Is it a Bad Idea to Open a Room?

WhatRobEats said:
The Room Owner discussion forum gets no action, ever. So I figured here would be a better place to ask. I've found some good investors and have a pretty large sum of 'investment' money myself. For the sake of the numbers lets say around 750k.

What I'm looking to do is lease/purchase a plot of land that I can convert into a driving range, and put up a building to serve as a pool room. I'd like to have 10 bar boxes, 5 9 footers, and 5 8 footers. I'd really like to do only soda's and beer and maybe have a small kitchen for bar food type stuff (but I am a great cook) so that might change depending on business needs.

There are 2 pool rooms in my metropolitan area. One draws a pretty decent crowd and would be about 30 minutes South of my proposed location. The other is on the opposite side of town and is near empty every time I go there. (I've been doing a lot of opposition research) So I go to these 2 places often.

Am I setting myself up for failure and risking losing everything by doing this? I know pool isn't in the best shape these days. All of us enthusiast still play and want to have nice places to do so but not so much with the general public. Do I have a better opportunity for success by including the driving range?

Sorry to ramble on like this I've been thinking of opening a room for about 2 years now just haven't had the balls to pull the trigger, yet.

ps. If mods want to move this over to Room discussion go ahead. Just thought I would get more attention over here.
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depends on the rent and the cost to open the doors,

your success haqs ZERO to do with the other rooms in the area, what they do is not related to you at all. Unlessthey have a waiting list for tables 7 nights a week, otherwise there are more tables than players. If there are more players than tables forget about whats going on down the street(you have no chance no matter what). This is a common mistake made by people who aint been in biz before-they see someone else doing good and think its a rite of passage to do well in the same biz down the raod a bit. aint knocking you jiust sticking to the text book facts of biz.

I have seen rooms with waiting lists damn near every night(god that was a long time ago)

if thats the case then you have a shot because there are too few tables for the number of players.

If that condition exists your still not a lock to succeed, because those players have a social structure there you need to shake up and break habits and social bonds their customers have with "their" current pool room.

If you can do all that and get a good rent price and know how to run a biz you have a shot, otherwise forget it.

if pool was doing well there would be a chain of "Fatboy's" all over LA, with each location a little different to appeal to the 2 mile radius social structure, in hispanic areas i'd tweek the room for that market, in Beverly hills i'd sell bagels to my Jewish customers, near Colleges i'd sell cheap beer and have more density and barboxes so the guys could meet girls. for my own hang out I'd build a players room(a sure way to lose $$$) but it wouldnt mattter cause i'd have 20,30,40 stores specific to the 2-3 mile radius of what ever 'hood I was in.


thats how you got to look at it, not what some one else is doing or counting their $$$, look AT WHAT YOU CAN DO.


my credentials:

never had a job in my life, been a biz man the whole time, didnt read any other posts in this thread.

best of luck

eric:smile:
 
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Lonestar_jim said:
I went to play the other afternoon with an AZ friend. We had the place mostly to ourselves until dark. The waitress began removing the standard lightbulbs from the fixture and installing black lights. Took off the regular balls and threw down the glow set. Installed some reflector strips under the rails and vioila, these Gold Crowns were ready for the finest entertainment experience pocket billiards has to offer.
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Only thing else they needed was some Ecstacy and some rave music...... :happydance:
 
They have gimmicks too

david(tx) said:
There is a similar set up in a rural area east of Greenville , Tx . My brother enjoys golf and his grown sons do to . There is a full bar i think and 4 eight foot coin ops . I think the driving range and bar are the main draws but my brother and his sons shoot pool there sometimes.

I think bowling alleys and pool tables were a good marriage for many years . Throw in some video games so junior and little sister have something to do when Dad is hitting golf balls .Think it is overkill with 3 size tables . Good luck .
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Lots of summertime stuff like midget wrestling, ladies mud wrestling, ladies oil wrestling. Lots of concerts outside too.

There is a nice highway patrolman waiting to pull you over for not using your turn signal as you exit the establishment. Pretty cool place, but not for me any more.
 
Fatboy said:
depends on the rent and the cost to open the doors,

your success haqs ZERO to do with the other rooms in the area, what they do is not related to you at all. Unlessthey have a waiting list for tables 7 nights a week, otherwise there are more tables than players. If there are more players than tables forget about whats going on down the street(you have no chance no matter what). This is a common mistake made by people who aint been in biz before-they see someone else doing good and think its a rite of passage to do well in the same biz down the raod a bit. aint knocking you jiust sticking to the text book facts of biz.

I have seen rooms with waiting lists damn near every night(god that was a long time ago)

if thats the case then you have a shot because there are too few tables for the number of players.

If that condition exists your still not a lock to succeed, because those players have a social structure there you need to shake up and break habits and social bonds their customers have with "their" current pool room.

If you can do all that and get a good rent price and know how to run a biz you have a shot, otherwise forget it.

if pool was doing well there would be a chain of "Fatboy's" all over LA, with each location a little different to appeal to the 2 mile radius social structure, in hispanic areas i'd tweek the room for that market, in Beverly hills i'd sell bagels to my Jewish customers, near Colleges i'd sell cheap beer and have more density and barboxes so the guys could meet girls. for my own hang out I'd build a players room(a sure way to lose $$$) but it wouldnt mattter cause i'd have 20,30,40 stores specific to the 2-3 mile radius of what ever 'hood I was in.


thats how you got to look at it, not what some one else is doing or counting their $$$, look AT WHAT YOU CAN DO.


my credentials:

never had a job in my life, been a biz man the whole time, didnt read any other posts in this thread.

best of luck

eric:smile:
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Fat-Lock (right),

I'm not looking to rent a place I'm looking to make an investment in buying Land and putting a building on it. I really appreciate your input here every post in this thread positive or negative is genuinely important to me.

I know you said you didn't look at any posts in the thread but I have replied to several addressing a few concerns. I think I realize now that I will NEED to have a full bar and depend on it for a good chunk of income.

I like your idea about appealing to a certain crowd and that is what I'm trying to accomplish with the driving range aspect of the place. This is a HUGE area for golf. I know that the driving range won't make me buckets full of money but it will get people to my establishment. Others here are more than likely right in the aspect that a bar will KEEP people in my establishment.

This is why I made this thread is to expand my own thinking. I'm very open minded and have been planning this for years. I'm open to any and all suggestions to make sure this is a success.
 
WhatRobEats said:
The Room Owner discussion forum gets no action, ever. So I figured here would be a better place to ask. I've found some good investors and have a pretty large sum of 'investment' money myself. For the sake of the numbers lets say around 750k.

What I'm looking to do is lease/purchase a plot of land that I can convert into a driving range, and put up a building to serve as a pool room. I'd like to have 10 bar boxes, 5 9 footers, and 5 8 footers. I'd really like to do only soda's and beer and maybe have a small kitchen for bar food type stuff (but I am a great cook) so that might change depending on business needs.

There are 2 pool rooms in my metropolitan area. One draws a pretty decent crowd and would be about 30 minutes South of my proposed location. The other is on the opposite side of town and is near empty every time I go there. (I've been doing a lot of opposition research) So I go to these 2 places often.

Am I setting myself up for failure and risking losing everything by doing this? I know pool isn't in the best shape these days. All of us enthusiast still play and want to have nice places to do so but not so much with the general public. Do I have a better opportunity for success by including the driving range?

Sorry to ramble on like this I've been thinking of opening a room for about 2 years now just haven't had the balls to pull the trigger, yet.

ps. If mods want to move this over to Room discussion go ahead. Just thought I would get more attention over here.
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The short answer - It's not a bad idea if you know what you're doing!
 
WhatRobEats said:
Fat-Lock (right),

I'm not looking to rent a place I'm looking to make an investment in buying Land and putting a building on it. I really appreciate your input here every post in this thread positive or negative is genuinely important to me.

I know you said you didn't look at any posts in the thread but I have replied to several addressing a few concerns. I think I realize now that I will NEED to have a full bar and depend on it for a good chunk of income.

I like your idea about appealing to a certain crowd and that is what I'm trying to accomplish with the driving range aspect of the place. This is a HUGE area for golf. I know that the driving range won't make me buckets full of money but it will get people to my establishment. Others here are more than likely right in the aspect that a bar will KEEP people in my establishment.

This is why I made this thread is to expand my own thinking. I'm very open minded and have been planning this for years. I'm open to any and all suggestions to make sure this is a success.
Click to expand...


if you build(which is a hole nother thing that i dont know much about-construction), i do know you should build a multi tenant building so you can have some rental above and beyond what you charge yourself(your pool room).

I's look to see if there is a existing building that you could carve out a space for yourself and rent the rest of it, that will save you 2-3 years of construction.

your right you need a full bar and video poker(if possible) to make it.

As jay said "If you know what your doing" its ok, the pool room biz is tough now days. real tough. So if you build plan for the worst who can rent it-if God forbid the room fails.

I wish you the best

eric
 
You need flexible equipment if you are unsure of the market demand.

Fortunately, Brunswick can provide you with dining pool and table tennis in one package. :grin:

http://www.brunswickbilliards.com/catalog/accessories/pool-table-conversion-tops.html

The money maker is table tennis
http://toronto.spingalactic.com/

Walk-In Rates After 5pm
General Public:
$30 per hour :eek:

Not far from me is a new sports bar/pool hall.
Took some balancing to get it right.
Cut down on the number of tables -started with 24 IIRC - (9 ft Diamonds and snooker) and increased the bar space.
Good food.
Deep-pockets financing- also owns this operation
http://www.playdium.com/index.php
Makes a bar/pool hall look like child's play.
 
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Scaramouche said:
You need flexible equipment if you are unsure of the market demand.

Fortunately, Brunswick can provide you with dining pool and table tennis in one package. :grin:

http://www.brunswickbilliards.com/catalog/accessories/pool-table-conversion-tops.html

The money maker is table tennis
http://toronto.spingalactic.com/

Walk-In Rates After 5pm
General Public:
$30 per hour :eek:

Not far from me is a new sports bar/pool hall.
Took some balancing to get it right.
Cut down on the number of tables -started with 24 IIRC - (9 ft Diamonds and snooker) and increased the bar space.
Good food.
Deep-pockets financing.
Click to expand...


Wow look at these rates the money is Canadian this is Crazy

Reservation Rates

Table reservations are $60/hour. Walk-in rates are listed below (these rates are lower as there is no guarantee that a table will be available).
Walk-in rates before 5pm

General Public:
$20 per hour
$10 per half hour

Member Rate:
$10 per hour
$5 per half hour
Walk-In Rates After 5pm

General Public:
$30 per hour
$15 per half hour

Member Rate:
$15 per hour
$7 per half hour
Group Reservations

If you are interested in contacting SPiN Toronto for a party please email events@toronto.spingalactic.com
 
elvicash said:
Wow look at these rates the money is Canadian this is Crazy

Reservation Rates

Table reservations are $60/hour. Walk-in rates are listed below (these rates are lower as there is no guarantee that a table will be available).
Walk-in rates before 5pm

General Public:
$20 per hour
$10 per half hour

Member Rate:
$10 per hour
$5 per half hour
Walk-In Rates After 5pm

General Public:
$30 per hour
$15 per half hour

Member Rate:
$15 per hour
$7 per half hour
Group Reservations

If you are interested in contacting SPiN Toronto for a party please email events@toronto.spingalactic.com
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So I guess the answer is move to Canada.. Holy Crap Batman.
 
WhatRobEats said:
So I guess the answer is move to Canada.. Holy Crap Batman.
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Move to Toronto - push real estate even higher.

Susan Sarandon is an investor.
Even if you could entice Fatboy, it wouldn't have the same free publicity impact. :D
 
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I would personally put all of the 16 hr days you would work in this business into finding a few positions in the market and try to edge out an 8 percent yearly gain in the market....you probably have a better shot at that and could make 60k/year in your pajamas.
 
jcrack_corn said:
I would personally put all of the 16 hr days you would work in this business into finding a few positions in the market and try to edge out an 8 percent yearly gain in the market....you probably have a better shot at that and could make 60k/year in your pajamas.
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And still be able to look at a pool table without showing it your biggest finger, I'd add.
 
WhatRobEats said:
I want to be you in 30 years. Sometimes you have to bet it all though right? You did. I feel like I have a good support system. I have a cousin that managed a very similar operation for over 10 years that's willing to work and manage my establishment. I have a wife with an MBA that is willing to tackle the business side of things. I have a BA in Communications to handle the promotional side of things.

This is certainly not something that I'm jumping into. If that were the case I would have done it when the thought first crossed my mind 2 years ago. There is a great deal of planning going on with this venture. Would I like a bank to back me? Sure. I'd much rather that then putting my savings on the line but maybe that doesn't happen. Gotta always have a plan b. Even if that plan b is not seeing this dream of mine coming to fruition.
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Perhaps not but so far your plan sounds like it's to build and service something, not to sell something.

The selling is the hard part. Grooming a strong customer base with continuous sustainable source of income is what the goal should be for any business.

My business plan was always servicing larger companies and using their resources to acquire business. I found that volume produced profits.

For example, say you have an Elk's Club. Offer your facilities for a recreational evening for them. Give them a great deal. Maybe rent some barbeques and tables, decorate the place, have a driving contest, a putting contest. They put it in their newspaper for their 3,000 members at their expense, promote and organize it themselves, take registrations - you just got a LOT of free advertising. Each of those guests is a new customer. And the Shrine with 5,000 members and the Masons and the American legion and the football boosters and the alumni association and the Musem foundation, etc etc.

Now, THAT's a business plan. It sounds like you may be young enough to take the risk. Just do the best you can to minimize your personal exposure and maximize your potential revenues. Form a corp and do it right - limit your personal liability. Sell it, then service it. That's the formula for a long, healthy business.
 
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TATE said:
Perhaps not but so far your plan sounds like it's to build and service something, not to sell something.

The selling is the hard part. Grooming a strong customer base with continuous sustainable source of income is what the goal should be for any buisenss.

My business plan was always servicing larger companies and using their resources to acquire business. I found that volume produced profits.

For example, say you have an Elk's Club. Offer your facilities for a recreational evening for them. Give them a great deal. Maybe rent some barbeques and tables, decorate the place, have a driving contest, a putting contest. They put it in their newspaper for their 3,000 members at their expense, promote and organize it themselves, take registrations - you just got a LOT of free advertising. Each of those guests is a new customer. And the Shrine with 5,000 members and the Masons and the American legion and the football boosters and the alumni association and the Musem foundation, etc etc.

Now, THAT's a business plan. It sounds like you may be young enough to take the risk. Just do the best you can to minimize your personal exposure and maximize your potential revenues. Form a corp and do it right - limit your personal liability. Sell it, then service it. That's the formula for a long, healthy business.
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Thank you very much for this advice. I did not really see this perspective but it's a pretty great plan. Reasons like this are why I haven't 'jumped in' yet and still just planning and dreaming.

I am young enough to not have the experience that others here on AZ may have. I'm also humble enough to willingly take the advice of those who do have a wealth of experience to draw from. I'm not stubborn in sticking to my own 'plan' because I think it's the best.

Thanks to all involved in this thread and please do keep the suggestions coming.
 
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The Saw said:
A-freaking-men!!! I ran a 24 hour operation in Columbus for 6-1/2 years, 24 tables, 20+ employees, over a million $ in sales.... No full bar means you may as well just set your money on fire..... Beer and liquor sales generated 70% of the money. Pool time, driving range, and short order food alone won't come close to paying the nut......
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Exactly. The way the leagues work out here, they pay next to nothing for table time - the tables are unlocked - the place just makes it off the F & B revenue. I don't really think they're profitable unless you have them there a LOT.
 
TATE said:
Exactly. The way the leagues work out here, they pay next to nothing for table time - the tables are unlocked - the place just makes it off the F & B revenue. I don't really think they're profitable unless you have them there a LOT.
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I was stuck in Amarillo Texas for work for a week, and I spent a fair bit of my time at Fast Eddies Billiards. Leaving leagues completely out, tables were 100% free Monday nights first come first serve, and basically the other 4 weekdays varied from $5 all you can play to free play with a $10 food/bev minimum. This wasn't a little place, 2 9's and 16 or so 8'. I can't imagine how they managed to stay open with effectively no table hourly revenue, but they apparently do. beer was cheap too :D
 
Where in Ohio do you live or planning this?

Also - don't get a vendor for your gaming/jukebox. You can buy a jukebox for $3,000 or less and be even very quickly on your investment if your place is busy. There are most likely repair guys in your area that will fix the machine if something goes wrong.

I know a little something about Golden Tee as well. Depending on where you are in Ohio, you can make a lot of money off this game and pay a substantial part of your monthly nut.
 
watchez said:
Where in Ohio do you live or planning this?

Also - don't get a vendor for your gaming/jukebox. You can buy a jukebox for $3,000 or less and be even very quickly on your investment if your place is busy. There are most likely repair guys in your area that will fix the machine if something goes wrong.

I know a little something about Golden Tee as well. Depending on where you are in Ohio, you can make a lot of money off this game and pay a substantial part of your monthly nut.
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A bit north of the 275 loop.

Golden Tee is the basis of my business model. I know a little about it as well.
 
watchez said:
What town/city is the 275 loop?
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I'm not quite sure what town yet. I'm still scouting properties north of the I-275 loop.

Edit: I get your question now. The 275 loop circles around the Cincinnati area.
 
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