Almost none of them ever play with their own money. Otherwise most of them would not be playing. You can take that to the bank.
I just realized I posted 4 times in a row in thisa thread can anybody spell OCD?
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Is Mike Sigel the best ever?
- Thread starter wrldpro
- Start date
Almost none of them ever play with their own money. Otherwise most of them would not be playing. You can take that to the bank.
I just realized I posted 4 times in a row in thisa thread can anybody spell OCD?
I don't like to compare different generations but this thread was worth it.
To me Mike is a straight pool player, one of the best ever, with a record that speaks for itself, and is still a threat to run out anytime.
We are not baseball. We do not have an Elias Sports Bureau, but even this is not enough.
Who was the best pitcher all time? Ron Guidry put up some amazing numbers in '78: 25 wins vs only 3 losses.just 1.74 era. Crazy numbers. Best ever? I don't know. Others had more strikeouts, Some had perfect games. NOT ENOUGH INFO. Can there ever be enough information to answer this question.
I kind of think all one can ever hope to be is the best player today.
steven
To me Mike is a straight pool player, one of the best ever, with a record that speaks for itself, and is still a threat to run out anytime.
We are not baseball. We do not have an Elias Sports Bureau, but even this is not enough.
Who was the best pitcher all time? Ron Guidry put up some amazing numbers in '78: 25 wins vs only 3 losses.just 1.74 era. Crazy numbers. Best ever? I don't know. Others had more strikeouts, Some had perfect games. NOT ENOUGH INFO. Can there ever be enough information to answer this question.
I kind of think all one can ever hope to be is the best player today.
steven
I know someday you'll have a beautiful life. I know you'll be a star. In somebody else's sky.
When big money was on the line....
Efren won more of it than any other player....
Jaden
Guys when big money was on the line like $25 to $30,000 BUDDY HALL was in the finals more than any other touring player!! Thats a fact!
Efren won more of it than any other player....
Jaden
Matlock
I was just going to read these great posts, but I can't keep my mouth shut any longer. Efren is the man. I agree some of the greatest were roadies who rarely played tourneys. Mattock is one of my favorites cause he's from Okla. I beat David in Tulsa on a big table, race to 7. I know it wasn't a bar box but heh I wasn't a big table player either, so we were both out of our element! Best player I ever beat and my claim to fame! Played Siegel in a exhibition and he ran the only rack he ran all night! What a thrill just to play champions. Billiards is the only sport where you can actually play the best in the world. Anybody play golf with Tiger? Basketball with Jordan? A few rounds with Mike Tyson? Rafael Martinez not getting enough press IMO.
I was just going to read these great posts, but I can't keep my mouth shut any longer. Efren is the man. I agree some of the greatest were roadies who rarely played tourneys. Mattock is one of my favorites cause he's from Okla. I beat David in Tulsa on a big table, race to 7. I know it wasn't a bar box but heh I wasn't a big table player either, so we were both out of our element! Best player I ever beat and my claim to fame! Played Siegel in a exhibition and he ran the only rack he ran all night! What a thrill just to play champions. Billiards is the only sport where you can actually play the best in the world. Anybody play golf with Tiger? Basketball with Jordan? A few rounds with Mike Tyson? Rafael Martinez not getting enough press IMO.
I totally agree. Efren will be the legendary player of this era. Sigel, Earl and Buddy are next in line. All GREAT players, but Efren was magical!
Greenleaf had Ponzi, Mosconi had Crane and Caras, Lassiter had Balsis and Moore, and Efren had Earl, Sigel and Buddy (+ his arch rival Parica). Every legendary player of each era had equally great rivals that pushed him to even greater heights.
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Just how many Efrens are there??
I just wanted to point out that there is one, and only one, player who appears in every category.
Pretty good list, and of course, there are many different opinions. Here are a couple things that stood out for me.
Greenleaf was not even mentioned in your top 7 for straight pool.
No Buddy Hall mentioned in 9-ball.
'Rags' was not mentioned in one pocket when many of the top players say he was the best...including Eddie Taylor.
Efren and Freddy on the lost for top bank pool players. Of course they are great players...but what about Gary Spaeth, Donnie Anderson, John Brumback, etc.?
PS. I see that I responded to this thread a few years back.
Sorry if I repeated myself at all.
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Hhhhhhmmmm not sure if I would put Mike as the best ever in all around playing. I really think I would peg Efren ahead of Sigel in that category.
I wouldn't even put Sigel in the top 5 all time in 14.1. He is without a doubt top 5 all time (numero uno imo) in 9 ball. His tournament record speaks for itself.
A good question to pose would be: If the greatest players of all time (dead or alive) were given a one year notice of an all around world championship (14.1, 9 ball, banks, 1p and 8 ball) so they could prepare....who would win? In a grind it out tournament like that it's really hard not to say that Efren wouldn't come out on top.
I wouldn't even put Sigel in the top 5 all time in 14.1. He is without a doubt top 5 all time (numero uno imo) in 9 ball. His tournament record speaks for itself.
A good question to pose would be: If the greatest players of all time (dead or alive) were given a one year notice of an all around world championship (14.1, 9 ball, banks, 1p and 8 ball) so they could prepare....who would win? In a grind it out tournament like that it's really hard not to say that Efren wouldn't come out on top.
In such an event, Sigel and then Varner would be Efren's closest competition. Efren doesn't have to win against either of these two imo. Even with all his special skills, he would not be a lock against either man. You may not know this, but Nick had Efren's number for a long time. I'm certain he has a winning record against him overall.
I'd be hard pressed not to put Mosconi in there as well considering all were in their prime. The reason is that Mosconi seemed to have a competitive level in him like no other (winning meant far more than money to him). If all were given a year to practice I think he may very well be in the mix as well.
ive always thought mike sigel was the best 9 ball player ever. maybe thats not what this thread is about, but i really believe that, and ive watched so much pool.
i find it interesting to compare sigel and efren's 9 ball games only (to compare more gets so complicated). sigel had some internal calculator that i didnt see efren have..... he was able to see, feel and realize when he was in a really tough spot, that simply blasting the balls was his best option percentage wise. further, i giggle when people call sigel the luckiest player ever. i dont think it is luck when you continually take the best possible shot for yourself, which is what he did imo.
i find it interesting to compare sigel and efren's 9 ball games only (to compare more gets so complicated). sigel had some internal calculator that i didnt see efren have..... he was able to see, feel and realize when he was in a really tough spot, that simply blasting the balls was his best option percentage wise. further, i giggle when people call sigel the luckiest player ever. i dont think it is luck when you continually take the best possible shot for yourself, which is what he did imo.
Mike Sigel No Question IMHO
According to both Efren & Mike...
Mike Sigel has beaten Efren more times than any other player... (followed closely by Keith McCready)
AND was the first American player to beat Efren when he first started playing on American soil in the 80's...
AND Efren still says in interview after interview that he respects Mike Sigel more than any other player he has ever played...
Mike's lifetime wins are more consistent than Efren's...
My vote is best all around living... Mike Sigel...
Best 9 ball living ... Earl Strickland ... (was pocket billiards 1st recognized millionaire (non-gambling $ won playing mostly 9-ball in a single year)
In the Hong-Kong Color of money race to 123 (ONE HUNDRED & TWENTY-THREE GAMES) for 100k Earl beat Efren by a bigger average level of play, even though Efren barely won the match by 3 games...
Buddy Hall has a pretty awesome lifetime 9 ball record as well, but could never hold a candle to the likes of Steve Mizerak or Mike Sigel in Straight Pool...
Best ever of all time ... Willie Mosconi, with Ralf Greenleaf a close 2nd...
(Although Willie said Ralf was better) Willie's records may never be broken (526 ball continuous run anyway on a 5x10 foot table no less)... Mike Sigel has come the closest of anybody with something like 339 on 4.5x9)
According to both Efren & Mike...
Mike Sigel has beaten Efren more times than any other player... (followed closely by Keith McCready)
AND was the first American player to beat Efren when he first started playing on American soil in the 80's...
AND Efren still says in interview after interview that he respects Mike Sigel more than any other player he has ever played...
Mike's lifetime wins are more consistent than Efren's...
My vote is best all around living... Mike Sigel...
Best 9 ball living ... Earl Strickland ... (was pocket billiards 1st recognized millionaire (non-gambling $ won playing mostly 9-ball in a single year)
In the Hong-Kong Color of money race to 123 (ONE HUNDRED & TWENTY-THREE GAMES) for 100k Earl beat Efren by a bigger average level of play, even though Efren barely won the match by 3 games...
Buddy Hall has a pretty awesome lifetime 9 ball record as well, but could never hold a candle to the likes of Steve Mizerak or Mike Sigel in Straight Pool...
Best ever of all time ... Willie Mosconi, with Ralf Greenleaf a close 2nd...
(Although Willie said Ralf was better) Willie's records may never be broken (526 ball continuous run anyway on a 5x10 foot table no less)... Mike Sigel has come the closest of anybody with something like 339 on 4.5x9)
Willie's run was on a 4x8...not a 5x10. 339 is nowhere near close to 2nd place. There are many 400+ runs out there. Schmidt, Hopkins, Strickland, Nagy, etc....
Continuous is the operative word...
you maybe right on the 4x8 v. 5x10 but Willie certainly spent a lot of time on the 5x10's... not sure Wikipedia is right on that one; pretty sure I read 5x10, but its moot anyway... notwithstanding the cloth they played on then was like canvas, nothing like the 860 that has found its way from billiards to pool tables...
I know Schmidt ran a continuous run of something like 272 in straight pool because its on tape/dvd; but I have not seen anything else to-date to support a 400 ball continuous run in straight pool by anybody... does not mean it has not happened, but I would bet money that Earl Strickland never ran any where near that in straight pool... he's the 9-ball guru, although he has recent 10-ball & 8 ball wins in big tournaments...
saw him run 13 straight 9 ball racks once though in competition...
Rempe ran some 200+ during some tournament if I recall correctly, which is how he got his King James nickname I understand...
Mizerak played Grady in a race to 1000 and beat Grady 1000 to -something like 334 but neither had a continuous run of more than 150 in that money game... (straight-pool) Mizerak wrote in one of his books "Grady can't spell straight-pool" but he's the best one-pocket player that ever lived...
Mike & Willie's info is in the record books and Mike was the youngest ever to be inducted into the hall of fame...
I would be interested in any documented, official 400+ball continuous runs in straight pool though if you have any info post up...
I would imagine a 400 + ball run would be possible in 9-ball, but 44+ racks without a miss, and 44+ racks without failing to pocket a ball on the break would be nothing short of a miracle... since the best breakers in 9-ball are only hitting 60% as far as I have been able to find thus far...
the last few US Open 9-ball tournaments I watched I don't think anybody ran more than 4 or 5 racks in a row...
thanks in advance.
Excuse my ignorance, but what didn't Efren play?
Schmidt ran over 400 twice...continuous...on a 4.5x9. Hopkins and Strickland each had either 408 or 410 ball runs....continuous of 4.5x9....Nagy did too. Engert ran (something like) 481 continuous on a 4.5 x 9. All of the above did so playing 14.1, in one inning, on the same day....playing like God. Nobody is running 400 balls in 9ball...ever...
Schmidt ran 403 in front of numerous witnesses at Q-Masters the night before the US Open started 4 years ago. Bustamante was one of the witnesses. 27 out of 28 break shots were conventional side of the rack breaks, the other one was behind the rack.
I have the master copy of him running 366 on video. It will be released for sale shortly, if I can ever get him to sit down and do the player review.
Bill