Interesting Cue ball foul rule and Forfeiting Question?

L

Lynch

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So the 14.1 league I play in we play fouls in 2 ways depending on your opponent. We either do "All ball fouls" where if you touch a ball you lose a point and forfeit your turn at the table(which I prefer) or if you bump a ball it's your opponents option to put it back, but you don't lose a point and get to continue shooting.

I asked my opponent last night (new to the league and from NY) how he wanted to play fouls. He said that he plays "by the book" and said that if I inadvertently touch a ball I get to continue shooting, but can't shoot at that ball for 3 consecutive shots. I said that's fine and we played that way but have never heard of that before. Is this a common way to play?

For the forfeit question, what do you guys think about forfeiting during league play? This has happened to me a couple times over the course of a few sessions where my opponent just unscrews his cue and throws in the towel. My same opponent from last night did this as well. We had just started and I was up like 25-4 or something like that and after missing a particular easy shot he threw in the towel and said he can't make a ball. I'm not a 100 ball runner or anything and wasn't really playing well either but I don't understand joining a league, then showing up for a match and just quitting when things aren't going your way. I've had this happen to me a couple other times, usually when I'm playing well and getting close to the finish line. I would never quit on my opponent during a league or tourney match of any kind, unless of course their was an emergency situation or something. Mark Haddad was in the league last session and drilled me. I wasn't playing well and he was playing solid, but there was no way I wasn't going to finish the match. Is forfeiting a league or tourney match more common than I think and really not a big deal or somewhat unsportsmanlike?

Thanks for any and all input!
 
Lynch said:
So the 14.1 league I play in we play fouls in 2 ways depending on your opponent. We either do "All ball fouls" where if you touch a ball you lose a point and forfeit your turn at the table(which I prefer) or if you bump a ball it's your opponents option to put it back, but you don't lose a point and get to continue shooting.

I asked my opponent last night (new to the league and from NY) how he wanted to play fouls. He said that he plays "by the book" and said that if I inadvertently touch a ball I get to continue shooting, but can't shoot at that ball for 3 consecutive shots. I said that's fine and we played that way but have never heard of that before. Is this a common way to play?

For the forfeit question, what do you guys think about forfeiting during league play? This has happened to me a couple times over the course of a few sessions where my opponent just unscrews his cue and throws in the towel. My same opponent from last night did this as well. We had just started and I was up like 25-4 or something like that and after missing a particular easy shot he threw in the towel and said he can't make a ball. I'm not a 100 ball runner or anything and wasn't really playing well either but I don't understand joining a league, then showing up for a match and just quitting when things aren't going your way. I've had this happen to me a couple other times, usually when I'm playing well and getting close to the finish line. I would never quit on my opponent during a league or tourney match of any kind, unless of course their was an emergency situation or something. Mark Haddad was in the league last session and drilled me. I wasn't playing well and he was playing solid, but there was no way I wasn't going to finish the match. Is forfeiting a league or tourney match more common than I think and really not a big deal or somewhat unsportsmanlike?

Thanks for any and all input!
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I've never heard of the bolded part.

I'm not a fan of people forfeiting in a league because in a league you are there to play and enjoy the experience. If it is a handicapped league a forfeit will cause problems.

In a tournament I don't have a problem with people forfeiting - gets me closer to the finals.
 
lynch said:
so the 14.1 league i play in we play fouls in 2 ways depending on your opponent. We either do "all ball fouls" where if you touch a ball you lose a point and forfeit your turn at the table(which i prefer) or if you bump a ball it's your opponents option to put it back, but you don't lose a point and get to continue shooting.

I asked my opponent last night (new to the league and from ny) how he wanted to play fouls. He said that he plays "by the book" and said that if i inadvertently touch a ball i get to continue shooting, but can't shoot at that ball for 3 consecutive shots. I said that's fine and we played that way but have never heard of that before. Is this a common way to play?

For the forfeit question, what do you guys think about forfeiting during league play? This has happened to me a couple times over the course of a few sessions where my opponent just unscrews his cue and throws in the towel. My same opponent from last night did this as well. We had just started and i was up like 25-4 or something like that and after missing a particular easy shot he threw in the towel and said he can't make a ball. I'm not a 100 ball runner or anything and wasn't really playing well either but i don't understand joining a league, then showing up for a match and just quitting when things aren't going your way. I've had this happen to me a couple other times, usually when i'm playing well and getting close to the finish line. I would never quit on my opponent during a league or tourney match of any kind, unless of course their was an emergency situation or something. Mark haddad was in the league last session and drilled me. I wasn't playing well and he was playing solid, but there was no way i wasn't going to finish the match. Is forfeiting a league or tourney match more common than i think and really not a big deal or somewhat unsportsmanlike?

Thanks for any and all input!
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thats an interesting one for a league situation, especially if keeping track of b.p.i. Of the games.

Obviously a forfiet would be a win for the opponent, but how do you score the b.p.i. In that situation.

I am real curious myself as to what the answer is, sInce i run a league on long island.

-steve
 
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I had never heard of it either but have only been playing for a few years.....Our league operator doesn't keep track of b.p.i. or anything. The league is handicapped and you go up or down depending on how you do each week. You play one opponent 2 games each week. If you win both, your hc goes up 5 balls, lose both down 5 balls, and if you split it stays the same. There is a good payout at the end which goes off of your win/loss record so someone forfeiting definitely plays a factor in a negative way....I really don't like to win like that and never have. It drives me crazy to be honest lol! What can you do. We always get a couple new people to the league every session and at least half of them drop out at some point......This actually really screws up the schedule and payout at the end. With this person, it's possible he may not make it to the end either (play all his matches) and if he doesn't all matches with him won or lost will not count and will be recorded like they never happened. I do like this approach. There is a big speech by the league operator every session about people dropping out and that if you are going to play past the second week, you should ride out the session. Same story though, people will make the commitment and then not follow through.....My opponent could have been just having a bad day I guess and hopefully he sticks it out and we don't lose him or anyone else but odds are that won't be the case. I know i've gotten a little off topic here but thanks for the responses I really appreciate it. I'm fairly new to the game but really enjoy it!
 
I have always been under the impression that if you bumped a ball you could not shoot it as your next shot.
forfeiting with a long way to go until the end of the match does not make sense to me. This is league play. We should be playing for the fun. If we miss some easy shots we expect our opponent to do the same. Keep playing. I have overcome 30 ball deficits and have lost out while leading by as much as forty balls. Neither I nor my usual opponents are 30-40 ball runners. We just keep playing for the fun of it,hoping to improve.
 
Lynch said:
I asked my opponent last night (new to the league and from NY) how he wanted to play fouls. He said that he plays "by the book" and said that if I inadvertently touch a ball I get to continue shooting, but can't shoot at that ball for 3 consecutive shots. I said that's fine and we played that way but have never heard of that before. Is this a common way to play?
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By what book? Perhaps this rule is covered in the code of Hammurabi.

Does this mean that if there are just two balls left on the table when an object ball is unintentionally moved that a runout is no longer permitted under the rules?

I've never heard of this rule before.

PS At league level, I find "all ball fouls" to be ridiculous.
 
Been playing since 1959 and have never heard of such a rule. I also play in a handicap league where final standings are based on how many points you scored through the year including handicap points. Forfeits can't happen.
 
sjm said:
By what book? Perhaps this rule is covered in the code of Hammurabi.

Does this mean that if there are just two balls left on the table when an object ball is unintentionally moved that a runout is no longer permitted under the rules?

I've never heard of this rule before.

PS At league level, I find "all ball fouls" to be ridiculous.
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I thought this rule sounded crazy to me too.....This is why I thought I would post it here to see if anyone else had heard of it. It must have been some in-house rule somewhere....I wasn't going to make a big deal out of it. There are some others that feel the same as you do about "all ball fouls" which I completely understand. Tom Ross played in the league for years and feels this way and when I play with him we never play that way. It is a tough rule considering if your shirt barely nicks a ball it's a foul and it's tough for people to see and especially the person shooting...To be honest I don't really care as long as my opponent and I go with one rule set or another. At the core, I just want to run balls and get lost in the game.
 
kaznj said:
I have always been under the impression that if you bumped a ball you could not shoot it as your next shot.
forfeiting with a long way to go until the end of the match does not make sense to me. This is league play. We should be playing for the fun. If we miss some easy shots we expect our opponent to do the same. Keep playing. I have overcome 30 ball deficits and have lost out while leading by as much as forty balls. Neither I nor my usual opponents are 30-40 ball runners. We just keep playing for the fun of it,hoping to improve.
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I couldn't agree more, that's why I posted this because I was curious if forfeiting was a common thing since I don't really understand it. The way the league is handicapped anyone can win. For me to have a winning record in the league I have to play really well and outrun the nuts. It's fun though and I get to compete against others playing a great game where I have to utilize all shots.
 
Under the usual "cue ball fouls only" rule there is no embargo on touched balls. If you are trying to shoot over the 2 and you touch it but haven't shot yet and you let your opponent move the 2 back or leave it alone -- he chooses one -- you are then free to change your mind and shoot the 2 on that very same shot.

Of course TDs are free to make up their own rules about such things.

In the league I play in we follow the BCAPL rule on "cue ball fouls only" which states that if you move two or more balls, it's a foul (Rule 1-33).
 
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I've heard of not shooting at a touched ball on your next shot but never 3 shots in a row.
 
I've NEVER heard of any such ruling.! 3shots, that's ludicrous. Get real ppl. All fouls or cb fouls ONLY! sounds like a kinky back woods... Making it easier for the loser to catch up/win rule.! Never heard of it... Enjoy your so called "game" ! Bye 👋 now...
 
Further more, read Mosconi' Lil book on 14-1. Can't shoot at a ball 3 times crap. Who in the area knows what 14-1 is? Ha, interesting.
 
I have been involved in local 14.1 leagues for a number of years and feel it is best to have your league's rules identified (such as WPA World Standardized Rules). Urge league members to read and be familiar those rules before game number 1 of the season. This goes a long way to preventing disputes.

If you have any "league house rules" it is best to define those also.
 
mnhighrunlist said:
I have been involved in local 14.1 leagues for a number of years and feel it is best to have your league's rules identified (such as WPA World Standardized Rules). Urge league members to read and be familiar those rules before game number 1 of the season. This goes a long way to preventing disputes.

If you have any "league house rules" it is best to define those also.
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Totally agree :thumbup:


I run a small league and had a few forfeits.It's not fun for the guy who shows to play and then all of sudden he has no match. We have decided to inflict pain to anyone who forfeits. Your handicap goes up and you do not register a loss. And for the opponent he gets a win without handicap going up. You can also establish some parameters for a forfeit. For example whenever a player is within 5 to ten balls from winning, his opponent can concede the match.
 
I don't know anything about league rules, but a friend and I have come up with a happy medium regarding cue ball fouls only.

I mentioned this once quite a while back. We think its better than just cb fouls because it keeps you cautious.

If you touch an object ball it is an immediate 5 ball penalty and you can remain at the table shooting. This is a good way to practice with a friend, and keep from getting sloppy.
 
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