Is "Feel" Essential for Successful Aiming?

[Patrick Johnson]

I've always maintained that there are too many different cut angles* needed in pool for any usable aiming system to possibly "define" all of them so precisely that any shot can be made by following the system's instructions to the letter, without the need to recognize the final aim solution through "practiced estimation" ("feel").

That doesn't mean that aiming systems don't "work" - just that they only define "landmarks" to get you close, and you have to do the final fine tuning by "recognizing it when you see it".

What do you think?

pj
chgo

*Here's a drawing illustrating what I mean by "too many different cut angles" - it shows that, for a spot shot into a 4 1/2" corner pocket (with 2 1/4 inches of "pocket slop"), a minimum of 25 unique cut angle solutions per cut direction (left or right) are needed in order to be able to make the shot from any CB position. With the OB closer to the pocket fewer cut angles are needed, and with it farther away more are needed (up to 50 or more for long shots).

P.S. To avoid conflict, I hope we can keep this theoretical and not try to compare specific systems.

 

[JoeyInCali]

You have to visualize the two balls in collision in the end.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

You have to visualize the two balls in collision in the end.

Do you mean visualize the "ghost" cue ball or something else?

pj
chgo

 

[JoeyInCali]

Do you mean visualize the "ghost cue ball?

pj
chgo

No. The balls making contact.

 

[Zerksies]

The main point in any aiming system is how the persons process the information. Everyone processes information differently. I can’t use the ghost ball method for shit. I know others that can use it well.

I’m using a variation of a ferrule edge method. Now the “feel” of the shot for me comes when I try to use English on the ball. Even still when I double check my work I still sometimes have to adjust my shot.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I’m using a variation of a ferrule edge method. Now the “feel” of the shot for me comes when I try to use English on the ball.

Do you think the ferrule edge method fully defines all no-English shots for you, without feel? So, for instance when you're aiming a spot shot, is the ferrule edge method capable of objectively defining 25 distinct cut angles with no "guesswork"?

pj
chgo

 

[David in FL]

I've always maintained that there are too many different cut angles* needed in pool for any usable aiming system to possibly "define" all of them so precisely that any shot can be made by following the system's instructions to the letter, without the need to recognize the final aim solution through "practiced estimation" ("feel").

That doesn't mean that aiming systems don't "work" - just that they only define "landmarks" to get you close, and you have to do the final fine tuning by "recognizing it when you see it".

What do you think?

pj
chgo

*Here's a drawing illustrating what I mean by "too many different cut angles" - it shows that, for a spot shot into a 4 1/2" corner pocket (with 2 1/4 inches of "pocket slop"), a minimum of 25 unique cut angle solutions per cut direction (left or right) are needed in order to be able to make the shot from any CB position. With the OB closer to the pocket fewer cut angles are needed, and with it farther away more are needed (up to 50 or more for long shots).

P.S. To avoid conflict, I hope we can keep this theoretical and not try to compare specific systems.

View attachment 666197

I could not agree more!

My “aiming system” is to grab the stick and hit the ball.

The HAM system… Hit A Million balls system.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

My “aiming system” is to grab the stick and hit the ball.

The HAM system… Hit A Million balls system.

The "feel" part of any system also relies on practice, practice, practice to learn the fine tuning needed to get from a "system alignment" to the final aim line. Hopefully the system reduces the number of balls that must be hit to only hundreds of thousands.

pj
chgo

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Maybe this “Feel” thing is gained thought experience, and doing same thing many times.

Like when you get in your car and drive to same job, at same location, many many times.

At some point you recall leaving house, and arriving at work. But do not recall trip. Because it has become so routine, mussel memory took over.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Maybe this “Feel” thing is gained thought experience, and doing same thing many times.

Yes, it is. HAMB (hit a million balls) is about developing feel.

With a good system you might need to hit only hundreds of thousands of balls.

pj
chgo

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Yes, it is. HAMB (hit a million balls) is about developing feel. With a good system you might need to hit only hundreds of thousands of balls.

pj
chgo

This task you suggest involves something people hate work, aka practice.


People who have become great at most thing pool, cooking, customizing car, driving Indy cars, being a jockey.

Most have one common denimstor Hard Work at Profession, Hibby, or Vocation.

 

[Dan White]

I've always maintained that there are too many different cut angles* needed in pool for any usable aiming system to possibly "define" all of them so precisely that any shot can be made by following the system's instructions to the letter, without the need to recognize the final aim solution through "practiced estimation" ("feel").

That doesn't mean that aiming systems don't "work" - just that they only define "landmarks" to get you close, and you have to do the final fine tuning by "recognizing it when you see it".

What do you think?

pj
chgo

*Here's a drawing illustrating what I mean by "too many different cut angles" - it shows that, for a spot shot into a 4 1/2" corner pocket (with 2 1/4 inches of "pocket slop"), a minimum of 25 unique cut angle solutions per cut direction (left or right) are needed in order to be able to make the shot from any CB position. With the OB closer to the pocket fewer cut angles are needed, and with it farther away more are needed (up to 50 or more for long shots).

P.S. To avoid conflict, I hope we can keep this theoretical and not try to compare specific systems.

View attachment 666197

I must admit I'm having trouble understanding what this diagram is showing.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I must admit I'm having trouble understanding what this diagram is showing.

It probably could use some ‘splainin’…

The red lines radiating from the spot to the OBs wedged in the 4.5” pockets show how much angular “slop” there is when shooting into each pocket from the spot - 3.6 degrees when shooting into the lower left corner.

3.6 degrees = a 1/16” “contact patch” on the OB’s equator - the expanded OB shows how big that is on the actual ball’s surface, and that 25 of them are contained within each 90-degree 1/4 ball section (the part hit with the CB for a left or right cut) - hence 25 needed aiming solutions for a spot shot into a 4 1/2” corner pocket from all CB positions.

For comparison, a shot from the spot into the upper right corner needs 49 discreet aiming solutions.

pj
chgo

 

[boogieman]

The way you describe feel is almost as an estimation of aim (does it look right?). I think of feel as literal feel, as in feeling, sense of touch etc. If I "feel" a shot it's separate from "seeing" a shot (aka aiming). I also listen for the sound of a well hit shot (I don't imagine/visualize the sound though).

Practice strokes allow you to verify your stroke is true and feel the cue is on line with what you are seeing (aim).

Not trying to be obtuse, but I don't equate feel to estimation, it's actually stroking the ball good. Kind of like visualization. Visualization is to your eyes as feel is to your body.

If you decide to take up karate and bust a board with your hand, you feel your hand punching through/beyond the board before you do it. If you feel your hand stop at the board, it's kind of like not following through or doing a punch type stroke.

I can "feel" what the balls will do on a certain type of collision. Thin cuts, thick cuts, inside and outside english, follow, draw, speed of shot, cleanliness of balls, fast vs slow cloth, lively cushions, when the english will wear off for a floater type shot... without ever touching the CB or OB with my body I can get a feel for how they react, like spinning marbles or a bottle cap.

Feel is to your body as aiming is to your eyes. Of course it's all interconnected in between your ears so there is probably a lot of overlap between seeing and doing, where does one stop and the other begin?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The way you describe feel is almost as an estimation of aim (does it look right?).

That (assisted by whatever system is used) is exactly what it means in aiming pool shots.

I think of feel as literal feel, as in feeling, sense of touch etc.

So, unrelated to aiming?

pj
chgo

 

[Bob Jewett]

The way you describe feel is almost as an estimation of aim (does it look right?). I think of feel as literal feel, as in feeling, sense of touch etc....

I don't think of "feel" the way you do. When I say a shot "feels" right, I mean it in the sense of the shot seems right, or I remember how this sort of shot looked before and the current shot looks similar to a previous good shot.

I think that for most people the expression, "This just doesn't feel right," doesn't mean literal sensory feeling.

 

[boogieman]

So, unrelated to aiming?

For me, yes. It has to look right and it has to feel right for the shot to be right. YMMV, we all do stuff a bit differently.

For example, if you've ever aimed a shot correctly but stroked it wrong and missed. It wasn't aim that was off, it was your stroke. You didn't feel the shot correctly (or did but stroked it wrong). Sometimes you know if you had hit a shot harder it would have went, or you know you missed a shot because the speed combined with spin threw a shot off differently than you intended. You either didn't feel the shot correctly, or executed it poorly.

The same can be said when you stroke the CB really good but miss the pocket by a little bit. In this case you probably had the right feel but your aim was off. It could also be a case of poor execution or imagining (visualization or feel) it incorrectly.

It's kind of hard to discuss because all of it is intimately intertwined, any variable can be off a little and cause a miss. Did faulty aim (visualizing), faulty stroke (feel), or a breakdown in execution cause the miss?

I don't think of "feel" the way you do. When I say a shot "feels" right, I mean it in the sense of the shot seems right, or I remember how this sort of shot looked before and the current shot looks similar to a previous good shot.

I think that for most people the expression, "This just doesn't feel right," doesn't mean literal sensory feeling.

It might just be an odd way I think about it.

 

[goettlicher]

I've always maintained that there are too many different cut angles* needed in pool for any usable aiming system to possibly "define" all of them so precisely that any shot can be made by following the system's instructions to the letter, without the need to recognize the final aim solution through "practiced estimation" ("feel").

That doesn't mean that aiming systems don't "work" - just that they only define "landmarks" to get you close, and you have to do the final fine tuning by "recognizing it when you see it".

What do you think?

pj
chgo

*Here's a drawing illustrating what I mean by "too many different cut angles" - it shows that, for a spot shot into a 4 1/2" corner pocket (with 2 1/4 inches of "pocket slop"), a minimum of 25 unique cut angle solutions per cut direction (left or right) are needed in order to be able to make the shot from any CB position. With the OB closer to the pocket fewer cut angles are needed, and with it farther away more are needed (up to 50 or more for long shots).

P.S. To avoid conflict, I hope we can keep this theoretical and not try to compare specific systems.

View attachment 666197

Hi Patrick.
I think that for myself, feel is recall. Seen it, done it, let's do it!
randyg

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Hi Patrick.
I think that for myself, feel is recall. Seen it, done it, let's do it!
randyg

Hey Pops...

Yup - I "know it when I see it" because I've seen it work many times before.

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The next question on my so-called mind is whether feel works best when you're aware* of it or when you're not**. My guess is it doesn't matter, but I wonder whether being unaware of it is actually best.

pj
chgo

* Either consciously aware of it while aiming or just know it happens.
** Either simply unaware while aiming or unconvinced that feel is necessary.