International Open

[AtLarge]

I've never seen the even number player break when the score adds up to an odd number. That would be a first for me, but please show me one tournament where it was done that way. I love the stats that you provide but please don't confuse people about something as basic as this. It's only been done one way in every tournament I've ever been involved in (hundreds) and every tournament I've ever gone to (thousands).

It's possible a mistake was made in the breaking order in this match. That is a common occurence when playing alternate break. That is why we just remember to look at the score and if the total is "even" the winner of the lag breaks (the first breaker) and if it's "odd" the other player breaks. KISS

Jay, it's just two ways of keeping track of the same thing. It's not that one tournament does it one way and another tournament does it another way. They are two ways of thinking to achieve the same thing -- the correct breaking order. And I assure you, I am not the only one who usually thinks of it in terms of the number of the game coming up. After all, the winner of the lag breaks the first game, i.e. #1, which is an odd number.

Your way -- Orcollo won the lag, so he breaks when the total score of games already played is even, starting with the first game at a score of 0-0.

My way -- Orcollo won the lag, so he breaks in odd-numbered games, starting with Game 1.

They produce the same result. One is not easy and the other hard. It's not a matter of KISS.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Score 0-0

Rack 1 Winner of lag (Dennis) breaks
Rack 2 (Albin)
Rack 3 (Dennis)
4 - A
5- D
6 - A
7 - D
8 - A
9 - D
10 - A
11- D
12 - A
13 - D
14- A
15- D (this is where Albin broke a 2nd time instead of Dennis)

 

[AtLarge]

Going by these videos it appears that somewhere in the match the breaking order got reversed. Simple math, starting with Dennis breaking at 0-0 will tell you this. At what point in the match the players got confused on the breaking order we don't know. This is a fault of the referee to allow this to happen.

Yes we do know where the breaking order got reversed.

 

[jay helfert]

Score 0-0

Rack 1 Winner of lag (Dennis) breaks
Rack 2 (Albin)
Rack 3 (Dennis)
4 - A
5- D
6 - A
7 - D
8 - A
9 - D
10 - A
11- D
12 - A
13 - D
14- A
15- D (this is where Albin broke a 2nd time instead of Dennis)

There you go, thanks. The score was 7-7 at this point and it was Dennis' break. 7+7 = 14. That is an even number last time I checked.

 

[Jaden]

There is only one way to look at it, and the player when wins the lag breaks first when the score is 0-0. His opponent will now break in the next game when the score is 1-0. After the second game the score will be either 1-1 or 2-0 and the EVEN NUMBERED player (same one who won the lag) will be breaking. At Large made a mistake here and you are only compounding it. This is Basic 9-Ball 101 and I shouldn't have to explain this again.

0 is an even number.

first breaker is even total of games, second breaker is odd number of total games.

Everyone needs to stop making it so complicated...

Jaden

 

[Island Drive]

Long ago I found out how difficult it was to remember ''who broke first'', in a long race after playing many hours in the late night/am times.

To ruin your relationship/action/business with your opponent over such a simple mistake is bad for business.

So what I do is this. I tell my opponent, 0 is an even number?

WTF huh?

Well it works, because everyone KNOWS 0 is not an even number. And when you say it to them they question you.

So when the match was tied at 10/10 after 2 hrs + of play, we both Knew the first breaker was the EVEN number.

No one forgets when you tell em ''zero is an even number''. Because it's NOT.

 

[AtLarge]

''Jeremy didn't say anything''

It's not his place....

I wasn't suggesting that Jeremy would get involved in correcting the error. But if he noticed it, he might well mention it in the commentary.

 

[Jaden]

Long ago I found out how difficult it was to remember ''who broke first'', in a long race after playing many hours in the late night/am times.

To ruin your relationship/action/business with your opponent over such a simple mistake is bad for business.

So what I do is this. I tell my opponent, 0 is an even number?

WTF huh?

Well it works, because everyone KNOWS 0 is not an even number. And when you say it to them they question you.

So when the match was tied at 10/10 after 2 hrs + of play, we both Knew the first breaker was the EVEN number.

No one forgets when you tell em ''zero is an even number''. Because it's NOT.

I'm a math teacher, zero is an even number.

Jaden

 

[Joe_Jaguar]

Jay, it's just two ways of keeping track of the same thing. It's not that one tournament does it one way and another tournament does it another way. They are two ways of thinking to achieve the same thing -- the correct breaking order. And I assure you, I am not the only one who usually thinks of it in terms of the number of the game coming up. After all, the winner of the lag breaks the first game, i.e. #1, which is an odd number.

Your way -- Orcollo won the lag, so he breaks when the total score of games already played is even, starting with the first game at a score of 0-0.

My way -- Orcollo won the lag, so he breaks in odd-numbered games, starting with Game 1.

They produce the same result. One is not easy and the other hard. It's not a matter of KISS.

"My way -- Orcollo won the lag, so he breaks in odd-numbered games, starting with Game 1."

Funny, I can't remember any commentators on any stream lately I can think of who have done it differently than this.

 

[garczar]

I'm a math teacher, zero is an even number.

Jaden

But '1' is the loneliest number. Just ask 'ThreeDogNight'.

 

[BeiberLvr]

There you go, thanks. The score was 7-7 at this point and it was Dennis' break. 7+7 = 14. That is an even number last time I checked.

Albin won 13-6

 

[garczar]

There you go, thanks. The score was 7-7 at this point and it was Dennis' break. 7+7 = 14. That is an even number last time I checked.

Its also the 15th game, Dennis breaks.

 

[WGDave]

I'm a math teacher, zero is an even number.

Jaden

That’s correct.

Any number that can be divided by 2 and results in a whole number is considered even.

On another note to those that write the firmware for the scoring software shown during matches, you could write code to indicate break status for alternate break matches very easily. This is for dummies like me that lose track.

 

[jay helfert]

"My way -- Orcollo won the lag, so he breaks in odd-numbered games, starting with Game 1."

Funny, I can't remember any commentators on any stream lately I can think of who have done it differently than this.

I can't remember seeing any commentators breaking the balls either.

 

[Fatboy]

I’m still trying to figure out who’s on first?……..

 

[Oze147]

Just to add some confusion:

The winner of the lag doesn't break first, but he can decide who breaks first.
In 9ball it is of course an advantage to break first, so everybody assumes that the winner of the lag will take the break.
In 14.1, for example, most players take the option to hand the break over to their opponent.

 

[HawaiianEye]

I’m still trying to figure out who’s on first?……..

I am still trying to figure out why they keep playing the alternate break formats.

Play long races and winner breaks.

 

[Island Drive]

I'm a math teacher, zero is an even number.

Jaden

Really, thx. I always thought 1 was odd 2 was even and 0 was not in play, till another number joins the zero.

 

[Island Drive]

I am still trying to figure out why they keep playing the alternate break formats.

Play long races and winner breaks.

Better yet, like tennis do sets with breaks between each set.
Semi pro best 2 outta three, and in the pros, best 3 outta 5.
Works for tennis for decades.
The spot shot thing tho, is childish.
Be like watching Nicklaus tied after 18 holes do a shoot out with closest to the hole on a par three for the win.

 

[WGDave]

I can't remember seeing any commentators breaking the balls either.

Question for you Jay as an experienced tournament director.

Someone that is paying attention sitting arena side gets the attention of the referee as Albin is about to get down on the break to bring attention to the fact that the break is out of order.

Is this person:

*Escorted from the arena
*Thanked for pointing it out

This is assuming that this person is correct.