repeatedly makes the same mistake, even *after* it's been pointed out numerous times, and they've been counseled on it.
This is not Salem, Massachusetts, and the time is not the 1600s, folks.
Respectfully,
-Sean
sausage
Banned
DISCLAIMER: THE RED TEXT, AND ONLY THE RED TEXT BELOW IS DIRECTED AT, SEAN. HOWEVER, IT IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM REFLECTS THE OPINIONS OF SAUSAGE ENTERPRISES THEIR SUBSIDIARIES OR THEIR PET TURTLES.
sean: this isn't grand theft auto but AGAIN a respect issue. clearly sascha has none or he wouldn't have done that. AGAIN; when i was the first to unequivocally condemn his actions, he was anything but contrite. i'm not buying his apology. sorry....
like you, i only know about sacha's ethics from his posts and videos. i don't like cheaters especially those who cheat their "friends".
DISCLAIMER: SEAN DID NOT, I REPEAT, DID NOT WRITE THE QUOTED STATEMENT BELOW.
absolutely! and you don't learn character overnight .
sean: this isn't grand theft auto but AGAIN a respect issue. clearly sascha has none or he wouldn't have done that. AGAIN; when i was the first to unequivocally condemn his actions, he was anything but contrite. i'm not buying his apology. sorry....
like you, i only know about sacha's ethics from his posts and videos. i don't like cheaters especially those who cheat their "friends".
DISCLAIMER: SEAN DID NOT, I REPEAT, DID NOT WRITE THE QUOTED STATEMENT BELOW.
DISCLAIMER: MY STATEMENT BELOW IS NOT DIRECTED AT, SEAN.
absolutely! and you don't learn character overnight .
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Of course it's not Salem, but at the same time, i am not on a witch-hunt.
If you would like me to analyze, i will.
Is it fair to say that sascha knew the potential consequences of his actions?
I surely know the consequences of mine.
Don't you?
Surely, everyone who knows that they are doing something wrong, knows it has consequences.
It's not like the action was taken and he was completely naive about it.
He wouldn't have done it unless he thought he could get away with it.
And that begs to be labeled character flaw.
Which means, that given a situation, any situation, where someone thinks they can get away with it, they will try.
The only way he would knowingly put up a video where he KNEW he was going to get busted, is if he had some sick Munchhausen syndrome, and after getting busted, he said he was sorry and got the pity party that he so desperately wanted.
To me, these are the only two scenarios available, and i don't see him being a repeat offender, so i am ruling out Munchhausen syndrome.
Personally, i think people throw around this word mistake way too much for situations like these, trying to imply that the choices were beyond someone's control, but this is the furthest thing from the truth.
But to give the people who use the word mistake in this situation, i will give you the benefit of the doubt.
One time might be considered a mistake.
But multiple times in different videos based on the fact that he felt he got away with it cause no one spoke up? That is more then a mistake.
It is also an identifying component of someones personality.
This is an instance of deliberate action, and not a just mistake.
My stance is not too unforgiving. It is only unforgiving to those who would rather forgive. To someone like myself, not forgiving someone is perfectly normal.
It is self-serving. There is nothing wrong with that, especially when it REACTS to the way others act.
There is no rule that says, everyone has to think about others before they think about themselves.
Why is it that sascha can think about himself first in his self-serving fiasco, yet when someone else worries about themselves first as a RESULT of sascha's actions, and is critical of those actions, it is somehow deemed inappropriate or unfair?
I am not one to give a free pass on a deliberate action that takes advantage of my trust.
I can give a free pass on a legitimate mistake, but in this case, i don't see it as one.
To me, all that forgiving him is going to do, is reinforce the behavior, because no one holds sascha accountable.
And i am of the opinion, that the only way someone is going to learn, is if it costs them.
That's just how i see it.
I don't expect everyone to see it my way or relate to anyone that agrees, and that's ok.
Just a little food for thought, to those that don't understand the opposing point of view.
sausage
Banned
precisely!
additionally; as we all know, some of the best pool players in the world post here. posting fraudulent videos for their input is like taking lessons from a pro and cheating behind his back. it's just fricking weird. and for the rest of us non-pros, he thought nothing about wasting our time.
my greatest regret is that i don't have cable and can't watch most videos or i'd have exposed sascha long ago.
Everyone is entitled to there own opinion, and i repect that !!
at the same time, everyone is entitled to a second chance. with that in mind i am giving him that chance !
Like i have said before, sascha has stood up at the height of it all and admitted his wrong doing and appologized for causing everyone harm.... that takes a big man to admit ones guilt instead of walking away with his head bowed in shame !!
-Steve
i have said my peace, and now i am done !
at the same time, everyone is entitled to a second chance. with that in mind i am giving him that chance !
Like i have said before, sascha has stood up at the height of it all and admitted his wrong doing and appologized for causing everyone harm.... that takes a big man to admit ones guilt instead of walking away with his head bowed in shame !!
-Steve
i have said my peace, and now i am done !
sean: this isn't grand theft auto but AGAIN a respect issue. clearly sascha has none or he wouldn't have done that. AGAIN; when i was the first to unequivocally condemn his actions, he was anything but contrite. i'm not buying his apology. sorry....
like you, i only know about sacha's ethics from his posts and videos. i don't like cheaters especially those who cheat their "friends".
absolutely! and you don't learn character overnight .
sausage:
I think the reason why Sascha might've reacted the way he did, was precisely because you were so strongly condemning, when the overall feeling was a little more forgiving. You seem to talk about REACTION -- well, don't you think Sascha's was just that -- a reaction?
Anyway, let's just agree to disagree on this. I didn't intend to get embroiled in a back-and-forth banter, and quite frankly, I'm bowing out of this. Both sides have said their piece (or "peace," as it were), and that's that. The reason I got involved when I did, was the Bart Simpson-esque "Are we there yet? ...Just a little further..." continued condemnation of Sascha, when you made yourself very clear from the get-go.
And by the way, you need to be more careful in the future of how you quote people. A LOT MORE CAREFUL. That quote you show mid-way in your post above? That's not mine, and doesn't belong in the context of replying to my post, without attributing to the person who really wrote it. And you've also quoted my posts pretty sloppily, cutting out HUGE SWATHS of text and only replying to little "side" tidbits, but conveniently ignoring the juicy stuff that was the real point I was trying to get across to you. (In fact, when I read your replies, I said to myself, "whoa, what a HUGE f'ing snip! And he only replied to 'that' point, which wasn't the main one?") Just be more careful with this in the future, ok?
I'll leave it as we agree to disagree. I think that's fair; don't you?
Respectfully,
-Sean
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SUP:
Another great post, but as I wrote to sausage, I offer you the same -- that we'll just agree to disagree. I didn't want you to get into an analytical thing (as you mention above). Although you raise good points, I don't agree with all of them, and I won't get into a JB Cases-esque point-by-point dissection that looks like we both took the "red pill" to spiral down rabbit holes. I think it's just safe to say we respectfully agree to disagree with each other, right? We both said our piece (or "peace" as it were), and I think everything stands as it is, leaving it up to the reader to decide upon his/her own. I think that's fair.
Agree?
Respectfully,
-Sean