Is Efren playing for the whole 500K?

Celtic

Celtic

AZB's own 8-ball jihadist
Silver Member
One thing I am wondering is if Efren and some of the other top Filippino players perhaps made some pre-tournament deals, savers. You get Busta, Efren, Pagulayan, Orcollo, and perhaps a few other top Fillipino players together in a deal to pool their winnings and then split them and you are a pretty strong favorite to get someone in the pretty high money.

It would give Efren a pretty strong cheering section and some added focus and reason to shoot the lights out when that added 350 large is going to add alot to the split.
 
BallBuster said:
get a life ok...
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It is a legitimate question. Perhaps you should relax and if you dont like a thread then simply avoid it.
 
I am certainly among those that believe that pros don't give as big an effort when less money is on the line, but ............does it really matter?

Also, there's more to it than just savers. What if one of the players made a $150,000 bet with bookmsker Stan James on their opponent at even odds? As second place pays $150,000, that player would end up with a profit of $300,000 plus win or lose.

Savers and side bets are just types of insurance. In every other aspect of society, most feel that those who insure themselves against risks they cannnot afford to take are acting responsibly (no, I'm not in the insurance business).

I'm willing to cut the players some slack here because most of them are not financially secure enough to bear this much risk.

If Efren is playing for the whole 500K, great, but if not, I'm OK with that, too.
 
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Celtic said:
One thing I am wondering is if Efren and some of the other top Filippino players perhaps made some pre-tournament deals, savers. You get Busta, Efren, Pagulayan, Orcollo, and perhaps a few other top Fillipino players together in a deal to pool their winnings and then split them and you are a pretty strong favorite to get someone in the pretty high money.
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Firstly, this post makes absolutely no sense. What would be their motive? There are about 10 Filipinos who can single-handedly win this tournament by themselves, with no such "help" from their countrymen. Busta, Orcullo, Manalo, Alcano, Lining, Gallego, Kiamco, Pagulayan...take your pick. So why would any of them want to share their hard earned prize money if they know they can go all the way on their own?

Secondly, what evidence do you have that the any of the Filipinos helped each other in the tournament? Like I mentioned in another thread, none of them played each other late within a given round, so they didn't have any opportunity to execute any such deals.

If anything, no...Efren is NOT playing for the whole 500k. There are about 100 or so "relatives" in the Philippines that he has to support, and I'm sure NONE of them are IPT pool players.

Your thread is just as ridiculous as asking if Morris is playing for the entire 500k. Why exactly would you choose to only focus on Efren and not Morris? Maybe i'm just misunderstanding your post.
 
Alex Lely, Niels Feijen, Rico Diks and Nick van den Berg are good players from Holland. Do you think they have got a deal?

What about the strong Germans? Or the large field of UK players? Or what about all the Americans?

I doubt there is any deal among players, and that both of them is playing for it all
 
Although it's a lingering question that Efren dumped games for bigger side bet because of his many 2nd place finishes early in his career, I don't think that fixing is possible now. That's only possible when you have a field of players that you know you can easily dominate and can dictate how things go.

According to Bustamante, they hardly put their own money even on pick-up games. The Filipino contingents are mostly sponsored players. Most of their expenses are covered when they go outside the Philippines.
 
Savers will not promote pool in the long run

Without doubt saver's and dumping are not conducive to trying to bring pool up to the level of golf, tennis or even bowling. I would hope the pro's would carry themselves in the same manner as the golfers.

If players dump and bet on the other side and get away with it how long do you think you will be able to bet on pool in Vegas.

Someday I would like to see pool mentioned on ESPN sports center announcing results of a tournament and would rather not see it announced that players collude and split prize money in the largest ever pool tournament.

In the past many players have had a very short term timeframe in mind when they have made decisions and the following actions have severly limited pool. If this oppurtunity is to be made the most of then there will not be savers and the matches will be played hard.
 
elvicash said:
If players dump and bet on the other side and get away with it how long do you think you will be able to bet on pool in Vegas.
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Hah hah hah! Any time the odds are long on any particular matchup, you'd be a retard to bet on ANY prohibitive favorite.

Not to say it's a bad thing, but the only way I bet on a pool player under ANY circumstances is if they are a longtime personal friend, and they TELL me they are trying to win.

After credible sources have told me about certain high profile players dumping matches because the moeny was right, I am willing to believe almost any pro would dump if the money was right.

It all comes down to this. Pool IS NOT golf. The money is there to a certain extent, in this one tour, the IPT. I for one, do not believe it will last more than a year or two, in it's current form.

The players are gonna get what they can get, while they can get it.

Russ
 
Saver? Most likely.
Pooling money or dumping, no fk'n way.
There is way too much money to be lost if they are caught.
I don't think they want to make another Mike Lebron incident.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Saver? Most likely.
Pooling money or dumping, no fk'n way.
There is way too much money to be lost if they are caught.
I don't think they want to make another Mike Lebron incident.
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Good point!
It's funny, this went from a deal, to a saver, to dumping. There is more damage done to pool here, than in Reno.
 
ironman said:
Good point!
It's funny, this went from a deal, to a saver, to dumping. There is more damage done to pool here, than in Reno.
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That is true. The initial post that I made was about a "pre-tournament" deal where players with an equal chance to win this thing would agree to split their winnings. I dont see anything at all wrong with it, it does not change the way they play, they are still going to play as good as they can.

I myself in most tournaments I have played in split with my best friend who is pretty close to equal in skill. By doing so both of us almost always make money since for both of us to miss the cash is rare. If we both make it to the cash great, we split it, and if only one makes it that day then the person who did not make the cash does not take a loss.

I dont see why certain people got so offended by this thread, it was a honest question, it was not judging the players in any fashion, it was mearly a curiosity since it is so common in pool for friends of equal skill level to have pre-tournament deals in place like this.

It matters because it is nice to know the mindset of the player when watching them in the final. If Efren is shooting I want to know if he has the added pressure of playing not only for himself but for those in the stands that may be hoping for him for more reasons then his being a good friend. It becomes like the pressure of playing on a team in the final game for the trip to Vegas, you are not playing for yourself alone.
 
If the winner even gets half the $500k he'll be doing Great! Uncle Sam gets 1st shot @ the Cash and it falls into the 50%+ tax bracket. That place in Reno prob looked like an IRS convention this week as much as a pool tourney :(
 
Ruthless said:
If the winner even gets half the $500k he'll be doing Great! Uncle Sam gets 1st shot @ the Cash and it falls into the 50%+ tax bracket. That place in Reno prob looked like an IRS convention this week as much as a pool tourney :(
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There isn't a 50%+ bracket. Taking the 2005 tables, assuming the rates for non-resident foreign nationals are the same as for citizens, and assuming there are no deductions, then the worst case is "married filing separately" and total tax would be $162031 ($44160 + 35% of the amount over $163225), which is a rate of 32.4%+. And I'm pretty sure Nevada doesn't have a state income tax.

-- jwp
 
Celtic said:
One thing I am wondering is if Efren and some of the other top Filippino players perhaps made some pre-tournament deals, savers. You get Busta, Efren, Pagulayan, Orcollo, and perhaps a few other top Fillipino players together in a deal to pool their winnings and then split them and you are a pretty strong favorite to get someone in the pretty high money.

It would give Efren a pretty strong cheering section and some added focus and reason to shoot the lights out when that added 350 large is going to add alot to the split.
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This kind of comment is CELTIC's pathological reaction whenever Efren wins a big tournament. Read his posts about Efren. He not only rejoices at Efren's losses but also mocks him for his victories.
 
He play's for the whole prize everytime... but, with a percentage going to his manager, a percentage going to his Sponsor, a percentage mixed in for "balato" (rough translation: sharing your winnings with family and friends), and the rest going to his wife... Efren probably won't have much left in his pocket. :p
 
Celtic said:
One thing I am wondering is if Efren and some of the other top Filippino players perhaps made some pre-tournament deals, savers. You get Busta, Efren, Pagulayan, Orcollo, and perhaps a few other top Fillipino players together in a deal to pool their winnings and then split them and you are a pretty strong favorite to get someone in the pretty high money.

It would give Efren a pretty strong cheering section and some added focus and reason to shoot the lights out when that added 350 large is going to add alot to the split.
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I think this a silly post and thread. At the 500K level Why would there be any more pressure playing for money to be split than money to go into your own pocket?

Based on Efren's comments, I think he feels the pressure of playing for the entire Philippine nation every time he picks up a cue in competition.

Echoing the other responders comments above, why are you asking this about the Philippine players and not those from other countries?

The same thing you are suggesting could have been done among the Germans, Brits, Americans, Danes or anybody else. In fact, it wouldn't have to be a group fom a country.

Perhaps all 150 IPT Pros agreed to split the prize money and they they just played for fun.

Holy Cow! We could have a multi national, global, prize splitting conspiracy here. Somebody call Mike Wallace!

More dumb speculation based on no facts. The next thread of this caliper will be about performance enchancing drugs.
 
elvicash said:
Without doubt saver's and dumping are not conducive to trying to bring pool up to the level of golf, tennis or even bowling. I would hope the pro's would carry themselves in the same manner as the golfers.

If players dump and bet on the other side and get away with it how long do you think you will be able to bet on pool in Vegas.

Someday I would like to see pool mentioned on ESPN sports center announcing results of a tournament and would rather not see it announced that players collude and split prize money in the largest ever pool tournament.

In the past many players have had a very short term timeframe in mind when they have made decisions and the following actions have severly limited pool. If this oppurtunity is to be made the most of then there will not be savers and the matches will be played hard.
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There is a BIG difference in savers, and dumping. If people don't know the difference, I doubt they would know what is going on.
 
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