IPT criticism over the top.. Even my own..

mnorwood

mnorwood

Moon
Silver Member
I spoke with Hill Billy tonight and we briefly discussed the IPT. Although I beleive criticism is healthy when attempting to improve anything, I agree with Hill Billy that alot of it is over the top. After talking with him I came to the following conclusions:

1. The rest of the pro pool world is floundering. Glass City is defunked and the latest 14.1 tourny was a flop. Eventhough the IPT is imperfect it is much better than anything out there.

2. The IPT is just getting started. No one can expect it to be good from the start. Real judgements can't be made for at least 2 years.

3. Criticism is good but it should be constructive. I am going to curtail my caustic statements.

4. Like obi wan kenobi Kevin Trudeau is our only hope to be a legit sport.

One other note: I think Hill Billy is a real asset to the sport I am looking forward to seeing him in action.
 
Odds are . . .

If real judgments can't be made for at least two years the odds are pretty good that there won't be anything left to judge by the time you feel it is fair to judge the IPT. The IPT's first TV production was pretty dismal. The first of it's new series of productions seemed intent on glorifying Mike Sigel at the expense of all other IPT players and the IPT at the expense of the rest of the pool world.

I have to say that if KT and the decision makers for the IPT think that giving the impression that the players on the IPT are bumbling amateurs and clowns is going to have wide appeal to the general public they are sadly mistaken. I will watch almost any sport when it is performed well. According to the announcers, most of what was shown on this last show should have never made the airwaves.

If this is the salvation of pool we are far worse off than I thought. The truth is that pool is in better shape than it has been since the early nineteen hundreds without the IPT. If the IPT destroys the other tours as it seems intent on doing and then disappears it will indeed have done pool a great harm despite the people who think things couldn't be worse.

Time will tell but I see no reason to coddle the IPT while it seems intent in destroying or running down everything else in the pool world. I hope it is a success or a quick failure, otherwise the pool world will be badly damaged. Other tours and events didn't emerge overnight the size they are now. If they disappear, it will be many years before they rebuild or are replaced.

Hu


mnorwood said:
I spoke with Hill Billy tonight and we briefly discussed the IPT. Although I beleive criticism is healthy when attempting to improve anything, I agree with Hill Billy that alot of it is over the top. After talking with him I came to the following conclusions:

1. The rest of the pro pool world is floundering. Glass City is defunked and the latest 14.1 tourny was a flop. Eventhough the IPT is imperfect it is much better than anything out there.

2. The IPT is just getting started. No one can expect it to be good from the start. Real judgements can't be made for at least 2 years.

3. Criticism is good but it should be constructive. I am going to curtail my caustic statements.

4. Like obi wan kenobi Kevin Trudeau is our only hope to be a legit sport.

One other note: I think Hill Billy is a real asset to the sport I am looking forward to seeing him in action.
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mnorwood said:
1. The rest of the pro pool world is floundering. Glass City is defunked and the latest 14.1 tourny was a flop. Eventhough the IPT is imperfect it is much better than anything out there.
.
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Dude.....what good can it do to take pot shots at the recent 14.1 Worlds tourney and call it a flop? You may not like Dragon promotions, or straight pool, or how the thing was run, but if you love the game in general, it can only hurt things.

How many events that size have you put together?.....I have done exactly zero. I have run small tourneys, and they can be a headache. You may not like Charlie and Dragon, but at least they are trying. And if you have done big events.....you know what they have just accomplished.

Gerry
 
Gerry said:
Dude.....what good can it do to take pot shots at the recent 14.1 Worlds tourney and call it a flop? You may not like Dragon promotions, or straight pool, or how the thing was run, but if you love the game in general, it can only hurt things.

How many events that size have you put together?.....I have done exactly zero. I have run small tourneys, and they can be a headache. You may not like Charlie and Dragon, but at least they are trying. And if you have done big events.....you know what they have just accomplished.
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Gerry, I just have to comment on your avatar. It looks EXACTLY like a pool room I frequented 20-plus years ago in Durham, North Carolina, called the Sportsman Lounge, if memory serves me right. They had a parrot in the front room that spoke pool jargon, and in the back room, there was a snooker table which every single day had a poker game being played on it (LOL). :cool:

I was on the road, en route to the deep South, and my road partner got himself a game at the Durham pool room. He was taking the heat, getting beat on a field of green for the cash. He was one of these pool players who didn't take losing very well. :o

During a crucial match, he was getting ready to fire in the game-winning ball for the cheese. He failed, leaving the money ball in the jaws of the pocket. Right at that moment, the pool parrot speaks: "Good shot." I thought he was going to strangle that bird. :D

Back on topic of the thread, any pool event is better than no pool event. For the straight pool lovers, this Dragon Promotions tournament was a real treat. I've been to some events when a player didn't know when their next match was, requiring one to wait anywhere from 1 hour to 5 hours. DCC comes to mind, as an example, with the buy-backs, but fortunately there's a whole slew of activities going on to hold one's interest. And then there's those events in the summer where there is a lack of air-conditioning, making the wet tables roll kind of funny. I like to see a LEVEL playing field where all players are treated equal.

I'm sure Charlie Williams may have some unkind things to say about events he has attended as well as the promoters and/or TDs who run them, but I have NEVER seen him bash another, publicly or in private. Instead, he keeps striving to take pool to another level by having $20,000-plus payouts. That's a good thing, IMHO, and the players like to compete in events where there's decent payouts.

Sometimes folks are too quick to judge promoters and/or TDs, calculating the added monies, entry fees, and then coming to the wrong conclusion the the promoter and/or TD is making a huge profit. Nothing could be further from the truth. Do you think these venue sites which host pool events come for free? The pool table vendors charge a large sum for setting up the equipment, and rightfully so. Imagine having to move these tables cross-country on a regular basis. Then you must have some staff to ensure the tournament runs smoothly.

I am sure the next straight pool event will have all the kinks worked out. I enjoyed reading the updates on the 14.1 tournament in New Jersey. Thorsten Hohmann just might be the player of the year, IMHO!:)

JAM
 
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Actually JAM the picture is of a room in Downingtown PA called D&D Family Billiards. The owner is "highrun55" here on AZB. It used to be called The Cue Corner back when I worked there about 15 years ago. It's one of those great old school pool rooms.

Gerry
 
mnorwood said:
4. Like obi wan kenobi Kevin Trudeau is our only hope to be a legit sport.
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I agree with most of what you said, but not all.

Kevin Trudeau is not our only hope. That is a lie that is being fed by people that are excited about filling their pockets with his money. Kevin's money is not what everybody should be concentrating on.

Our hope is that the game of pool has the power to appeal to a larger audience. When we place our faith in people, we will always be disappointed. People are not perfect. They make mistakes. Kevin has made mistakes in the past and chances are he will make mistakes in the future. I think its unfair to expect one man to provide so much so quickly without the expectation that some things will not go as planned.

Our only hope for pool to become a legitimate sport is for the players and the industry to take personal responsibility for its current condition, then take measures to bring it back to life. We don't need hype, we don't need billionaires that don't have the best interests of the sport at the forefront. We need people that care about pool more than they care about money.

IMO, the IPT can be a good thing if they would shift the focus on the game of pool. From what I see, they are presenting the personalities and drama first, and the competition and the game of pool is an afterthought - something that sort of occurs in the background. The game of pool deserves more respect than that.

The players have to start playing from their hearts, not their wallets. When they start to do that, the other problems will take care of themselves. This lie of "we need a savior" is simply that; a lie. We all need to get off our butts (individually and collectively) and start promoting the sport positively. We should have been doing that whether or not we have the IPT.

To my knowledge, there is still nothing in place that would protect the players if the IPT does not work out. The players are still at the mercy of the tour with no representation. If this tour is unsuccessful, the players will be right back where they started. I hope KT takes a look at that, I would be more than willing to assist KT and Deno (at no charge) to set something up that would assist the players in that area. I am more than willing to make the game of pool better for the industry and the players - regardless of my personal opinions about this entity. If it helps the players and ultimately helps the sport, I am all for it.

Kevin and his staff have the opportunity to take the sport to the next level. Why they choose to focus on everything BUT the game of pool is a mystery to me. Pool is a great game that has the power to draw people in without all of the hype. We have a sport that is widely misunderstood and misrepresented in the media. KT has the opportunity to change that, and to display our game in its truest form like we've never seen before. He also has the power to communicate to the players. He also has the power and the opportunity to shelter players from having to resort to making bad deals with people that have no other agenda except ripping off pool players that are desperate for money and help. Kevin has many opportunities and he has the resources to create a great tour that can last a long time. Hopefully he is building this thing on solid ground. As a player, I have seen too many sand castles get washed away with the tide.

I hope Kevin Trudeau's commitment to the game of pool and the players is stronger than his commitment to some of his past projects. If it is, perhaps the sport will see another tremendous surge in growth like we saw in the late 1980's. We were unprepared back then and we were unable to ride that wave for very long. Hopefully this time things will be different.
 
Blackjack said:
I agree with most of what you said, but not all.

Kevin Trudeau is not our only hope. That is a lie that is being fed by people that are excited about filling their pockets with his money. Kevin's money is not what everybody should be concentrating on...Hopefully this time things will be different.
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Blackjack, ask some of the players on today's tournament trail about the latest developments.

There are some pool folk who do believe in the IPT's vision, and because of it, players have entered into contracts with agents, guaranteeing a monthly salary.

Sponsors are jumping on the band wagon too, paying pool players monthly monies to keep them on the tournament trail.

I see a big change on the horizon, and I think the IPT is responsible for it. JMHO, FWIW.

JAM
 
The doom and gloom crowd seems pretty quick to find fault with the IPT...but I don't see them offering any solutions to make things better...and I don't see them doing anything...just knocking someone else who is at least trying.
Go out, earn a couple of million, pour it into a new business venture, set up high paying tournaments, organize the best pool players in the world, negotiate television rights, produce television shows, get them on the air, and try not to run out of cash before it all comes together. Oh, yeah...don't forget to try and make every pool forum junkie happy with everything you do at the same time. When you have done that, you have earned the right to criticize the IPT and Kevin.
JMHO
Steve
 
gulfportdoc said:
Love it! Do you have any pictures of the interior? ~Doc
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Go here Doc

www.thebilliardstour.com

if you ever saw the list of players that have been in that 8 table room for tourneys your head would spin!

Hopkins
Sigel
Rempe
Varner
Colavito
Baroutti
Fusco's
Corr
Deuel
etc.
and a buttload of juniors that I can't remember now....seems they all came from the Carolinas, with a pocket full of money, and didn't miss!:D

Gerry
 
I was skeptical from the start. Don't get me wrong, any promotion of Pool
in a positive manner is great for the sport. KT has aligned himself with a great wholesome group of people (typical of what Nascar sponors do).
Image is everything to these folks. They want to go to market with "Safe"
public figures that won't let them down.

However, If this promotion does not generate the cash flow of the Natural Cure package KT will drop Pool like a Hot Potato and find another way to go to market. That is the bottom line, as with any new business venture
it may lose money for a year or two, but then if the projections don't come in, he will move on.

If i was as good as the players on the tour, i would take advantage of the situation while it last's.

I hope it is a huge succsess, and the players on the tour make allot of money and save it.:)
 
mnorwood said:
4. Like obi wan kenobi Kevin Trudeau is our only hope to be a legit sport.
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Boy we're in sorry shape. Isn't this the same guy that said taking baking soda cured cancer?
 
Gerry said:
Actually JAM the picture is of a room in Downingtown PA called D&D Family Billiards. The owner is "highrun55" here on AZB. It used to be called The Cue Corner back when I worked there about 15 years ago. It's one of those great old school pool rooms.

Gerry
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WOW! I was just thinking about that poolhall... and I was like, "Nah! That can't be the pool rooom by my sister's house........" Well.... IT IS!!! I like that room.

Nice!
 
What???

CaptainHook said:
I was skeptical from the start. Don't get me wrong, any promotion of Pool
in a positive manner is great for the sport. KT has aligned himself with a great wholesome group of people (typical of what Nascar sponors do).
Image is everything to these folks. They want to go to market with "Safe"
public figures that won't let them down.

However, If this promotion does not generate the cash flow of the Natural Cure package KT will drop Pool like a Hot Potato and find another way to go to market. That is the bottom line, as with any new business venture
it may lose money for a year or two, but then if the projections don't come in, he will move on.

If i was as good as the players on the tour, i would take advantage of the situation while it last's.

Cuedog:
Sound advice.

I hope it is a huge succsess, and the players on the tour make allot of money and save it.:)
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I'm confused as to what you think is the alternative to getting out of a floundering or even dying business. Should a business man continue to lose money if he feels the writing is on the wall?

Some are acting like KT is the FATHER of pool and that he should have unconditional love for pool whether it is worth it or not. I don't condone some of the things I have heard about KT, but I can surely understand the business end of it, and that it is JUST THAT...a business venture to him. Why expect more from a casual player?

Besides, if he becomes bored with it, because of lack of adequate revenue, he will simply sell it to the highest bidder. The longer the IPT stays around, the more potential there is for a take over or buy out anyhow.

We've long needed a business mind to escort us into the lime light. Maybe KT is just that person that can at least give pool a kick start in that direction. Most need to calm down. Personally, I've taken a wait and see approach to this.

Gene
 
Why was the 14.1 tournament a flop? Not enough spectators? Not enough players? I know I read some complaints on here about the lighting and some leaking water but did those things cause the tournament to actually flop as far as attendance is concerned? I was actually under the impression that, in spite of the problems I just mentioned, there was some great play and the tournament seemed to generate a lot of interest among the spectators. Am I wrong here?
 
Everyone should keep in mind that the very first tournament of this new tour (IPT) is still 44 days away.

All that has happened so far and will happen until then is hype and promo.

It is pretty bad to condemn a Tour before it has even started.

Perhaps you should all wait and see what happens in July.

Then, if it is a flop and all the players are complaining about all the money that they made, then you can complain.

But, I suspect that a lot of the players will have a big smile on their face when they are heading to the bank after the tournament. (Or the BJ tables)

I overheard Archer, when he was in the finals in Orlando, telling his wife, we are going to buy a house. I wonder if he did.

Jake
 
rogelioii said:
WOW! I was just thinking about that poolhall... and I was like, "Nah! That can't be the pool rooom by my sister's house........" Well.... IT IS!!! I like that room.

Nice!
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Cool man!...so you've been there!.....

Gerry
 
mnorwood said:
... and the latest 14.1 tourny was a flop...
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Wrong. There was great play. A true champion won. Records were set. Many aspects were really memorable (although maybe not perfect). I look forward to the 2007 edition.
 
jjinfla said:
I overheard Archer, when he was in the finals in Orlando, telling his wife, we are going to buy a house. I wonder if he did.

Jake
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If this is true, it's pretty sad that a 37 year old married man can't buy him and his wife a house to live in until the IPT rolled into town.
 
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