Is the IPT for real or isn't it?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Cameron Smith said:
The public doesn't care yet. If you put Earl Strickland on talk shows people aren't going to care who he is. If you say that this tour will be paying a million in prize money that won't impress anyone, simply because a lot of people think that pro pool tournaments are already playing for this. You need to have the show on television first.

This is just like any television show. If before the first season of survivor, they had the entire cast on a talk show nobody would have cared. They would all be just a bunch people taking part in some strange reality show.

Wait for it to fail before you bury it. And don't take the IPT as a slight to your very existence.
Interesting theory. Spend no money, do no advertising, wait for the public to discover your product themselves to increase public awareness and you will be a success. You may be on to something, I think you have redefined the business of marketing.
 
I think right now they (The IPT) are getting all their ducks in a row.

Who, in their right mind (or left) would have thought it would have gone this far? Remember the other guy, or group, that was going to have a million dollar pool payout? That sure didn't last long. Whatever happened to him (them)?

There is still a lot of work to be done before the first tournament gets underway. And now there are only 90 days left. And besides the 25 qualifiers and this tournament they also have to worry about setting up the next tournaments. None of that gets done by just talking about it.

I suspect that as we get closer to July there will be more and more coverage. Right now I doubt that pool lends itself to live coverage. It would have to be a completely different format. Showing highlights from several tables like golf jumps from hole to hole.

I think what the UPA has done with their televising of the Championship match is what we can expect in the future except the quick replays of the racks will jump around to several tables. Look at how Charlie was able to showcase his UPA players. Get their faces on TV. That is what will get people to be attracted to pool. And that will be the format of the IPT. Charlie was just able to get a jump on the IPT. But the really great part about it is how will the networks like this format? If they think it's good then they will be glad to get on board with the IPT. So Charlie's tournament was not only good for himself and pool but also for the IPT.

The IPT can now say, see how great that was, well our tournament will be bigger, with better players, a bigger payout, and will attract a greater audiance.

Yep, Charlie did good. And I can see the whole pool world being at a higher plateu come this July.

Jake
 
Nick B said:
Like I said in my last e-mail.


KT must be there in 2 years and my employer has nothing to do with it and hell yes. Post Up.

Nick

Dude, you are the most daft person on the board right now. You PM me to rant about comments I make about your comments and propose a bet. I tell you that I'll take your bet with a few changes, (your employer having nothing to do with it) and you don't reply for two months.

Then you PM me again to crow when you think the IPT is crumbling due to the payment issue. Once again I ask you to bet and remind you that you never answered the last PM. Now you have done it again.

In my part of the world whenever someone barks and backs off they are acting like a stone cold nit. Don't be a nit. By the time you finally get the gonads to bet the tour will be two years old with Kevin at the helm.

John
 
Cameron Smith said:
Im still in a wait and see mode. Every new tour has a potential for failiure and we have to realize that. Also there are certain things that do not happen overnight. When you pitch a show idea to networks, you don't sign the contract on wednesday and then air it next month. Contracts need to be drawn up, if there are a number of networks that interested there are offers that need to be considered.

That being said I did not expect getting a network interested in the show to be easy. Essentially KT is looking for someone who is willing to take a chance.

If you are all expecting front page news stories, road side billboards, advertisments on every station and an endorsement by God, its not going to happen. Not yet anyways. I still don't see poker tournaments in the Sports section, and advertising for poker on tv is sparse (at least in Canada).

The only way everyone would have been happy is if, KT announced the tour in August and had the first tournament in September, and had the second in October with live coverage. All somewhat unrealistic.


That is so true. The guy who invented the World Poker Tour shopped it around to several networks for a few years before the Travel Channel picked it up. The rest is history as they say. And poker was shown on ESPN for 20 years before that.

The truth is that advertising for sporting events is usually sparse anyway. I was just in Houston and I saw a few billboards (maybe just one) advertising a golf tournament coming up. While I was there a pro tennis event was apparently happening and I only heard about it briefly from someone else.

There is very little that makes it into the collective conscious these days that is not the result of massive and ongoing advertising and product placement. Americans are too distracted to pay attention to anything for very long.

Poker didn't even show up on my personal radar until I watched Rounders. That's when I started watching the WPT.

There are people here who have zero idea what it takes to get a product to market. Even with the best resources it is not possible to snap one's fingers and have a product like this ready for sale in just a few months. Sure, if you want to have a lousy product then you can rush it and throw up something. I predict that once the formula is right you will be flooded with IPT matches and Gatorade will be a sponsor. :-)

Anyways - it's Sunday morning and I have better things to do than talk about the IPT.

John
 
Good points John,
It's hard enough to get one product to market, and over the last few months the IPT has been working on cloth, balls, tables, racks, DVD's, setting up qualifiers, doing venue deals for the major events, overseeing TV show production, trying to set up worldwide broadcasting deals.

It's a heck of a big bite to chew on, let alone digest. What I can see is that the IPT is making forward steps, maybe not as quick as people think it should happen, but it's a mighty mountain to ascend.

It's certainly not the time for a major marketing / advertising blitz. That has to correspond with broadcasting. I share the hope that a good broadcasting deal is settled / announced soon.

Success on TV can supercharge the IPT, but if the response is mediocre then it will have to keep battling along, one step at a time, as it fulfills the ambitions of an enormous business plan for a relatively new company.
 
Nostroke said:
They don't seem to be doing much hiring either based on the same 'career opportuinities' listed on their site forever.


* Administrative Assistant
* Customer Service Manager
* Event Planner
* ASP Programmer
* Public Relations/Promotions
* Sales Manager
* Web Master
* Internet Marketing Expert
* Executive Secretary
* Customer Service
* Computer/Info Systems - Junior .Net Developer
* Computer/Info Systems - Systems/Network Administrator
* Computer/Info Systems - DBA

They wouldn't just be for show i hope.

Well, I know for sure they hired a Sales Manager. Maybe they haven't hired the Web Master yet to update their site?
 
Colin Colenso said:
Good points John,
It's hard enough to get one product to market, and over the last few months the IPT has been working on cloth, balls, tables, racks, DVD's, setting up qualifiers, doing venue deals for the major events, overseeing TV show production, trying to set up worldwide broadcasting deals.

It's a heck of a big bite to chew on, let alone digest. What I can see is that the IPT is making forward steps, maybe not as quick as people think it should happen, but it's a mighty mountain to ascend.

It's certainly not the time for a major marketing / advertising blitz. That has to correspond with broadcasting. I share the hope that a good broadcasting deal is settled / announced soon.

Success on TV can supercharge the IPT, but if the response is mediocre then it will have to keep battling along, one step at a time, as it fulfills the ambitions of an enormous business plan for a relatively new company.

I think I have to agree with all of you. Even with the most optimistic projection this thing may/will be years away from any real visible success if at all. But if they have to shop around the product for who knows how long, maybe years as John said, while at the same time supporting a multi million dollar tour, covering all expenses and production costs with no return. Based on how things initial go, how long are they willing to do it, that's really the million dollar question.

I don't think anyone thinks this thing can be done over night and that's the problem. They, (the IPT), don't seem to be wanting to take it a step at a time, their plans are so overly ambitious that they may sink themselves before they get started. It also seems there is a dependence for everything to work perfectly because all the ingredients are reliant on each other for the parts to fall into place. In other words if any one part fails the whole plan can fail like a mission impossible plot..
 
Last edited:
You seem to have selective memory

Lets review.
My conditions were as follows:
KT & the IPT would deliver on there promises (see KT's speech) and be up and running in 2 years time from the first tournament (July 2006).

I lose I come to your local and we play for the $. I win we are square. I lose I hand over the money.

You lose same thing and you visit me.

Instead you rant about big business and how nobodies hands are clean. I believe this whole thing is a nasty pyramid scheme that will not feed it's self. Under most circumstances I would not care but I feel they will crush current crop of events to achieve their agenda.
Exhibit 1. Date conflict with US Open.


Sounds simple. Now shut up and post up. How much? Bark Bark.


Nick "To daft to back down" B

onepocketchump said:
Dude, you are the most daft person on the board right now. You PM me to rant about comments I make about your comments and propose a bet. I tell you that I'll take your bet with a few changes, (your employer having nothing to do with it) and you don't reply for two months.

Then you PM me again to crow when you think the IPT is crumbling due to the payment issue. Once again I ask you to bet and remind you that you never answered the last PM. Now you have done it again.

In my part of the world whenever someone barks and backs off they are acting like a stone cold nit. Don't be a nit. By the time you finally get the gonads to bet the tour will be two years old with Kevin at the helm.

John
 
macguy said:
I think I have to agree with all of you. Even with the most optimistic projection this thing may/will be years away from any real visible success if at all. But if they have to shop around the product for who knows how long, maybe years as John said, while at the same time supporting a multi million dollar tour, covering all expenses and production costs with no return. Based on how things initial go, how long are they willing to do it, that's really the million dollar question.

I don't think anyone thinks this thing can be done over night and that's the problem. They, (the IPT), don't seem to be wanting to take it a step at a time, their plans are so overly ambitious that they may sink themselves before they get started. It also seems there is a dependence for everything to work perfectly because all the ingredients are reliant on each other for the parts to fall into place. In other words if any one part fails the whole plan can fail like a mission impossible plot..

I don't disagree with this. What I think though is that KT has really committed many millions to this venture and if it flops then so what?

Let me put this into perspective;

When I was running Instroke I could afford to spend $10-20,000 at any given time just to try something. In fact, I spent $10,000 on software that really didn't work for my needs and after being told I would need to spend another $10,000 to buy the add-ons and support packages I just wrote the 10gs off as a loss and continued on down the path.

One of my friends who has extensive real estate holdings keeps about $200,000 throw away money for interesting projects that come along. This includes loaning money to friends without any form of security. He told once that he probably only gets back about 50% of the money he loans but he doesn't worry about it because he is busy making much more than that and the friendship is more important. Some people might see him as a sucker. I see him as a triple smart human being who invests his capital wisely in real estate and business AND in his fellow humans. Ingvar Kamprad, the founder of IKEA, said that "profit equals resources". Meaning that in order to be in a position to do good you need to make profits to do so.

Let's assume for just a moment that Kevin Trudeau sold just one million copies of his book at an average of $20 a copy. I would bet all told that there is not $10 in cost of goods in that book and this includes all the advertising and logistics surrounding the sale. This leaves 10 million in clear profit to play with. And that's just on the book. Not to mention the website's subscriber base and sales of related alternative health care products.

Also, money attracts money. Since we can't see behind the scenes, we don't know if a bank is financing any part of this venture, whether Kevin has partners, investors or exactly how it is structured.

Right now - all we can go on is that Kevin has produced two successful events. Successful in terms of slick and elegant production values, talent depth and character and a general feeling of exuberance from the participants.

Kelly Fisher told me that when she was on the way home from the KOH tournament she truly felt like a professional player for the first time in her career. What she meant was that the atmosphere, the way they were treated and Kevin's outline made her feel like her efforts to become one of the world's best were being rewarded.

I hope the IPT succeeds because the trickle down will be more action for all other tiers of the game. Won't it be cool when the local tire company kicks in $20,000 added for a local tournament? Because the owner sees pool players getting $200,000 paydays and he wants to be in on the action...

It doesn't cost a thing to be positively speculative.

John
 
Nick B said:
Lets review.
My conditions were as follows:
KT & the IPT would deliver on there promises (see KT's speech) and be up and running in 2 years time from the first tournament (July 2006).

I lose I come to your local and we play for the $. I win we are square. I lose I hand over the money.

You lose same thing and you visit me.

Instead you rant about big business and how nobodies hands are clean. I believe this whole thing is a nasty pyramid scheme that will not feed it's self. Under most circumstances I would not care but I feel they will crush current crop of events to achieve their agenda.
Exhibit 1. Date conflict with US Open.


Sounds simple. Now shut up and post up. How much? Bark Bark.


Nick "To daft to back down" B

I don't know why I bother. Way back in March I told you that I would bet you as long as there was no condition that Kevin still be involved with the IPT on a personal basis two years in the future. One of your "crystal ball" predictions was that Kevin would leave the IPT. Kevin has many business interests and the only thing that matters is whether he creates a viable tour and not whether he is personally involved in it.

You didn't respond.

Again - after you came back to say 'aha, see that Kevin is a snake' I reminded you of the wager and asked you again. Once again you twisted things around and never responded.

Just don't bother PM'ing me anymore. If you want to bark at me to gamble then put your conditions out here on the forum so everyone can see them. I will take your bet as I said I would under the ONE condition that I changed.

Alternatively, just show up anywhere I happen to be and you and I can play. It won't settle anything vis-a-vis the IPT but it will be fun.

John
 
Also, there is the perception equals reality concept. If the IPT were to never really materialize but Kevin were to get the footage of the matches so far played on TV constantly then it would still be a bonus to the pool world as more pool on TV encourages more pool played in general. More people playing pool means more people who will join leagues, buy cues, and support the billiard industry. Especially when they are playing a game that more people understand.

John
 
rackmsuckr said:
Well, I know for sure they hired a Sales Manager. Maybe they haven't hired the Web Master yet to update their site?
They're probably leaving every position up so they can cull out bad eggs if need be....:D
 
onepocketchump said:
I don't disagree with this. What I think though is that KT has really committed many millions to this venture and if it flops then so what?

Let me put this into perspective;

When I was running Instroke I could afford to spend $10-20,000 at any given time just to try something. In fact, I spent $10,000 on software that really didn't work for my needs and after being told I would need to spend another $10,000 to buy the add-ons and support packages I just wrote the 10gs off as a loss and continued on down the path.

One of my friends who has extensive real estate holdings keeps about $200,000 throw away money for interesting projects that come along. This includes loaning money to friends without any form of security. He told once that he probably only gets back about 50% of the money he loans but he doesn't worry about it because he is busy making much more than that and the friendship is more important. Some people might see him as a sucker. I see him as a triple smart human being who invests his capital wisely in real estate and business AND in his fellow humans. Ingvar Kamprad, the founder of IKEA, said that "profit equals resources". Meaning that in order to be in a position to do good you need to make profits to do so.

Let's assume for just a moment that Kevin Trudeau sold just one million copies of his book at an average of $20 a copy. I would bet all told that there is not $10 in cost of goods in that book and this includes all the advertising and logistics surrounding the sale. This leaves 10 million in clear profit to play with. And that's just on the book. Not to mention the website's subscriber base and sales of related alternative health care products.

Also, money attracts money. Since we can't see behind the scenes, we don't know if a bank is financing any part of this venture, whether Kevin has partners, investors or exactly how it is structured.

Right now - all we can go on is that Kevin has produced two successful events. Successful in terms of slick and elegant production values, talent depth and character and a general feeling of exuberance from the participants.

Kelly Fisher told me that when she was on the way home from the KOH tournament she truly felt like a professional player for the first time in her career. What she meant was that the atmosphere, the way they were treated and Kevin's outline made her feel like her efforts to become one of the world's best were being rewarded.

I hope the IPT succeeds because the trickle down will be more action for all other tiers of the game. Won't it be cool when the local tire company kicks in $20,000 added for a local tournament? Because the owner sees pool players getting $200,000 paydays and he wants to be in on the action...

It doesn't cost a thing to be positively speculative.

John

As far as Natural cures goes he does have a partner. Kevin is not the brains behind Natural cures it wasn't even his idea he is just the front man and pitch man and who knows what percent he actually realizes from the company regardless what he says, take anything he says with a grain of salt. Now that the books sales are all but over and my guess is Kevin is probably on his own with the IPT project he has dreamed up, (that's a scary thought), no one knows how far he is willing to, or even if he is capable of, covering this huge commitment and costs.

I really believe Kevin thinks he is going to be the next Don King of sports but if history repeats itself he will run it into the ground through his own incompetence as he has done in the past. He likes to say he has a history of building successful companies, he actually has a history of going broke. I swear I bet the guy could pass a lie detector test, he truly seems delusional, just listen to him. I really hope the pool players get as much of his money in their pockets as they can before his brain spins off is another direction and he leaves them hanging.
 
Last edited:
posted by onepocketchump.....

Kelly Fisher told me that when she was on the way home from the KOH tournament she truly felt like a professional player for the first time in her career. What she meant was that the atmosphere, the way they were treated and Kevin's outline made her feel like her efforts to become one of the world's best were being rewarded.

I can understand the feeling she has...I've been to some pro tourneys that were so badly run that you couldn't help but think how outsiders were looking at the industry of pool...the feeling I was getting from others that pro pool must be a small Mickey Mouse operation....
 
KT is in.

Oh no...as stated in March. Your prince (KT) has to be there. Otherwise he can pull and the charred remains can claim that he was running his mouth and wasn't speaking in an official capacity. What ever you want but KT is in. Check you your mail as stated in March KT in. My original proposition stated as such and is so now.

Otherwise you can conveniently have your way out. Post Up?

Nick


onepocketchump said:
I don't know why I bother. Way back in March I told you that I would bet you as long as there was no condition that Kevin still be involved with the IPT on a personal basis two years in the future. One of your "crystal ball" predictions was that Kevin would leave the IPT. Kevin has many business interests and the only thing that matters is whether he creates a viable tour and not whether he is personally involved in it.

You didn't respond.

Again - after you came back to say 'aha, see that Kevin is a snake' I reminded you of the wager and asked you again. Once again you twisted things around and never responded.

Just don't bother PM'ing me anymore. If you want to bark at me to gamble then put your conditions out here on the forum so everyone can see them. I will take your bet as I said I would under the ONE condition that I changed.

Alternatively, just show up anywhere I happen to be and you and I can play. It won't settle anything vis-a-vis the IPT but it will be fun.

John
 
onepocketchump said:
More people playing pool means more people who will join leagues, buy cues, and support the billiard industry. Especially when they are playing a game that more people understand.

John

John,

I truly hope one day we can see pool advertisement on major magazines.

I want to see a pool player going into a bank, apply for a credit and proudly say "I play pool for a living."

I really hope that the IPT will bring us closer to this dream.

Richard
 
Last edited:
macguy said:
Interesting theory. Spend no money, do no advertising, wait for the public to discover your product themselves to increase public awareness and you will be a success. You may be on to something, I think you have redefined the business of marketing.

Wow, did you ever miss my point. I thought I was quite clear.

I did not say anything about no advertising at all. I said putting pool players on talk shows, doing appearances isn't going to do anything. There is no product to speak of right now.

Yes, advertise the event so that people will go to it. But at the end of the day this just another sporting event, and although it is a huge event for us it matters very little to the rest of the world. TV appearances will happen AFTER the event when there is a winner. Currently, in the publics eyes there are no stars of pool. So who goes on the talk show, Alex? Mika? Earl? Nobody cares yet.

I expect the major PR would happen when the televised product is to be introduced.

On a side note, I was looking at the IPT website and I noticed at the botton "The International Pool Tour, or IPT, is the world leader in professional pocket billiards". I laughed at this because there hasn't even been an actual tour stop yet, among other reasons.
 
Cameron Smith said:
Wow, did you ever miss my point. I thought I was quite clear.

I did not say anything about no advertising at all. I said putting pool players on talk shows, doing appearances isn't going to do anything. There is no product to speak of right now.

Yes, advertise the event so that people will go to it. But at the end of the day this just another sporting event, and although it is a huge event for us it matters very little to the rest of the world. TV appearances will happen AFTER the event when there is a winner. Currently, in the publics eyes there are no stars of pool. So who goes on the talk show, Alex? Mika? Earl? Nobody cares yet.

I expect the major PR would happen when the televised product is to be introduced.

On a side note, I was looking at the IPT website and I noticed at the botton "The International Pool Tour, or IPT, is the world leader in professional pocket billiards". I laughed at this because there hasn't even been an actual tour stop yet, among other reasons.


I'm sorry for having been sarcastic but I don't think you are right. The product is not any one particular tournament or player, but the sport itself. That's what I mean when I say a public consciousness. I can see where for example it would be easy for him with his background to do say a mock talk show, with his pool players. Doing some instruction, selling IPT products and DVD's of tournament matches and instruction tapes. Have some of his players there demonstrating different aspects of the game. And go ahead and sell his natural cures books or do spots for the wrinkle creams but put pool on TV.

It would actually to many people be more engaging then just watching a tournament. It would give them an introduction to the sport. They also should be telling the audience to be sure to check out their local billiard establishment and get out there and play pool it's a great family sport. They could do spots for Diamond Tables and cues. Much like some of the programming you see on the Golf Channel. Maybe do an interview with a cue maker and show his shop. The kind of programming that would benefit the sport in general. It would augment the showing of their tournaments. This is either a long term commitment to the sport or it's not and not just a hit and run to get a library of pool footage from a few tournaments that can be sold for years to come.

I also believe it can't be sold like a con as you point out with the quote from the web site. The same with the selling of a tapes, for example, MS playing LJ and billing it a world championship. The pool audience aren't just a bunch of sheep the be sheared, but real fans, and loyal fans that should be treated with respect. A little hype is expected but use discretion and not insult peoples intelligence and absolutely do not lie to people. You either have a product worth selling or you don't, the public isn't stupid.

By the way, has anyone been able to find the S.I quote anywhare in print they have quoted on the web site?
"Watch the entire event that “Sports Illustrated” called the “Best Pressure Performance of 2005”!
 
Last edited:
Nick B said:
Oh no...as stated in March. Your prince (KT) has to be there. Otherwise he can pull and the charred remains can claim that he was running his mouth and wasn't speaking in an official capacity. What ever you want but KT is in. Check you your mail as stated in March KT in. My original proposition stated as such and is so now.

Otherwise you can conveniently have your way out. Post Up?

Nick

There used to be a great pool T-Shirt. It went like this, the first image was of a confident guy witha pool cool and the caption read "see Dick stroke." The next image showed Dick miscuing with the caption "See Dick choke." The next image showed Dick with empty pockets and the caption read, "see Dick broke". Under that was the admonition, "Don't be a Dick!"

Your proposition was that the IPT would not exist in two years, that KT would go to jail or KT would leave the IPT. The only part I had an issue with is the part about KT leaving the IPT. Who cares if he is actively involved in the IPT as long as it is a functioning entity?

Your contention is that KT will fold the IPT within two years, I say he won't. So the bet is REAL SIMPLE. If the IPT is still a functioning entity two years from now and KT does not go to jail(as you put it) then I win, with or without KT involved in it.

Since you are nothing but a corporate flunky working for a company that committed far more atrocities than KT has even dreamed of I can understand that you do not understand the way entrenpenuers work. I will give you a brief education. Most of them have diverse business interests. They very often start companies and turn them over to managers.

So either take away the meaningless part about KT being part of the IPT and we can bet or just admit that you are a nit.

Have a nice day working for a company that routinely supports the trampling of human rights,

John
 
Last edited:
macguy said:
I'm sorry for having been sarcastic but I don't think you are right. The product is not any one particular tournament or player, but the sport itself. That's what I mean when I say a public consciousness. I can see where for example it would be easy for him with his background to do say a mock talk show, with his pool players. Doing some instruction, selling IPT products and DVD's of tournament matches and instruction tapes. Have some of his players there demonstrating different aspects of the game. And go ahead and sell his natural cures books or do spots for the wrinkle creams but put pool on TV.

It would actually to many people be more engaging then just watching a tournament. It would give them an introduction to the sport. They also should be telling the audience to be sure to check out their local billiard establishment and get out there and play pool it's a great family sport. They could do spots for Diamond Tables and cues. Much like some of the programming you see on the Golf Channel. Maybe do an interview with a cue maker and show his shop. The kind of programming that would benefit the sport in general. It would augment the showing of their tournaments. This is either a long term commitment to the sport or it's not and not just a hit and run to get a library of pool footage from a few tournaments that can be sold for years to come.

I also believe it can't be sold like a con as you point out with the quote from the web site. The same with the selling of a tapes, for example, MS playing LJ and billing it a world championship. The pool audience aren't just a bunch of sheep the be sheared, but real fans, and loyal fans that should be treated with respect. A little hype is expected but use discretion and not insult peoples intelligence and absolutely do not lie to people. You either have a product worth selling or you don't, the public isn't stupid.

I guess I am merely concerned about selling this tour to the non players, creating a new fan base to go along with the old one. I just don't think that can happen before the first show is aired. I have always believe where pool has failed in the past is an inability to create new fans, always catering to the old ones. I think it is safe to say that everyone on this forum will watch any pool content that is placed before us. We are similar to malnourished scavengers, we will take what we can get.

But you touch upon a good idea and that is doing some Golf Channel style programming. I think a "lessons from the pros" type of show could do very well. A lot of people would watch that, who wouldn't tune into tournament coverage. Just think of how entertaining a series like that could be considering the characters available in the pool world.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top