Is the economy affecting the American billiards industry?

JAM

I am the storm
Silver Member
In these tough economic times, everyone has to tighten up their purse strings and decide what to spend their hard-earned monies on.

Escalade, a maker of sports and office equipment, said its sales of billiard tables to Sears and Roebucks fell in the first quarter of 2008 about 60 percent below where they had been a year ago.

Now, this could mean that smart folk are purchasing their equipment from Diamond, Brunswick, Olhausen, Gabriel, and the other leading billiard table manufacturers. ;)

According to an article in the Evansville Press, which is Escalade's home base: During the past decade, Escalade Sports has grown rapidly, largely by buying other makers of sports products. They have included the businesses behind the Mosconi, Mizerak and Murrey brands of billiards tables; the Goalrilla and Goaliath brands of basketball goals; and the Trophy Ridge brand of archery accessories. To stay apace of the competition, Escalade has imported some products from China, along with making others in the United States and Mexico.

With decades-old pool rooms closing their doors for good and now the billiards industry movers and shakers cutting back on their product line, it does not look good for American pool.

Tournaments are already happening overseas more frequently today, as sponsors are more forthcoming elsewhere than the United States, a country which used to be the main hub for professional pool players around the world. Remember the Filipino Invasion?

Production cues and cases are already more popular in the United States than American custom-made cues and cases because of cost to the consumer. As most know, the majority of pool players in America are social shooters. Whereas, our fine American custom-made cases and cues do sell just fine overseas. Ask Black Boar cues, as an example.

Maybe this Escalade is just another economic hiccup, but to me it is a sign of the times that at least American pool remains in a slump and is not on the comeback trail. The new-and-improved BCA may step up to the plate, but I remain in a wait-and-see mode for that to happen, at least as it pertains to professional pool.

I think maybe the billiards industry was already suffering before the economy took a dive. If there was ever a need for a hit movie about pool, though, it is RIGHT NOW! :p

JAM
 
Jam

I think todays economy is hurting more than just the pool business. I know one of my golf leagues that has 90 teams, and year in and year out turns away teams because it always fill up. This year we were about 10 teams short. If gas hit 4.00 bucks a gallon which it looks like it will it will hurt alot more industries as already has been proven with the way things are already going. I still think people will continue to take there vacations because people always seem willing to spend money doing that even if it means charging it and going into more debt.

I don't really have a solution for today's pool problems but as a true lover of the game I hope soething good happens for us very soon. Keep on keeping on.

Kevin
 
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I think a lot of things are afecting pool right now, the economy being just one of them. At the pro level nothing is EVER going to happen until someone stops talking about a true billiard org. and gets off their ass and starts one.

The theory that a bad economy is good for pool is not true anymore either. There was no TV to watch back then and people today have all kinds of payments a month (like wide screen tv's:D ) to make before they even think about going to a poolroom. Johnnyt
 
All three of you make very valid points as it pertains to the economy here in the States. I'm not sure what I'm going to do about the wide-screen TV problem which will occur on February 9, 2009, but it would be a good time to buy stock in the major television manufacturers, I would think. :p

It just seems that pool is not given a chance in mainstream America on the news, like other sports. In a recent article in The Star, a paper from overseas that I cannot tell what country it is from, the lovely Georgina Chang, a face that looks familiar to me from the WPC broadcast this year, interviews Chang Jung-Lin who won the Penang trophy for the Guinness 9-Ball Tour recently. Here is the article: http://www.star-ecentral.com/news/story.asp?file=/2008/4/11/tvnradio/20914237&sec=tvnradio

Pool has a chance to thrive in overseas countries because it is given more attention in the print media.

BTW, I loved the way she interviewed various players in the article, especially when she got to Alex Pagulayan. :D :D :D :D

As I pondered on Yang's opinion over dinner, I was distracted by a loud commotion next to us. It turned out to be the diminutive dynamite Alex Pagulayan from the Philippines. As he sat down, we invited him to join us, to which he answered by ordering a round of tequila shots.

He was knocked out in the 1st round in Penang and wanted badly to drown his sorrows. Well, I assure you, he was far from sorrowful. He regaled us with tales of his adventures and had us in stitches with his impersonation of one of the best 9-Ball players of all time, Earl Strickland, a Billiard Congress of America's Hall of Fame inductee.

Taking advantage of his verbose mood, I asked him why he thought the Filipino players were not doing well on this tour. They have not won a single trophy since last year. Shaking his head, Alex said that the Filipinos don't get to play enough on this tour. It's true, I have seen different faces representing the Philippines over the last few years.

He also explained that the Filipinos don't play well with short races. They generally prefer longer racks, like a race to 18 or 20. He felt that in longer races, the better player prevails. They also don't enjoy the alternate break format that gives the lesser player a chance to equalize the score.

He added that most of them dislike the soft break, since it's not considered as a display of skill, in the frustrated words of Strickland at a match years ago when his opponent was using the soft break, "He's breaking like a girl."


I love Alex Pagulayan! :p

Pool needs a boost here in the States. With billiard manufacturers pulling their purse strings, like Cutec not sponsoring Earl Strickland, Johnny Archer losing sponsorship from one of his main sponsors, and now Escalade not producing tables for Sears, things continue to get worse.

In my area, there are no "real" pool rooms anymore. They are sports bars.

JAM
 
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Tv

We need Television exposure.

What if there were a station sponsored by Pool, Poker, Darts, Etc. tours. A station with the unique sports/games such as these.

It just seems it should be possible to do this. Commercial sponsorship for all these Sports/games should be enough.:confused: I think.:D

Hell! Put hecklers in the crowd while they're playing pool. Treat pool like hockey and make some noise. That'll make it interesting enough for all to watch. Call it the Hecklers tour. Hehehe!
 
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The decline in all areas of the American lifestyle is IMO related to finances first. It's the basis of everything we do. The cost of all fuels as well as food has significantly risen in recent times. Combine that with the recent downturn in the job market in general and there is less all around. Any person on the bubble is in serious jeporady of going down the hopper thus they will hold off on anything extra as they should. There is a real possibility of things getting much worse before they get better for us all.
Good Luck to all,
Dan
 
I've worked in the billiards industrie for the last 19 years and this is the worst I've seen it.And the future doesn't look very good.
 
Looks like we're on our way to becoming Mexico or the Philippines, economically and politically. But should that HURT pool?
 
This is one thing I have alot of experience in. Although the overall industry might take a hit, pool halls themselves will thrive. Recessions and Depressions always lead to higher numbers and profits at any establishments that have a liquor license. Scary to think that the one thing people spend their money on in the hard times is alcohol.
 
Johnnyt said:
There was no TV to watch back then and people today have all kinds of payments a month (like wide screen tv's:D ) to make before they even think about going to a poolroom. Johnnyt



Good point about the wide screen tv's

About a year and a half ago when I dropped in to a suburban pool table store (They sold Olhausen tables among others, very nice place ) I was chatting with the owner and he said that he was doing somewhat okay but things had dropped down a bit directly because of folks purchasing wide screen HDTV's.

Makes sense but I might disagree about how this affects pool in general. Maybe the upside is that more people have to get out of the house to play if they want?

Less owners = More renters :D
 
I don't know about the industry as a whole but in Maine it had a definite impact over the winter months. With gasoline @ $3 plus and heating oil @ $3.50 for most of the winter, I saw about a 30% drop in our weekly tournaments during Dec, Jan and Feb. In March I saw that 30% come back in force, actually had an increase over last year, and a lot of new faces too. Some of the increase could be attributed to "Spring Fever" because we had a tough winter (about 130 inches of snow). All in all the 07/08 season produced almost exactly the same income as the 06/07 season, the money came in during different months though. The tournament is run to raise money for the American Legion.
 
my 4 cents(factoring in inflation)


my back ground, I went to college for 3 years and didnt learn to spell but I did take mostly economics and chemistry, i took those classes cause I liked them, I got thrown out of school for bad grades, I blame that on the Jointed Cue in Sacramento-true story(best thing that ever happened to me), but it was fun and I learned more in the pool room than school anyways, squares arnt my bag. So thats Fatboy's resume'. (like anyone cares) :p .


there are 2 kinds of money supply in america M1 and M2, I dont remember what the difference is, but I know this....When the average hard working American who contributes to our economy by producing goods and services by going to work everyday is doing the right thing and should be compensated for his/her efforts by just compensation from their employer and typically they are or they find another job-hence the job market., Assuming they are they should be able to maintain a standard of living-true it varies from one person to the next but none the less a decent life style. And for the past 25 -30 years thats been the case with the exception of a few regonal difficulties. So whats the problem?....

Oil prices, when you take a person or family as described above and all of a sudden they have to spend and extra $100/week on gas, and have inflation because there are fuel sur-charges for the trucks delivering the food to the market etc you get cost push inflation(demand pull inflation is what happens to Bushkas cause everybody wants one for example) Cost push inflation is determental to the economy as we have no choice, demand pull we do, perhaps you dont like Bushkas or can live with out one, but since its cost push inflation we simpally dont have enough $$$ its going bye-bye everytime a trucker moves a load or you drive to work. Its out of our control for now.

So the increased oil prices are putting the screw's to all of us, I was just in Germany for a week, Europe is having the same problems, mortgage melt downs, etc. it was all over the news,

The only people in the world at the monent who are having a party every night own oil. I was watching the Saudi, Dudai, Ridah, Quatar etc. TV channels while I was in Germany last week for hours as I couldnt leave the room. and you would think there are no problems, you would think the world was better than ever, the pictures of the new shopping malls the $100,000 fur coats, the $500,000 watches, $50,000,000 private jets for kids, God only knows how much the elders blow on toys, its endless and I do mean ENDLESS $$$, I have never seen anything like it, the construction there is endless 65 hotels in Dubal are going up as we speak and make the Wynn look like a dump. They are grind the shit out of the world til were at the breaking point then they will back off a little, and were blowing $$$ we dont have on a war for what? hell if that war wasnt going on we could use part of that $$$ for fuel subsitys for the poor, truckers, to protect our country here at home, not look for WMD's that arnt there, thats another topic.

how did that happen? easy everytime we buy fuel a $20 bill for a easy example leaves the USA weather we like it or not and that means its out of our hands its like a heavy rake in a poker game soon enough everyone goes bust,

how will it affect pool, not like it did in the 20's that was a domestic redistribution of wealth, not a exodious of our cheese, its bad news and my biz is getting hammered real bad as well. sux

to answere JAM's question directly I dont think its gonna hurt or help the industry, I can make arguments both ways of equal value so its a push, IMO.
 
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I Fort Wayne, IN...

And the surrounding area, I see very little "signs" of this downturn in the economy. I am constantly surprised to see 4x4 pick-ups/SUV's and various gas guzzlers still out on the road. It seems that all the restaurant parking lots are always full, as are furniture stores, Meijer, Walmart, ect.

Regarding the pool/billiard specific community: we have no "real nice" place to play, e.g. 9 footers, Diamonds/Goldcrowns, just mostly Valley bar boxes. There are a couple kept up pretty good. From what I see, these places still do good business. As mentioned by an earlier poster, the majority of these places have turned into more of a "sports bar". They even do decent lunch business.

So, my point is, I'm not seeing it here.....yet anyways.

I see the news, read the paper and various internet blogs talking about the economy being so bad, I just think it would be a little more obvious is all.:confused:
 
There are a number of varying circumstances that have completely ruined the pool scene in Southwest Ohio. 10 years ago there were at least 20 rooms in Cincinnati and I am willing to bet there will be no more than 3 within a year. I've heard of four more that will probably be closing in the next month or so. The economy is the biggest factor but there are many others also. People only have so much money for recreation and with energy and food prices soaring well above inflation rates there is little money left. Over the years there have been many other hits. Pool tables take up a lot of room to play on and since rental property is rented by the square foot that makes the overhead high. There has been no, good, new movies in years to perk the interest of new players. The real start of the downfall in the Cincinnati area started with the Ohio lottery. Some of the extra entertainment money was siphoned off for that. Then along came the gambling boats. There went another chunk of change. Next came the Texas Hold-um craze where every body could invest 20 or 30 dollars and get a fist full of chips to gamble with so that they could feel like old cowboys or some such and latest is the new law in Ohio where a person can't smoke in a public place. That was the coup d grace for pool in Cincinnati. Business dropped by 50% the day that law went into affect. They say only around 30% of people smoke but I know that a larger amount of pool players do. Pool being a mental game as much as a physical one so is really affected by not smoking if you are used to a cig. to calm your nerves. If one in the group smokes and refuses to go to a place where he can't then the rest of the group he is with go where he can. If your city is in the middle of the state and it's a long drive to go elsewhere it may not be much of a problem but in Cincinnati, all you have to do is cross the river to be in KY.
I was in one of Cincinnati's larger rooms with 32 tables last night, Friday, and at 9:30 PM there were six tables in use on.

Dick
 
NoBull9 said:
I've worked in the billiards industrie for the last 19 years and this is the worst I've seen it.And the future doesn't look very good.


What do you do in the "industrie"?
 
NoBull9 said:
I've worked in the billiards industrie for the last 19 years and this is the worst I've seen it.And the future doesn't look very good.

I see from your profile that you may be from Atlanta.

Atlanta is one of the few regions in the country where one can acquire a very nice home for a decent price. So that is for sure a good thing. Maybe pool rooms will do well in Georgia, more so than elsewhere in the country.

My take on all of this is very similar to Fatboy and Rhncue. The demand for oil is killing our economy. I am also SHOCKED to see the amount of gas guzzlers on the road. Why anyone would want to buy an SUV or a truck and be forced to spend $100 or more to fill up the tanks is beyond me.

Green technologies is where Americans in particular should be focused, in an effort to get rid of our dependence on oil. In D.C. area, "green" is a buzz word today, getting a lot of press. This is the direction that the country should be moving in.

Pool does not have any allure, like the Masters golf tournament. If only I could bottle the excitement I receive from pool and share it with others.

I used to think pool was a cheap high when I was younger. I could spend hours in my neighborhood pool room and enjoy myself for less than 20 bucks. Today, pool rooms cannot afford to have people come to their facilities and spend less than 20 bucks. The overhead is too high.

Professional pool is in a bad way. The UPA and WPBA each have their own set of problems in the year 2008, which ain't good.

If I didn't have to work 24/7, I believe I could effect a change for the better in American pool. Maybe someday I will realize my dream. Until then, I owe, owe, owe, and it's off to work I go. :p

JAM
 
Its not all bad

There is no doubt the economy is effecting the billiards industry... but not all of it is bad. IMO, in a year from now the pool rooms that are left will have figured out a way to be successful, which will be good for both the owners and the customers. As mentioned in other posts in this thread, the days of the pool rooms thriving during tough economic times are over. People have less and less disposable income and are becoming more selective on where they spend it. Pool rooms today have to cater to many different customer tastes in order to keep the doors open. In addition, customer expectations have changed significantly in the recent past. People expect better, healthier menu items, HUGE HDTV's (why go to sports bar to watch the game on a 32 inch tube when you have a 42 in Plasma at home!) and exceptional service.

In these trying times, I see opportunity...

-Back2good1
 
JAM said:
I think maybe the billiards industry was already suffering before the economy took a dive. If there was ever a need for a hit movie about pool, though, it is RIGHT NOW! :p

JAM
Great thought JAM. Pool needs something to rekindle the public's interest.

James
 
I sale the equipment,Brunswick,Vitalie,Connelly,Video games,Pinballs,Card tables,most everything you can think of for a game room.Started off as a table mechanic bad knee's put me in the office handleing sales.
Jam I just purchased a three storie house 4 bed rooms upstairs finished basement two car garage.For $249.000.
 
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