IPT players, stand up for yourselve's

Hello Jay, I would have liked to competed in the Open this year however Berry son Brady still owes me a great deal of $ from the UPA Mid Atlantic 9 ball championships. My sponsor called Berry and tried to iron out the matter, he asked if he thought Brady could pay my entry. But Berry said he could not speak on his sons behalf and if I did come and there was trouble between Brady and I that he would have to send me on my way, I guess my point is there has allways been a severe lack of communication between the players and the org. The bottom line is the UPA won't do anything and neither will Brady so I realize how they must feel about me and there wrong I'm a pretty good ol' boy for the most part. It's not the $ so much like it is with the IPT but it's the fact that they don't care (Brady and the UPA.) Berry claims his son has nothing to do with the US Open, but his son is in charge of the website so that is a lie on Berry end. Do you have any ideas for me on how I could get paid and eventually feel ok about playing in the Open. Thanks, Danny Harriman
 
Danny Harriman said:
Hello Jay, I would have liked to competed in the Open this year however Berry son Brady still owes me a great deal of $ from the UPA Mid Atlantic 9 ball championships. My sponsor called Berry and tried to iron out the matter, he asked if he thought Brady could pay my entry. But Berry said he could not speak on his sons behalf and if I did come and there was trouble between Brady and I that he would have to send me on my way, I guess my point is there has allways been a severe lack of communication between the players and the org. The bottom line is the UPA won't do anything and neither will Brady so I realize how they must feel about me and there wrong I'm a pretty good ol' boy for the most part. It's not the $ so much like it is with the IPT but it's the fact that they don't care (Brady and the UPA.) Berry claims his son has nothing to do with the US Open, but his son is in charge of the website so that is a lie on Berry end. Do you have any ideas for me on how I could get paid and eventually feel ok about playing in the Open. Thanks, Danny Harriman


Danny, You have always been a straight guy in my book and a damn good player to boot. I will PM you.
 
Snapshot9 said:
My notes:
Even if they are considered contract labor (1099 form) and terminated, the IPT will have to pay by either 30 or 60 days (I don't remember which).

.


Oh God, now everybody has to wait 30 - 60 days.
 
People offering so much help to top level players.

I hope some of that generosity steers in the direction of the USPPA players that got stiffed at RENO.
 
First of all, I believe everybody WILL get paid. I have said all along that this pay issue is a non-issue.

Should the players unite?

For what? They have no leverage at this point. Kevin offers big money. The players show up. Kevin delivers on the pay day (we hope). The players have more money and KT can do no wrong because you don't bite the hand that feeds you.

You need to realize that players organizations have been done in the past and they have failed miserably. Organizing something now would be the same as calling a fire inspector after your building has burned down, all they could do is assess the damage and offer condolences.

Last year I said that the IPT players needed to have something in place that protects them. I offered to assist on a voluntary basis - free of charge - to advise and organize that initially. I was told to STFU, I was called a negative naysayer, a douchebag, enthusiatically negative, or whatever else some of them could dream up. That speaks volumes of the maturity level of the people involved in the massive IPT rah-rah movement. Not dealing with the existing problems within the game will eventually come back to haunt them. Money won't solve anything. It will only complicate matters. That is not being negative, that is a fact of life and they need to deal with that internally or pay the consequences.

The fact remains that there are holes in the ship. It didn't have to hit an iceberg to sink the ship, it would sink by design. Calling for a a mutiny while everybody should be trying to keep the ship from sinking will accomplish nothing but speeding up the inevitable. Is the IPT in trouble? I don't know. I don't think it is in danger of sinking right now, but I do believe that Kevin is sweating the fact that he isn't making a profit, which is why he is trying to unload it and get out of town (just like I said he would 1 year ago in a thread I started).

Any type of a player's organization would have to be separate from the IPT, and set up to represent the players arbitrarily. It has always been my recommendation that NO PLAYERS be involved within the working of this entity. That would eliminate any and all conflicts of interest. This type of organization would work with the IPT and the players to ensure that both sides are treated fairly.

The problem is many within the IPT see this as an intrusive, offensive proposition. It is not. In fact it would strengthen the relationship between the players and the IPT, and it would also give the players a sense of security in issues regarding fines, payouts, judgment calls, and it would lead the way to establishing exemptions for HOF members, tour champions, and other issues.

Will this ever happen? I hope so. The main problem seems to be that Kevin is not receptive to having anybody tell him how to run his business. In his case, if you don't have a portfolio that rivals his own, he wants nothing to do with you and he won't listen. With an attitude like that this venture will fall by the wayside like his Mega-Memory System. That's sad, because many people have put a lot of faith in this and have dedicated their lives to seeing this thing materialize into a profitmaking venture. I contend that if a player organization was in place, the pay issue from Reno would have been addressed immediately - privately and publicly - FOR the players. It would have relieved a lot of undue stress and worry from their lives.

Even the first year cadet at the poolroom learns that once someone knows they can stiff you out of money, the likelihood of you ever getting paid, is zip.
 
justnum...Why do you dredge up 5 year old threads? This has been a dead horse for years.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Don't you care about what happen to the USPPA, Danny Harriman and these stories of being unpaid?

I mean come on man. Not paying is an epidemic and those that haven't been pay should receive attention for it.
 
Don't you care about what happen to the USPPA, Danny Harriman and these stories of being unpaid?

I mean come on man. Not paying is an epidemic and those that haven't been pay should receive attention for it.

And what exactly does that have to do with dredging up a 5 year old thread about tourneys run by completely different people?

I mean other than you finding ways to spam the main forum. Besides that, what was the point?
 
Danny Harriman hasn't been as active in pool tournaments since his Behrman's failure to make payment.

The USPPA players haven't been involved in events since the disaster.

Pool players are not competing and not coming out. How can you not be concerned?

Unless your only thing is pumping $20 via the internet for pay per streams.

Danny Harriman played in the 2005 World 14.1 for a young contender to go from a placing to not showing in future events is a problem. I can only blame organizers. And the lack of interest from the community about business people that blame everything on things they can't control, that is their job, someone should tell them.
 
As soon as I saw this ancient thread bumped I thought, "Probably that justnum guy, who keeps bumping ancient threads". And sure enough, it was.

Seems to be your addiction.
 
Danny Harriman hasn't been as active in pool tournaments since his Behrman's failure to make payment.

The USPPA players haven't been involved in events since the disaster.

Pool players are not competing and not coming out. How can you not be concerned?

Unless your only thing is pumping $20 via the internet for pay per streams.

Danny Harriman played in the 2005 World 14.1 for a young contender to go from a placing to not showing in future events is a problem. I can only blame organizers. And the lack of interest from the community about business people that blame everything on things they can't control, that is their job, someone should tell them.


I tell you what.

I'll start to listen to you, when you can do a couple of things.

First, let everyone who comes here and reads these posts know exactly who you are. Don't hide behind a screen name. Tell us about you and why we should believe that you know what you're talking about. Without knowing who you are, you are bring no value or credibility.

Second, walk a mile in their shoes. What I mean is that before you come on a public forum and blame the promoters, or anyone else for that matter, have some first hand experience with the subject you're talking about. Go out and put on an event so you can fix everything that you feel would be so easy to fix. If you can't do that, then at least offer to help one of those who are doing something. I don't mean help by telling them what to do, but by offering to work for them. Doing what they think is needed.


I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but everyday I hear someone trying to tell those that are trying to do something about the sad state of pool, how to do it, when they haven't gone out there and tried it themselves.

I may not be as easy as you think!

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
First of all, I believe everybody WILL get paid. I have said all along that this pay issue is a non-issue.

Should the players unite?

For what? They have no leverage at this point. Kevin offers big money. The players show up. Kevin delivers on the pay day (we hope). The players have more money and KT can do no wrong because you don't bite the hand that feeds you.

You need to realize that players organizations have been done in the past and they have failed miserably. Organizing something now would be the same as calling a fire inspector after your building has burned down, all they could do is assess the damage and offer condolences.

Last year I said that the IPT players needed to have something in place that protects them. I offered to assist on a voluntary basis - free of charge - to advise and organize that initially. I was told to STFU, I was called a negative naysayer, a douchebag, enthusiatically negative, or whatever else some of them could dream up. That speaks volumes of the maturity level of the people involved in the massive IPT rah-rah movement. Not dealing with the existing problems within the game will eventually come back to haunt them. Money won't solve anything. It will only complicate matters. That is not being negative, that is a fact of life and they need to deal with that internally or pay the consequences.

The fact remains that there are holes in the ship. It didn't have to hit an iceberg to sink the ship, it would sink by design. Calling for a a mutiny while everybody should be trying to keep the ship from sinking will accomplish nothing but speeding up the inevitable. Is the IPT in trouble? I don't know. I don't think it is in danger of sinking right now, but I do believe that Kevin is sweating the fact that he isn't making a profit, which is why he is trying to unload it and get out of town (just like I said he would 1 year ago in a thread I started).

Any type of a player's organization would have to be separate from the IPT, and set up to represent the players arbitrarily. It has always been my recommendation that NO PLAYERS be involved within the working of this entity. That would eliminate any and all conflicts of interest. This type of organization would work with the IPT and the players to ensure that both sides are treated fairly.

The problem is many within the IPT see this as an intrusive, offensive proposition. It is not. In fact it would strengthen the relationship between the players and the IPT, and it would also give the players a sense of security in issues regarding fines, payouts, judgment calls, and it would lead the way to establishing exemptions for HOF members, tour champions, and other issues.

Will this ever happen? I hope so. The main problem seems to be that Kevin is not receptive to having anybody tell him how to run his business. In his case, if you don't have a portfolio that rivals his own, he wants nothing to do with you and he won't listen. With an attitude like that this venture will fall by the wayside like his Mega-Memory System. That's sad, because many people have put a lot of faith in this and have dedicated their lives to seeing this thing materialize into a profitmaking venture. I contend that if a player organization was in place, the pay issue from Reno would have been addressed immediately - privately and publicly - FOR the players. It would have relieved a lot of undue stress and worry from their lives.

There are many who should feel very badly for flaming you so badly and the way they did. You handled it well and I always thought you handled it so well because you knew how mu ch the people and the game wanted something good to happen so much.
Now that this is over and we all now know just what a POS Kt is, I only hope that next time people will not be afraid to ask some questions from the start. Those who are earnest and honest invite intelligent questions and are anxious to answer them. KT stood therein front of everyone, lied his ass of, and was having a great big time of it in true KT fashion.
he too thought was sold a bill of goods when convinced this country would really support all those monthly $1000 qualifiers. We all know who sold him on that.
I never flamed you or got involved in that, but I didn't break my neck to back you up either. For that, I apologize!

Lewis
 
I tell you what.

I'll start to listen to you, when you can do a couple of things.

First, let everyone who comes here and reads these posts know exactly who you are. Don't hide behind a screen name. Tell us about you and why we should believe that you know what you're talking about. Without knowing who you are, you are bring no value or credibility.

Second, walk a mile in their shoes. What I mean is that before you come on a public forum and blame the promoters, or anyone else for that matter, have some first hand experience with the subject you're talking about. Go out and put on an event so you can fix everything that you feel would be so easy to fix. If you can't do that, then at least offer to help one of those who are doing something. I don't mean help by telling them what to do, but by offering to work for them. Doing what they think is needed.


I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but everyday I hear someone trying to tell those that are trying to do something about the sad state of pool, how to do it, when they haven't gone out there and tried it themselves.

I may not be as easy as you think!

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com


That one little mile is and often straight up hill and very lonely too. Few even realize the crap you have to wade through to get to the top of just the first hill.
 
The problem with players are they put up money, entry fees and expenses. Why bother putting up entry fees and expenses if an organizer can't at least provide proof they have a certain amount of prize money to payout.

What is to stop a new promoter from coming saying they have prize money in adds and just saying, well that prize money would be paid out only if more people paid to watch the tournament. Nothing can stop them.

The only time I can excuse a promoter is when they say prizes are based on a certain sized field. Otherwise what a promoter does amounts to empty promises.

What happens with empty promises are players empty out their wallets or banks accounts while a promoter fills up his wallet or bank account, knowing that at the end of the event a prize winner will not get paid.
 
The problem with players are they put up money, entry fees and expenses. Why bother putting up entry fees and expenses if an organizer can't at least provide proof they have a certain amount of prize money to payout.

What is to stop a new promoter from coming saying they have prize money in adds and just saying, well that prize money would be paid out only if more people paid to watch the tournament. Nothing can stop them.

The only time I can excuse a promoter is when they say prizes are based on a certain sized field. Otherwise what a promoter does amounts to empty promises.

What happens with empty promises are players empty out their wallets or banks accounts while a promoter fills up his wallet or bank account, knowing that at the end of the event a prize winner will not get paid.

I have no clue where you are getting this information aside from a vivid imagination or chemical imbalance....

There have been rare instances where players got the shaft like the USPPA but to think that the promoter made off like a bandit is completely insane...

The rare instances where this has happened has been when a tournament has failed... The promoters that failed are no longer promoting.... If a tournament fails the promoter loses his ass as well....

It's kind of like investing... The promoter invests 10s of thousands and the players invest 1-2k in entries... In most instances the shortfalls are eaten by the promoter but when catastrophe happens there is nothing left for anyone after the venue, the table supplier, and hotel block are paid for....

I think you would be well advised to take the advice you have been given so far which is to contact a promoter and offer your time to help so you can have a clue as to how things actually work... So far you have completely ignored all comments from the industry people who have been there and done that for years while you sit anonymously behind a keyboard letting complete stupidity fall out of your mouth time after time.....
 
I know there are people that have disputes with my comments.

The point of this thread is to if we can build on what has happened. Instead of making the same old excuses when things go bad.

A disagreement with my ideas are not a flame. But a disagreement is more helpful if it added a new point of view, or a deeper insight about understanding what plagues the industry.

I know some of my analysis may require more thinking than you are used to, but what can wrong with talking about new ideas. It has been so obvious in the past with what goes wrong with the old ideas.

Old ideas like pro players not stepping up to ensure amateur leagues of high standards of integrity for tournament organization, protection for entry fees and insurance for prize payouts. Most notable of the pros who have taken action are Allen Hopkins with the SBE and Tony Robles with his amateur league and the ABP creating a standard format for professional events.

Situations which do happen like blizzards and other natural disasters which prevent a tournament from being profitable are interesting. Maybe the pros can sell some type of insurance to promoters.

The lack of new insight from posters of arrant is not helping to understand the situation. You can help by saying something that isn't common knowledge.
 
justnum

I would recommend you watch the 3 TAR podcasts.

http://theactionreport.com/podcasts.html

Mark Griffin talks openly and freely about promoting events including the truth about the finances.


Without the public following and being fans of the Pro Players, all pro events will struggle. The Pro events need an audience that will pay to watch or attend the events for them to be able to survive. They don't have that right now.

Personally, I have no sympathy for a promoter who does not pay, or put up the promised added money. But that is not very often, and usually corrects itself. The rest of the promoters are trying to make gold out of lead, and are surprisingly successful at it.

Pool needs FANS!

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
A disagreement with my ideas are not a flame. But a disagreement is more helpful if it added a new point of view, or a deeper insight about understanding what plagues the industry.

Fine, here is my point of view:

YOU ARE COMPLETELY CLUELESS.

THE IPT WAS BEATEN TO DEATH SEVERAL YEARS AGO, STOP BUMPING THREADS THAT ARE OLD AND IRRELEVANT NOW.

Many things plague the industry. You plague this forum with your ramblings that make no sense, don't stay on topic, and read like you have copied and pasted a bunch of random words form various internet sites.
 
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