I say keep your#.
I only know one guy who still likes pool, after owning a pool room.
I only know one guy who still likes pool, after owning a pool room.
Is it a Bad Idea to Open a Room?
- Thread starter WhatRobEats
- Start date
I want to be you in 30 years. Sometimes you have to bet it all though right? You did. I feel like I have a good support system. I have a cousin that managed a very similar operation for over 10 years that's willing to work and manage my establishment. I have a wife with an MBA that is willing to tackle the business side of things. I have a BA in Communications to handle the promotional side of things.
This is certainly not something that I'm jumping into. If that were the case I would have done it when the thought first crossed my mind 2 years ago. There is a great deal of planning going on with this venture. Would I like a bank to back me? Sure. I'd much rather that then putting my savings on the line but maybe that doesn't happen. Gotta always have a plan b. Even if that plan b is not seeing this dream of mine coming to fruition.
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They were discussing locations in another thread, and my feeling is... location is huge.
It seems like large metro areas are best. You'd think being the only game in town would guarantee crowds and income... but you have to ask, "why am I the first/only guy to open a pool hall here?" ...the answer may be "because there's few customers here, and other people have already figured that out."
I would almost rather open a pool hall that's with 5 miles of 5 other rooms... than open the only pool hall for 20 miles in any direction.
If you can take this gamble and it won't completely ruin your life financially, or cause you to tear your hair out... if you are positive you can bounce back if it fails... then I say, go ahead and risk your money on something you can love and be proud of.
It seems like large metro areas are best. You'd think being the only game in town would guarantee crowds and income... but you have to ask, "why am I the first/only guy to open a pool hall here?" ...the answer may be "because there's few customers here, and other people have already figured that out."
I would almost rather open a pool hall that's with 5 miles of 5 other rooms... than open the only pool hall for 20 miles in any direction.
If you can take this gamble and it won't completely ruin your life financially, or cause you to tear your hair out... if you are positive you can bounce back if it fails... then I say, go ahead and risk your money on something you can love and be proud of.
Already have one plus going. I already shave my head because I'm 33 and balding already.
Thanks for the encouraging post CreeDo. Believe me when I say those are already questions I'm asking and trying to get answers about.
There is never really a bad time to start a business as long as the numbers work. In fact right now, and this may change soon, you can pick up commercial property for like nothing. You can buy a building and open a room, no need to rent. I have owned three room and to me it is just a bottom line formula business as long as you know what you are doing. As far as 70% of new business going under in the first three years, and the number may even be higher. 90% of the 70 % were destine to close the day they opened due to an unrealistic or poorly put together business plan.
I say this from experience of owning a small strip center some years ago. I would have people rent space and they would be working like crazy getting everything together, have big ideas and plans and be out of business in a year. In almost every instance I could have told them they would fail from day one. They all seem to make the same mistakes and often invent a few new ones. The main mistake is usually underestimating what the cost to run the business and overestimating the revenue it can really produce. They play with numbers on paper and basically lie to themselves. My one piece of advice would be to not be afraid to ask for advice and help. Don't just look for people who will tell you what you want to hear. get real advice.
Before you ask why I have had three rooms and don't have any now. I get board and tend to move on to other things after a number of years. I will probably have another room at some time before I die. I like the business but it can be very time consuming. It is not really an absentee owner type of business, you have to be hands on all the time and will it burn you out after a few years. At least it has done that to me.
Where do you suggest that I get real advice from? I've been doing 'opposition research' at the two pool rooms in my Metro Area. But I have no idea the operating costs of them.
I suppose my wife can help me out with that part of it with her MBA. But we might fall into that trap you described of seeing numbers we want to see and ignoring those we don't.
I plan to have 3 to 5 employees. Including myself and my kids to help out with odd job stuff. My cousin would manage the place, he has 10 years experience managing a similar operation. So 35k ish a year for him.
I would want to take a salary of around 40k to maintain my current lifestyle. Then get a few hourly employees at 10 bucks an hour.
My wife would still keep her well paying job and do the business/accounting end of things on a part time type basis.
I know there is electricity as an operating cost. Maintaining food service and permits involved with that as operating cost. Table maintenance, buying and maintaining balls for the driving range, buying maintaining the ball grabber vehicle thing-a-magig.
What am I missing?
Cool man, I wish you the best of luck. You will probably get a lot of opinions on here (good and bad) about this topic so, be cautious on assuming all info on here is good
. GL
Have a rock solid method to guard against employee theft (employees stealing from you). I like the show "Bar Rescue", John Taffer really exposes the downside to employees who "steals" from the owners.
Back when I was playing pool significantly, the employees were giving me and my friends free table time and beer. I realize now (I was a broke college student at the time) it was wrong.
Good luck. I actually think combining pool with golf is a great idea as long as golf is the focus. But, you must proceed with caution, I heard golf is also suffering....
ghost ball <- not a golfer
Back when I was playing pool significantly, the employees were giving me and my friends free table time and beer. I realize now (I was a broke college student at the time) it was wrong.
Good luck. I actually think combining pool with golf is a great idea as long as golf is the focus. But, you must proceed with caution, I heard golf is also suffering....
ghost ball <- not a golfer
So you want to have leagues in your place but no bar. And you don't want the 'hassle'. To be blunt, you need to scrap your entire idea right now.
Top Golf Houston - Take the Tour Photos
http://topgolf.com/houston/pics-and-vids/take-a-tour/
Top Golf beat you to it. Really just kidding but they have a few pool tables there.
This is a multi-million dollar development. My guess would be north of $20M
Pretty neat though
http://topgolf.com/houston/pics-and-vids/take-a-tour/
Top Golf beat you to it. Really just kidding but they have a few pool tables there.
This is a multi-million dollar development. My guess would be north of $20M
Pretty neat though
i own a jewelry store
there is an old furniture store for sale in my small town in mid missouri large enough for a pool hall. i did a bit of research on a place. 200k for the building, 75k for tables, balls, sticks, etc etc, another 25k for miscelaneous. the building has a small office and 2 larger rooms, i was thinking about bar boxes, video games, music for the younger crowd and 1 billiard, 1 snooker and 9 footers in the other room for old guys like myself. soda on one side and beer on the other. pizza, chilie and snacks, just enough food to keep one girl busy.
then i did the math, after the money invested, heat and air for a building that size, then the hrs you would have to be there, the amount of money you can charge per hour.
i decided it was not for me. i would love to see an old style room in my area, but i just think with the way things are going today, it would be a very hard road to take.
there is an old furniture store for sale in my small town in mid missouri large enough for a pool hall. i did a bit of research on a place. 200k for the building, 75k for tables, balls, sticks, etc etc, another 25k for miscelaneous. the building has a small office and 2 larger rooms, i was thinking about bar boxes, video games, music for the younger crowd and 1 billiard, 1 snooker and 9 footers in the other room for old guys like myself. soda on one side and beer on the other. pizza, chilie and snacks, just enough food to keep one girl busy.
then i did the math, after the money invested, heat and air for a building that size, then the hrs you would have to be there, the amount of money you can charge per hour.
i decided it was not for me. i would love to see an old style room in my area, but i just think with the way things are going today, it would be a very hard road to take.
In my experience a stand alone pool hall has very little to no chance of surviving in this day and age. they are a thing of a bygone era unfortunately. i doubt adding a driving range will provide enough support to keep it afloat either. the combination that i have seen not only survive, but thrive even, is a combination pool hall/liquor establishment. without serving alcoholic beverages you will not bring in enough of the young crowd to make a go of it. unfortunately this is just a fact of the times we live in. my last suggestion to you is to avoid food prep of all types. it just doesnt bring in enough $ to make it worth the hassle, overhead and startup expenses. besides, your busiest time will be after 10pm when the 20 somethings get out of work in the retail/service industries and will have already eaten. hope this helps you out.
Yep, I watch that show from time to time also. There is also a restaurant version of it. Somebody poses as a new employee and another as a customer they almost always uncover some pretty awful stuff. On my 'rough draft' I already have putting up security camera's I can get them for pretty cheap from Costco, but I'm sure there are other opportunities out there also.
Golf is pretty huge out here where I'm at. There are 3 very nice courses that are always packed in season. It's the off season that worries me. I know I can't keep the light on with table time alone.
I respect your opinion. If it comes down to it and in my business plan I need to have a bar to stay afloat I'll go that route. Getting a liquor license is a pain in the ass, then paying for it year by year is another added 3k cost. If I sell soda and beer that cost is dropped to around 300 bucks a year. That was the 'hassle' part I was talking about.
squashington
New member
My family has owned a pool hall for 15+ years and the last 18 months have been our strongest yet. I'm not too involved in D2D operations but I can share some insight into what's worked for us.
Free pool on weekdays has been huge. We're probably averaging 10x the # of customers through the door than before. Free pool requires a purchase every hour, which is difficult to enforce but encouraged. We also lowered the price on bottled beer to $2.50 (soda is the same) and well drinks to $3. Basically, volume, volume, volume. Getting people in the door is the hardest part but once they have incentive they'll spend money on drinks, food, and other games. People even come down to play poker and watch sporting events.
That's what has worked in our market. Granted we only had 1 competitor but he closed up shop recently. Instead of opening a pool hall, concentrate on running a bar that has tons of pool tables.
Free pool on weekdays has been huge. We're probably averaging 10x the # of customers through the door than before. Free pool requires a purchase every hour, which is difficult to enforce but encouraged. We also lowered the price on bottled beer to $2.50 (soda is the same) and well drinks to $3. Basically, volume, volume, volume. Getting people in the door is the hardest part but once they have incentive they'll spend money on drinks, food, and other games. People even come down to play poker and watch sporting events.
That's what has worked in our market. Granted we only had 1 competitor but he closed up shop recently. Instead of opening a pool hall, concentrate on running a bar that has tons of pool tables.
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no way
I rarely involve myself in these issues,however, I do not want to see you loose your money. It is too hard to earn. I suggest you forget it. Do business because it makes financial sense, not because of your personal interests. Pool is on the decline, but so is golf, (unless you are in China or Japan). With pool, you have to make money somewhere other than table time as you will not make it there. Driving ranges are not big money makers in the USA. Add up your investment, determine your cash flow, and ROI and you will find out it is not there.
I am sorry to post negative because I too dream of having an upscale room, full bar, food, darts, pro shop, even live entertainment... then I sober up. I would be better off going to Vegas and putting it on the green double zero
There is a reason places like I want, and you describe are not there.
my best regards and wishes,
I rarely involve myself in these issues,however, I do not want to see you loose your money. It is too hard to earn. I suggest you forget it. Do business because it makes financial sense, not because of your personal interests. Pool is on the decline, but so is golf, (unless you are in China or Japan). With pool, you have to make money somewhere other than table time as you will not make it there. Driving ranges are not big money makers in the USA. Add up your investment, determine your cash flow, and ROI and you will find out it is not there.
I am sorry to post negative because I too dream of having an upscale room, full bar, food, darts, pro shop, even live entertainment... then I sober up. I would be better off going to Vegas and putting it on the green double zero
There is a reason places like I want, and you describe are not there.
my best regards and wishes,
A-freaking-men!!! I ran a 24 hour operation in Columbus for 6-1/2 years, 24 tables, 20+ employees, over a million $ in sales.... No full bar means you may as well just set your money on fire..... Beer and liquor sales generated 70% of the money. Pool time, driving range, and short order food alone won't come close to paying the nut......
Thanks squashington. First off I see that this is your first post I'm honored to have it in my thread. Welcome to AZ.
Good feedback. I can see what the general consensus is here and it's something that I will have to work in my business plan.
^^Phil,
Thanks for your post. I also appreciate your feedback as well. I haven't gotten far outside of the initial thinking and planning phase. Until my wife and I sit down to start drafting a formal business plan I'm not going to give up on my dream to do this. It's a very good possibility that after my wife and I sit down and formulate a comprehensive business plan I'll see that I'm better off putting all my money on 00
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And furthermore, starting a business simply for the love of the game, promoting the game, etc.... is the whole wrong mindset.... Start a business if you have a super solid game plan that is nearly certain to make money and mostly because you have a love of making money.
gimmicks work (for a while)
Try to develop something that is new or different.
I went to play the other afternoon with an AZ friend. We had the place mostly to ourselves until dark. The waitress began removing the standard lightbulbs from the fixture and installing black lights. Took off the regular balls and threw down the glow set. Installed some reflector strips under the rails and vioila, these Gold Crowns were ready for the finest entertainment experience pocket billiards has to offer.
Yikes, but the place filled up fast and the beer was flowing.
Try to develop something that is new or different.
I went to play the other afternoon with an AZ friend. We had the place mostly to ourselves until dark. The waitress began removing the standard lightbulbs from the fixture and installing black lights. Took off the regular balls and threw down the glow set. Installed some reflector strips under the rails and vioila, these Gold Crowns were ready for the finest entertainment experience pocket billiards has to offer.
Yikes, but the place filled up fast and the beer was flowing.
I see the connection between pool rooms and bars, but only if the bars serve alcohol.
I don’t see the connection between pool rooms and driving ranges, or between driving ranges and bars.
I would suggest you start small, figure out where the money is coming from, and adjust from there.
If you think a liquor license is too expensive, that’s a problem if you’re opening a pool room. As others have mentioned, pool rooms make much more money on booze than they do on table time.
Starting a business is really hard. It sounds like you’re trying to start three different businesses at the same time, which would make it exponentially harder.
I don’t see the connection between pool rooms and driving ranges, or between driving ranges and bars.
I would suggest you start small, figure out where the money is coming from, and adjust from there.
If you think a liquor license is too expensive, that’s a problem if you’re opening a pool room. As others have mentioned, pool rooms make much more money on booze than they do on table time.
Starting a business is really hard. It sounds like you’re trying to start three different businesses at the same time, which would make it exponentially harder.