Is the economy affecting the American billiards industry?

How bout this

Most believe there is a need for change to spark interest in the game.

Why not introduce more then one or two games to the public on TV. In golf you can watch One person swing the club and hear cheers in the back ground from another hole. Wow what just happened over there? Then the camara pans to the other green and shows a fantastic putt. keeps things interesting and fun.

In pool we have One pocket, 9 ball, 8 ball, 14:1, 10 Ball, Etc. If you have a major Tournament with all these final games at one time and Move between the matches with cheers in the back ground it becomes more interesting.
people will learn pool has alot of variety.

I for one get a little bored sometimes watching the same match.


Now the next thing I want to address is coin op tables. They limit what games you can play in the Bars. why don't they make a table that will allow cash or coin. This way you could pay $7 for a hour play time (example) or $1.25 per game. The 7 dollars would free up the balls for an hour so you could play any game you like. Give you a 10 min. warning so you could add money as needed to finish you game.

Just a thought. I really believe these things could help the game by allowing game variety in the bars.

My 2 cents
 
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JAM said:
In these tough economic times, everyone has to tighten up their purse strings and decide what to spend their hard-earned monies on.

Escalade, a maker of sports and office equipment, said its sales of billiard tables to Sears and Roebucks fell in the first quarter of 2008 about 60 percent below where they had been a year ago.

Now, this could mean that smart folk are purchasing their equipment from Diamond, Brunswick, Olhausen, Gabriel, and the other leading billiard table manufacturers. ;)

According to an article in the Evansville Press, which is Escalade's home base: During the past decade, Escalade Sports has grown rapidly, largely by buying other makers of sports products. They have included the businesses behind the Mosconi, Mizerak and Murrey brands of billiards tables; the Goalrilla and Goaliath brands of basketball goals; and the Trophy Ridge brand of archery accessories. To stay apace of the competition, Escalade has imported some products from China, along with making others in the United States and Mexico.

With decades-old pool rooms closing their doors for good and now the billiards industry movers and shakers cutting back on their product line, it does not look good for American pool.

Tournaments are already happening overseas more frequently today, as sponsors are more forthcoming elsewhere than the United States, a country which used to be the main hub for professional pool players around the world. Remember the Filipino Invasion?

Production cues and cases are already more popular in the United States than American custom-made cues and cases because of cost to the consumer. As most know, the majority of pool players in America are social shooters. Whereas, our fine American custom-made cases and cues do sell just fine overseas. Ask Black Boar cues, as an example.

Maybe this Escalade is just another economic hiccup, but to me it is a sign of the times that at least American pool remains in a slump and is not on the comeback trail. The new-and-improved BCA may step up to the plate, but I remain in a wait-and-see mode for that to happen, at least as it pertains to professional pool.

I think maybe the billiards industry was already suffering before the economy took a dive. If there was ever a need for a hit movie about pool, though, it is RIGHT NOW! :p

JAM
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What I am seeing as a retailer is what you have outlined above and about import equipment. However, sales of McDermott cues that are made in the USA are still very strong in my area Washington State. I think this is due to the excellent warranty they offer on their products.

In addition, many players are also now opting to have older cues refinished instead of buying new cues. I have been swamped with refinish work, building new shafts, and other repairs. I think long term however, that you are certainly right a new hit Movie may help kick start things. But long term for room owners, billiards retailers, and other involved in this industry, we all must adapt and for those can't understand this their days are certainly numbered.

Have a good day Jam!!!!!
 
Three different points.

My family is involved in three businesses.

1.) Billiard Parlor
General public has less money to spend on entertainment. We are lucky we are doing well here.
2.) Billiard Supply store.
We are doing well with cues and dart supplies, but pool table sales are off by 70% from a peak several years ago. We are having a major increase in service since the "Big Stores" won't service the products they sell. That is helping us somewhat.
3.) Jewelry store
Gold Price is about triple what it was 3 years ago. Gold sales are WAY DOWN. Diamond sales are doing fine and labor to repair stuff is down slightly.

We are involved in 3 business that surely are not a necessity to live. They are all luxury/ entertainment industries. These are the first to suffer in an economic downturn. The mortgage crisis also has a direct relation to pool table sales since so many people get a pool table when they buy a new house.

Very few industries are recession proof.
 
The problem that is affecting the U S economy is that the U S A for the past decades wanted every nation or country to have the same lifestyle and standard of living as we do. Guess what? A lot of those countries are doing that and are now competing for the same resources that we are. This leads to supply and demand. We are now getting what we wished and fought for and are now paying for.

As the old saying goes: "Don't wish for something because you may get it."
 
rhncue said:
There are a number of varying circumstances that have completely ruined the pool scene in Southwest Ohio. 10 years ago there were at least 20 rooms in Cincinnati and I am willing to bet there will be no more than 3 within a year. I've heard of four more that will probably be closing in the next month or so. The economy is the biggest factor but there are many others also. People only have so much money for recreation and with energy and food prices soaring well above inflation rates there is little money left. Over the years there have been many other hits. Pool tables take up a lot of room to play on and since rental property is rented by the square foot that makes the overhead high. There has been no, good, new movies in years to perk the interest of new players. The real start of the downfall in the Cincinnati area started with the Ohio lottery. Some of the extra entertainment money was siphoned off for that. Then along came the gambling boats. There went another chunk of change. Next came the Texas Hold-um craze where every body could invest 20 or 30 dollars and get a fist full of chips to gamble with so that they could feel like old cowboys or some such and latest is the new law in Ohio where a person can't smoke in a public place. That was the coup d grace for pool in Cincinnati. Business dropped by 50% the day that law went into affect. They say only around 30% of people smoke but I know that a larger amount of pool players do. Pool being a mental game as much as a physical one so is really affected by not smoking if you are used to a cig. to calm your nerves. If one in the group smokes and refuses to go to a place where he can't then the rest of the group he is with go where he can. If your city is in the middle of the state and it's a long drive to go elsewhere it may not be much of a problem but in Cincinnati, all you have to do is cross the river to be in KY.
I was in one of Cincinnati's larger rooms with 32 tables last night, Friday, and at 9:30 PM there were six tables in use on.

Dick
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That sucks but is kinda what happened to pool in LA, perhaps not as bad but pool in LA aint what it was.


In a nut shell there is just more things to do these days-like hang out online. There are 200 channels on TV, TIVO, DVD's, video games that didnt compete with pool 50 years ago. I believe alot of people played pool because it was there, Speaking for myself-I went and looked for pool, I liked the feeling of improving, I love the rush of making a hard shot when it counts, but thats me, I dont get that rush from TV. I'm only online so much because of my back, when I'm well I will be playing-but I'm the exception as most people on AZ are.
 
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Very few industries create wealth and the vast majority of them simply move the weath around. For a truly succesful and sustainable economy in a large developed country the proportion between those two types of industries has to remain within certain tolerances. In USA you now have a bigger proportion doing the latter than ever before. There is a point at which that proportion becomes unsustainable and something has to give. The present situation of the economy is significantly contributed to by that simple underlying reality.

Blaming the cost of gas for everything is a gross over simplification and is also akin to sticking your head in the sand....twice! Blaming gas prices might throw up a convenient opportunity to blame Johnny Foreigner for all the ills but it's an illusion. In the first place your gas is no more expensive now in real terms than it was 40 years ago and in the second place, with a few exceptions, the motorist and trucker in USA still has just about the cheapest gas in the entire world. Think about it. If the USA economy could be crippled solely by having just about cheapest gas in the world it's surely obvious that it cannot have been quite as robust as it was thought to be to begin with.

As far as the cue sports industry worldwide is concerned it has been on an unrelenting downward spiral for several decades, only partly slowed down by some increased interest in cue sports in the heavily populated areas of Asia. The nature of modern life and the choices open to individuals for allocation of their leisure time is such that there is no real prospect of that trend ever being reversed. The very best that can be realistically hoped for is a slowing down of the rate of decline. That may well include survival of only the very leanest and fittest of the businesses in each branch of the industry.

In respect of pool rooms worldwide I would share the view of an earlier poster that this outcome is not necessarily a bad thing when dispassionately viewed as a whole rather than from the understandable perspective of individual room owners and other businesses, who we would all sympathise with.

There will always be a place for sentimentality and fond rememberances of times of yore, but they ain't ever-a-coming-back.
 
rhncue said:
There are a number of varying circumstances that have completely ruined the pool scene in Southwest Ohio. 10 years ago there were at least 20 rooms in Cincinnati and I am willing to bet there will be no more than 3 within a year. I've heard of four more that will probably be closing in the next month or so. The economy is the biggest factor but there are many others also. People only have so much money for recreation and with energy and food prices soaring well above inflation rates there is little money left. Over the years there have been many other hits. Pool tables take up a lot of room to play on and since rental property is rented by the square foot that makes the overhead high. There has been no, good, new movies in years to perk the interest of new players. The real start of the downfall in the Cincinnati area started with the Ohio lottery. Some of the extra entertainment money was siphoned off for that. Then along came the gambling boats. There went another chunk of change. Next came the Texas Hold-um craze where every body could invest 20 or 30 dollars and get a fist full of chips to gamble with so that they could feel like old cowboys or some such and latest is the new law in Ohio where a person can't smoke in a public place. That was the coup d grace for pool in Cincinnati. Business dropped by 50% the day that law went into affect. They say only around 30% of people smoke but I know that a larger amount of pool players do. Pool being a mental game as much as a physical one so is really affected by not smoking if you are used to a cig. to calm your nerves. If one in the group smokes and refuses to go to a place where he can't then the rest of the group he is with go where he can. If your city is in the middle of the state and it's a long drive to go elsewhere it may not be much of a problem but in Cincinnati, all you have to do is cross the river to be in KY.
I was in one of Cincinnati's larger rooms with 32 tables last night, Friday, and at 9:30 PM there were six tables in use on.

Dick
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Every bit of that is straight fact.... Before the boats devestated Cinci, if there wasn't anything to do in Columbus all it took was one call to Michael's to get guranteed $500-1000 action with 10-12 different customers. Michaels back then didn't have as many $10,000+ sets played there as some others in the country, but I will guarantee that there were more $500-$5000 sets played there on a weekly basis than any room in the country for a 4-5 year period. Within 5-6 months you couldn't hardly find anyone that had enough money left to play a $50 set!

A proposed casino near Wilmington (between Columbus and Cinci) will be on the ballot this fall and their advertising is much better this time than it was on past casinos bills. Its' so good I am going to say that it's a lock it passes this time..... If it does pass, poolrooms and bars across the entire southern half of the state will be ghost towns, not just for action, customers period! Casinos suck.....................

Kirk
 
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Travis Bickle said:
Looks like we're on our way to becoming Mexico or the Philippines, economically and politically. But should that HURT pool?
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just think... if we can become more like a third world country... we might get some of our jobs back... that must be Bush's long term strategy for economic growth...:confused: :mad:

and if we become more like the Philippines we should then produce better pool players as well..:D
 
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softshot said:
just think... if we can become more like a third world country... we might get some of our jobs back... that must be Bush's long term strategy for economic growth...:confused: :mad:

and if we become more like the Philippines we should then produce better pool players as well..:D
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That's so funny that it actually hurts, as there may be a ring of truth in it! :o

JAM
 
memikey said:
Very few industries create wealth and the vast majority of them simply move the weath around. For a truly succesful and sustainable economy in a large developed country the proportion between those two types of industries has to remain within certain tolerances. In USA you now have a bigger proportion doing the latter than ever before. There is a point at which that proportion becomes unsustainable and something has to give. The present situation of the economy is significantly contributed to by that simple underlying reality.

Blaming the cost of gas for everything is a gross over simplification and is also akin to sticking your head in the sand....twice! Blaming gas prices might throw up a convenient opportunity to blame Johnny Foreigner for all the ills but it's an illusion. In the first place your gas is no more expensive now in real terms than it was 40 years ago and in the second place, with a few exceptions, the motorist and trucker in USA still has just about the cheapest gas in the entire world. Think about it. If the USA economy could be crippled solely by having just about cheapest gas in the world it's surely obvious that it cannot have been quite as robust as it was thought to be to begin with.

As far as the cue sports industry worldwide is concerned it has been on an unrelenting downward spiral for several decades, only partly slowed down by some increased interest in cue sports in the heavily populated areas of Asia. The nature of modern life and the choices open to individuals for allocation of their leisure time is such that there is no real prospect of that trend ever being reversed. The very best that can be realistically hoped for is a slowing down of the rate of decline. That may well include survival of only the very leanest and fittest of the businesses in each branch of the industry.

In respect of pool rooms worldwide I would share the view of an earlier poster that this outcome is not necessarily a bad thing when dispassionately viewed as a whole rather than from the understandable perspective of individual room owners and other businesses, who we would all sympathise with.

There will always be a place for sentimentality and fond rememberances of times of yore, but they ain't ever-a-coming-back.
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I don't think they are coming back either. Gone andd forever.

We don't have room owners anymore who have a passion for the game. Their passion is selling booze and most can't see 5 feet past the bar area that sells it. Pool is simply a way to keep many there to buy the booze. Those who play and don't drink are referred to as a "bunch of ice water drinking SOB's".

IMO, Pro Pool to survive or flourish at this point would have to get extremely lucky. Who in this great big USA is going to step up and invest big $$$$ for those guys to compete for. It just ain't happening and few show any intrest in it happening.

I agree, it ain't ever-a-coming-back.
 
I see a trend happening. The pool rooms are closing because of smoking bans and a rising cost of living. We see a big upswing in table sales because of this. People are staying home and playing as opposed to going out and spending money on table time and drinks.

On my end of the business, I have never seen the shop so busy. Not just repairs but cue sales also. I haven't been able to build a batch of cues since Thanksgiving because the repairs will not let up. I usually see a rise in the repairs after Christmas but it tapers down after March. This year, I see no light at the end of the tunnel.
 
ratcues said:
I see a trend happening. The pool rooms are closing because of smoking bans and a rising cost of living. We see a big upswing in table sales because of this. People are staying home and playing as opposed to going out and spending money on table time and drinks.

On my end of the business, I have never seen the shop so busy. Not just repairs but cue sales also. I haven't been able to build a batch of cues since Thanksgiving because the repairs will not let up. I usually see a rise in the repairs after Christmas but it tapers down after March. This year, I see no light at the end of the tunnel.
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That is great news. This emphasizes the fact that there are MANY players who are actively engaged in the practice of pool. Even though the majority of them are probably recreational shooters, that is still a good thing. :)

Professional pool needs to somehow get involved in the picture. If you go to a local league in my area, I can guarantee you that 99 percent of them have never heard of Earl Strickland or Shane Van Boening, or even Efren Reyes for that matter. :o

There's a pool room in Frederick, Maryland, that is packed 24/7 because of the leagues. This is where pool is happening in the States, the league players, social shooters, and bar bangers. In fact, when I was a recreational shooter, I enjoyed pool much, much, much more than I do today. :eek:

JAM
 
Jam, I also think that pool needs a "good" movie to come out or maybe something like "Shooting Pool with the Stars," as cheesy as that would be.

One problem with some of the movies that come out is the story line stinks and the actual game is sensationalized. Take Pool Hall Junkies for example. On a money game, would you be trying a low percentage bank shot if you could shoot it straight in to win? I doubt it. Make it about the story. "The Rifleman" book would translate great into a movie.
 
ratcues said:
Jam, I also think that pool needs a "good" movie to come out or maybe something like "Shooting Pool with the Stars," as cheesy as that would be.

One problem with some of the movies that come out is the story line stinks and the actual game is sensationalized. Take Pool Hall Junkies for example. On a money game, would you be trying a low percentage bank shot if you could shoot it straight in to win? I doubt it. Make it about the story. "The Rifleman" book would translate great into a movie.
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Great idea Rat, what happen to the movie w/ Jennifer Barretta??
 
This just in...

Brunswick Corporation -- http://www.brunswick.com/brands/billiards/index.php -- first quarter profits drop a whopping 71 percent.

For the period ended March 29, net income dropped to $13.3 million, or 15 cents per share, compared with $45.6 million, or 50 cents per share, in the corresponding period a year ago.

Brunswick claims this is due to the drop in demand for boats because of the economy and gas prices.

Maybe folks will begin to buy pool tables, stay home and play pool, if they can't ride around in their gas-guzzling boats. :p

JAM
 
JAM said:
Brunswick Corporation -- http://www.brunswick.com/brands/billiards/index.php -- first quarter profits drop a whopping 71 percent.

For the period ended March 29, net income dropped to $13.3 million, or 15 cents per share, compared with $45.6 million, or 50 cents per share, in the corresponding period a year ago.

Brunswick claims this is due to the drop in demand for boats because of the economy and gas prices.

Maybe folks will begin to buy pool tables, stay home and play pool, if they can't ride around in their gas-guzzling boats. :p

JAM
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I do believe a big part of that is Diamond tables seem to be going in everywhere...homes included. Johnnyt
Nevermind...I see now that's for all Brunswick poducts.
 
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JAM said:
Brunswick Corporation -- http://www.brunswick.com/brands/billiards/index.php -- first quarter profits drop a whopping 71 percent.

For the period ended March 29, net income dropped to $13.3 million, or 15 cents per share, compared with $45.6 million, or 50 cents per share, in the corresponding period a year ago.

Brunswick claims this is due to the drop in demand for boats because of the economy and gas prices.

Maybe folks will begin to buy pool tables, stay home and play pool, if they can't ride around in their gas-guzzling boats. :p

JAM
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JAM,
Brunswick's Annual Report is available here: http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/97/97828/reports/ar07/2007_complete.pdf
I wouldn't shed too many tears for them.
Combined Net Sales were actually up in '07 (approaching $6,000,000,000) over '06. Part (if not most) of the decline on the billiards side of the company was related to factory relocation (even Brunswick is going to Mexico for cheaper labor, but alas).
I know some of the top brass on the bowling/billiards side (which represents but a small part of the overall ventures) of the company, . A better group of execs you'll search long and hard to find.
 
JAM said:
Maybe folks will begin to buy pool tables, stay home and play pool, if they can't ride around in their gas-guzzling boats. :p

JAM
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Sounds like me... I just bought my first table... been playin' since ~1960 so it's about time, doncha think? :rolleyes: Have two boats... neither one of which guzzles gas. But I do drive an F-150 4WD which does. :rolleyes:
 
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