Interesting Article: Billiards Math is Hard

The most important billiards research now is organizing the WPBA or women players from around the world to join Matchroom.

Its a special mobilization operation. Women around the world have been neglected because of men.

The world would be a safer place if everyone played pool.

Snooker did not save the world. Matchroom nineball is saving the world and creating new sports stars.

In global affairs its a humanitarian crisis:
How would you rescue children from a warzone through the billiard industry?
What type of supplies can the billiard industry supply on the frontlines because it already has infrastructure in place?

Can anyone modify billiard equipment to be weaponized?
 
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Bob Jewett said:
No spin involved. From the article:

They typically assume that their billiard ball is an infinitely small, dimensionless point and that it bounces off the walls with perfect symmetry, departing at the same angle as it arrives, as seen below.​
​
Without friction, the ball travels indefinitely unless it reaches a corner, which stops the ball like a pocket. The reason billiards is so difficult to analyze mathematically is that two nearly identical shots landing on either side of a corner can have wildly diverging trajectories.​
​
Pool balls don't work like that. Not even close. The math "billiards" has almost nothing to do with real billiards. The people who study this stuff are happy with 99-rail shots or even 1000000-rail shots.
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Imagine if you will, a light beam with the mass of phenolic, the size of a pool ball with spin and friction working on it and you might as well just shoot a rack or two and take a few weeks off! ;)

It's an interesting article but imagine what those folks would do when they realized the friction of the rails change the spin on a ball.

I've always thought it would be fun to spin some balls in about 1/16" of water and watch the "rooster tails" come off of them with different spin. I'd imagine if you could figure a way to suspend a canvas above them and used paint of ink instead of water you could give some of the abstract artists a run for their money.

As a kid I used to play Lunar Pool on NES. It was fun as there were odd shaped tables and you could change gravity and friction. I wonder how spin would actually react in space?
 
Bob Jewett said:
They typically assume that their billiard ball is an infinitely small, dimensionless point and that it bounces off the walls with perfect symmetry, departing at the same angle as it arrives, as seen below.​
​
Without friction, the ball travels indefinitely unless it reaches a corner, which stops the ball like a pocket. The reason billiards is so difficult to analyze mathematically is that two nearly identical shots landing on either side of a corner can have wildly diverging trajectories.​
​
Pool balls don't work like that. Not even close. The math "billiards" has almost nothing to do with real billiards. The people who study this stuff are happy with 99-rail shots or even 1000000-rail shots.
Click to expand...
Exactly I said. They explain clearly their assumptions. You realize they know that spin and friction are real, right? They assumed them out because they aren't using advanced geometry to play better billiards, they are using billiards to think about and solve problems in advanced geometry.
 
This thread highlights/reminds me of how NON-TECHNICAL great pool really is. I say this because LOT of REALLY good players i've known over the yrs. could barely spell 'dog' and MAYBE got thru high-school. They figured out cb\ob overlaps and speed control without overthinking it. The game is WAY more right-brain art than left-brain science.
 
garczar said:
This thread highlights/reminds me of how NON-TECHNICAL great pool really is. I say this because LOT of REALLY good players i've known over the yrs. could barely spell 'dog' and MAYBE got thru high-school. They figured out cb\ob overlaps and speed control without overthinking it. The game is WAY more right-brain art than left-brain science.
Click to expand...
I totally agree, playing the game well is barely even a conscious exercise.

It is also amazing that our felt ocean is also, in many respects, a mystery even to mathematicians. Pool versus, say Chess, is a game of constrained infinity. No two games will ever be exactly the same. For me, that's the draw.
 
Bob Jewett said:
No spin involved. From the article:

They typically assume that their billiard ball is an infinitely small, dimensionless point and that it bounces off the walls with perfect symmetry, departing at the same angle as it arrives, as seen below.​
​
Without friction, the ball travels indefinitely unless it reaches a corner, which stops the ball like a pocket. The reason billiards is so difficult to analyze mathematically is that two nearly identical shots landing on either side of a corner can have wildly diverging trajectories.​
​
Pool balls don't work like that. Not even close. The math "billiards" has almost nothing to do with real billiards. The people who study this stuff are happy with 99-rail shots or even 1000000-rail shots.
Click to expand...
I is s the kind of self indulgent crap that gets kids beat up and then they end up just numb.
 
garczar said:
This thread highlights/reminds me of how NON-TECHNICAL great pool really is. I say this because LOT of REALLY good players i've known over the yrs. could barely spell 'dog' and MAYBE got thru high-school. They figured out cb\ob overlaps and speed control without overthinking it. The game is WAY more right-brain art than left-brain science.
Click to expand...
And don't forget that an intoxicant or 4 never slowed some of them down either!

Eek.
 
Ghost of OBC said:
I totally agree, playing the game well is barely even a conscious exercise.

It is also amazing that our felt ocean is also, in many respects, a mystery even to mathematicians. Pool versus, say Chess, is a game of constrained infinity. No two games will ever be exactly the same. For me, that's the draw.
Click to expand...
Oddly enough, even after all of games that have been recorded move for move ,sometimes for over 150 moves in a game, even at the highest levels , most games deviate from known move orders after about 20 moves, this includes all games played on the internet in the last 30 years or more. Amazing to me. there were over 1 billion games of chess played on chess.com in the month of February this year alone.
 
Bob Jewett said:
No spin involved. From the article:

They typically assume that their billiard ball is an infinitely small, dimensionless point and that it bounces off the walls with perfect symmetry, departing at the same angle as it arrives, as seen below.​
​
Without friction, the ball travels indefinitely unless it reaches a corner, which stops the ball like a pocket. The reason billiards is so difficult to analyze mathematically is that two nearly identical shots landing on either side of a corner can have wildly diverging trajectories.​
​
Pool balls don't work like that. Not even close. The math "billiards" has almost nothing to do with real billiards. The people who study this stuff are happy with 99-rail shots or even 1000000-rail shots.
Click to expand...

This area of math is more like the game of life (and other simple math simulations) than cue sports as you noted. I think the only overlap with real billiards is that something that seems so simple can be incredibly complex and beautiful.
 
book collector said:
Oddly enough, even after all of games that have been recorded move for move ,sometimes for over 150 moves in a game, even at the highest levels , most games deviate from known move orders after about 20 moves, this includes all games played on the internet in the last 30 years or more. Amazing to me. there were over 1 billion games of chess played on chess.com in the month of February this year alone.
Click to expand...
You play on chess.com?
 
book collector said:
Oddly enough, even after all of games that have been recorded move for move ,sometimes for over 150 moves in a game, even at the highest levels , most games deviate from known move orders after about 20 moves, this includes all games played on the internet in the last 30 years or more. Amazing to me. there were over 1 billion games of chess played on chess.com in the month of February this year alone.
Click to expand...
I wonder how often identical layouts happen later in the game. By some quick math, there are 23×10^12 possible layouts, but that was with each pawn having seven possible locations. Obviously, many pawns end up deadlocked and captured, ignoring the pawns leaves 2.4×10^20 but I didnt fully account for occupying squares.
 
T
tomatoshooter said:
I wonder how often identical layouts happen later in the game. By some quick math, there are 23×10^12 possible layouts, but that was with each pawn having seven possible locations. Obviously, many pawns end up deadlocked and captured, ignoring the pawns leaves 2.4×10^20 but I didnt fully account for occupying squares.
Click to expand...
They consider the first different move, to begin a completely unknown game. There are hundreds of thousands of end games where there are x amount of pieces on the board and they know that it is a forced win or draw, for one side or the other, but that is irrelevant as far as the statistics go.
 
Speaking of "billiard" books that have nothing to do with billiards, here's one that was just recommended to me by Ebay. In the fine print it is listed as a "colouring book for adults."

Screenshot 2024-05-03 182635.png


I thought that couldn't be correct so I looked around and found this description on another site that looks suspiciously like something a bad AI system would write.

Product details

Hello and welcome to 3 Cushion billiards Hybrid systems. Do you find it difficult to apply the systems you know? Are you tired of memorizing separate formulas for each system? Or are you looking for different and easy to implement billiard systems? Hybrid systems can give you all of these. A single formula used in almost all systems, simple system scores, the easiest system you will ever see in terms of calculation and implementation. Systems from a new perspective that you won't find anywhere else. Start trying it now. In the first book of the series, you will find detailed information and some tips on how to apply the system. In the rest of the series, you will find more tips and tricks that will make it easier for you in the game. These tips will be useful no matter which system you use.

Hybrid: Three Cushion Billiards - Hybrid Systems 1 (Paperback)
 
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