Is Mike Sigel the best ever?

Johnnyt said:
I don't buy that there is or was a BEST player ever. It's like flavor of the month. Who is winning the tournaments at the moment is not always the best player in the country much less the world.

As far as Mosconi, he was a great player for sure. But the best in his time...not in my book. He was geting paid to play. If he played top road player for money and beat them, I'd feel differnt. Before TV and the Internet their were guys that very rarely played in tournaments or left their part of the country that could and did beat the top name players when they came to their neck of the woods.

Players like Jay Helfert that have been around the block a few times can tell you about players that most of us never heard of years ago that he would have and probably did put in the box with name champions. Johnnyt
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I have to agree with you. The best player ever is probably someone no one ever heard of. Some of the best players never wanted to be known, because it would hurt their income.
 
Bohemian said:
I would be interested in any documented, official 400+ball continuous runs in straight pool though if you have any info post up...
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Thomas Engert of Germany ran 492. It is the most significant high run in the modern pool era (IMO).

Earl Strickland has a high run of 408 - incredible for someone that never plays the game and doesn't know or care what an end pattern is. I can only imagine what it would be if he knew what the hell he was doing.

:shrug:

I believe that Thorsten Hohmann has a high run of 408 also. He also told me that his 408 was the one and only time he has run over 200 balls.

John Schmidt has a high run of 403, and I believe that if anyone breaks the 526 mark, it will be him.

I am one of the people that believe that Mike Eufemia ran 625. I also believe that Babe Cranfield's 768 in practice is the highest run ever.
 
Highmiles said:
I have to agree with you. The best player ever is probably someone no one ever heard of. Some of the best players never wanted to be known, because it would hurt their income.
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This thought, though seemingly the prevailing sentiment, is ludicrous to me. Just think about this: how many "unknown" sporting figures became millionairs vs those who were known. Not too damn many. Pool players need to wake up and PROMOTE THEMSELVES AND THE GAME if they ever want to have a decent shot at some decent scratch. If you want to hustle in the shadows of some s$%t hole bar for chump change for the rest of your life, be my guest. But, if you want to make some serious earnings, you must get out there and become known around the world. Seriously, Efren wouldn't have gotten those sweet endorsement contracts over in PHI had he remained anonymous.

Pool players need to wake up and smell the $$$!
 
atthecat said:
It's really hard to say who's the best ever. Sigel is a front runner for sure...top 3. Here are the best pool players that I've seen. No particular order.

Sigel, Varner, Strictland, Hall, Archer, Reyes, and Bustamante. If Mark Tadd stayed in the game, he would be on the list.

Sigel: Vast knowledge and knows how to win.
Varner: Steady and smooth. Doesn't rattle.
Strickland: A freak! Intimidating with his stroke and fearlessness.
Hall: Does everything right. Methodical stroke. Very diliberate.
Archer: Intense concentration and focus. Amazing stroke and knowledge.
Reyes: Wisdom.
Bustamante: Shot maker deluxe. Always a threat.
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If you are starting this list at 12 or 13th best youve got some of the names right. Obviously people that post these list werent around when guys like Worst,Wills,Lasiter,Beritknof,Allen,Murrphy and alot more were gambling everyday.
 
jalapus logan said:
This thought, though seemingly the prevailing sentiment, is ludicrous to me. Just think about this: how many "unknown" sporting figures became millionairs vs those who were known. Not too damn many. Pool players need to wake up and PROMOTE THEMSELVES AND THE GAME if they ever want to have a decent shot at some decent scratch. If you want to hustle in the shadows of some s$%t hole bar for chump change for the rest of your life, be my guest. But, if you want to make some serious earnings, you must get out there and become known around the world. Seriously, Efren wouldn't have gotten those sweet endorsement contracts over in PHI had he remained anonymous.

Pool players need to wake up and smell the $$$!
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I used to believe the best player ever was someone no one ever heard of. But it's not logically possible. To get to that level you have to have played champion players consistently and eventually have beaten them. I don't think anyone gets to be world class speed playing in their basement. Perhaps they MAY be able to attain that level in practice but I doubt they'd be able to bring it to the match table and who really cares how good you play in practice? Which means there would be plenty of champions out there who would know of this guy who crushes everyone.

So unless there is an island of champion players with no access to the outside world, it can't be possible. The best chance is if the phillipines had a player playing Super Champion Speed before Efren and Jose came to the states.

Any players who give the world the seven and don't play in tournaments will be known about especially today. Don Willis is pretty well known an I don't think he ever played any major tournaments.

Who's the greatest ever? Hell if I know. Oliver Ortmann played some amazing straight pool a couple years ago though (not saying he's the greates ever).
 
Hemicuda, do you drag race cars?

hemicudas said:
It's amazing how tough it is to find something I disagree with Jay on but here is one.

In the mid 70s, Ronnie Allen, all but begged Mike to play even one pocket with Mike taking a pass both times I was witness. In my 60 years on earth, Efren, is the only person I think played better one pocket than, Ronnie.

All players had their "Time Period" of greatness. In the early 70s when Buddy lived in Shreiveport, LA no one had a prayer of beating him playing 9 ball. In the mid 70s, Keith McCready, was the best bar table player alive. Earl, ruled the 9 ball tournament trail for ages.

The greatest pool player I have ever seen, playing all games, is Efren. No one ever invented more moves than Efren. No one had better cue ball control. Efren also has a personality that gives Mike the 6 ball.
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This question is not about pool. But I like your name, is why I am aking you this question! Shades of Bob Reed, Sox and Martin, Ram Chargers, Mr Norm! Thanks.
Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
Mr. Wiggles, I am glad you opened your mouth!

Mr. Wiggles said:
I was just going to read these great posts, but I can't keep my mouth shut any longer. Efren is the man. I agree some of the greatest were roadies who rarely played tourneys. Mattock is one of my favorites cause he's from Okla. I beat David in Tulsa on a big table, race to 7. I know it wasn't a bar box but heh I wasn't a big table player either, so we were both out of our element! Best player I ever beat and my claim to fame! Played Siegel in a exhibition and he ran the only rack he ran all night! What a thrill just to play champions. Billiards is the only sport where you can actually play the best in the world. Anybody play golf with Tiger? Basketball with Jordan? A few rounds with Mike Tyson? Rafael Martinez not getting enough press IMO.
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Pool, is where you can play champions even if you do not beat them! That means a lot to pool players all over the world. Thanks, Mr. Wiggles. I agree with you 100%.
Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
Sigel recruited KT to give promote big payouts and lure new investors into the sport.

Sigel is number 1.
 
hemicudas said:
It's amazing how tough it is to find something I disagree with Jay on but here is one.

In the mid 70s, Ronnie Allen, all but begged Mike to play even one pocket with Mike taking a pass both times I was witness. In my 60 years on earth, Efren, is the only person I think played better one pocket than, Ronnie.

All players had their "Time Period" of greatness. In the early 70s when Buddy lived in Shreiveport, LA no one had a prayer of beating him playing 9 ball. In the mid 70s, Keith McCready, was the best bar table player alive. Earl, ruled the 9 ball tournament trail for ages.

The greatest pool player I have ever seen, playing all games, is Efren. No one ever invented more moves than Efren. No one had better cue ball control. Efren also has a personality that gives Mike the 6 ball.
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Efren is a great sport. Never any outbursts. Class act. It was sad to see Sigel go on tilt and break his shaft or cue during his 14.1 match with John Schimdt several years back.
 
Price Bogart said:
Efren is a great sport. Never any outbursts. Class act. It was sad to see Sigel go on tilt and break his shaft or cue during his 14.1 match with John Schimdt several years back.
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Way to go selling out Americans. Try consider writing an epitaph (the thing put on gravestones) or a eulogy (the speech given at a funeral).
Mike promoted the sport and it changed, there are more investors and promoters than prior to his return with his ex-henchman.
 
IMHO For consistency I still think Mike Sigel (AKA: Captain Hook, Mr. Finals, The Mouth) is the greatest all-around still living player...

IF Efren still keeps playing he may yet, get close or surpass the raw number of titles in different cue-sport disciplines that Mike Sigel has to-date...

And Earl "The Pearl" Strickland the greatest living 9-ball player for the same reason...

Willie Mosconi greatest of all time to-date...

I do hope some promoters finally start getting pool the golf-sized paydays and recognition it so deserves...
 
Quoting HEmicudas:
Ronnie Allen, all but begged Mike to play even one pocket with Mike taking a pass both times I was witness. In my 60 years on earth, Efren, is the only person I think played better one pocket than, Ronnie.

That is not a surprise. Ronnie was a top player at 1p and Sigel was not. Mike gets a spot from our best 1p players today and they don't want 10-7 from a Gabe/ Frost/ Pagulayan. I know he isn't at the top of his game now, but sure as hell isn't pool retarded either.

I'm sure one could say ~"Mike , all but begged Ronnie Allen to play even 9b with Ronni taking a pass".
 
justnum said:
Way to go selling out Americans. Try consider writing an epitaph (the thing put on gravestones) or a eulogy (the speech given at a funeral).
Mike promoted the sport and it changed, there are more investors and promoters than prior to his return with his ex-henchman.
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No question Mike had one of the strongest games of "All Time". I was responding to

-Humicudas- Line>
"Efren also has a personality that gives Mike the 6 ball."

I do think Mike had one of Best games ever-That being said-IMHO I don't think it was the Best ever...
 
I like Mike. I like that when he was faced with a really difficult shot he would figuratively roll up his sleeves and do what needed to be done.

I think Grady commented once during a 14.1 match that if he had a hard shot, there was nobody else in the world he wanted shooting that shot other than Sigel.

That being said, Efren is the best past and present. This is of course my opinion, but I don't think anyone could come up with an arguement that would persuade me otherwise.
 
Didn't Efren, in an interview around the King of the Hill, say Mike was the all time best? Would that persuade you?:)
 
Sigel was the best all-around tournament player I've ever seen. He was just so consistent, he never seemed to have a bad day. I'm not saying he was more skilled than Reyes he was just harder to beat than Reyes. He played so good under pressure. Reyes didn't really start winning big events until Sigel retired. Sigel just had his number, winning something like 9 or 10 of their 12 encounters.

I remember watching Reyes and Sigel play each other in tournaments a couple of times around 1990-1991 and thinking that they're both as skilled as anyone but Sigel was going to win. He just made fewer mistakes (if any) than Reyes.
 
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this is the list

I like this list

wincardona said:
I have had the privlidge to watch and play the best players in the last 45 years. Lassiter,Crane,Kelly,Sigel,Hall,Reyes,Hopkins,,Varner,Parica,Strickland,Archer, but never played or watched Worst play. I have often heard that Worst was the best ever and he may have been ,but I can only grade the players that i've played or watched through the years.

Neither Lassiter nor Crane played one pocket,but they excelled in all the other games. Crane played great 9 ball but he couldn't break the balls,that in addition to not playing one pocket takes him out of the running.Plus I never saw either of them play banks.Kelly played all games at the highest level,definetly a contender.

Sigel and Hall ruled in the 80's. That duo was very special ,bringing us the best 9 ball battles ever,but Sigel played all games at the highest level..Varner made his presence felt in the late 80'sthrough the 90's and he was a terror,plus he played all games and played them great.Reyes joined these players also in the late 80's,and he has proven that he plays all games great,all games,Hopkins played close to those four but was not quite at their level. It's very hard to include Strickland with these players because he only played 9 ball,but he could be the best 9 ball player in the lot,could be.Parica also only played 9 ball,but did learn one pocket later but I can't put him in the running of the best ever. Then came Archer,he has proven he can play 9 ball with the best and a little straight pool to,but falls behind in all other games.

Here are my top 5 best players in the last 45 years
#1--Reyes
#2--Sigel
#3--Kelly
#4--Varner
#5--Hall
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