Is the Object Ball just a "Mirrored Reflection" of the Cue Ball

[pdcue]

And if a Bank Pool champion from Tennessee says 'put some holdup on that cross side',
I know exactly what he means. That doesn't change the fact that what he means is
actually a touch-of-inside english.

Call me misguided, but wouldn't consistency in terminology tend to improve communication?

Dale

 

[CJ Wiley]

Aren't most of the bank pool champions from Kentucky?

And if a Bank Pool champion from Tennessee says 'put some holdup on that cross side',
I know exactly what he means. That doesn't change the fact that what he means is
actually a touch-of-inside English.

Call me misguided, but wouldn't consistency in terminology tend to improve communication?

Dale

Generally when you say "holdup" it would mean over-cutting the object ball slightly with a high ball. The high ball with transfer low on the object ball, this can be done with TOI, however, it's usually about the type of stroke used to get the "holding" effect.

PS: Aren't most of the bank pool champions from Kentucky?

 

[pdcue]

Generally when you say "holdup" it would mean over-cutting the object ball slightly with a high ball. The high ball with transfer low on the object ball, this can be done with TOI, however, it's usually about the type of stroke used to get the "holding" effect.

PS: Aren't most of the bank pool champions from Kentucky?

A. It was a Hypothetical player from the area of the top Bank player of all time
specifically to avoid a reference to any REAL person.

B. Do you really presume to argue Bank Pool terminology with someone who played
Gary Spaeth when he was 9 years old?

Dale

 

[Mitchxout]

But never more than a rolling ball or stunned ball.

pj
chgo

Stun lengthens as much as draw? How can that be? This game never stops surprising me.

 

[CJ Wiley]

there's many words that mean different things in different parts of the country

A. It was a Hypothetical player from the area of the top Bank player of all time
specifically to avoid a reference to any REAL person.

B. Do you really presume to argue Bank Pool terminology with someone who played
Gary Spaeth when he was 9 years old?

Dale

I don't argue bank terminology, several of my friends are champion bank pool players. TOI and "stunning/holding" aren't the same thing anyway.

John Brumback would be the one to ask about techniques, not necessarily terminology or slang - there's many words that mean different things in different parts of the country.

 

[CJ Wiley]

This game never stops surprising me

Stun lengthens as much as draw? How can that be? This game never stops surprising me.

Are you surprised or stunned? :groucho:

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Stun lengthens as much as draw?

No, a rolling OB lengthens as much as draw on the CB. A stunned OB shortens as much as follow on the CB. And in both cases it only matters when the OB starts very close to the rail.

Draw on the CB can't put "overspin" (more than "rolling follow") on the OB because it can't transfer that much spin - it can only help the OB get rolling a few inches sooner. So it can only affect shots where the OB is within a few inches of the rail and wouldn't otherwise get fully rolling by the time it reaches the rail.

Follow on the CB can only put a tiny amount of draw on the OB (if that) - so little that it can only last an inch or two before it's "rubbed off" by the surface cloth. And even if some of that tiny amount of draw remains on the OB it will usually be rubbed off by the rail. So the affect probably can't be more than if the OB slides (stunned) into the rail.

And in both cases the CB can only transfer even that little amount of follow or draw to the OB if it hits the OB full - so it won't matter at all on cuts.

For these reasons I think it's mostly a mythical technique.

pj
chgo

 

[John Brumback]

No, a rolling OB lengthens as much as draw on the CB. A stunned OB shortens as much as follow on the CB. And in both cases it only matters when the OB starts very close to the rail.

Draw on the CB can't put "overspin" (more than "rolling follow") on the OB because it can't transfer that much spin - it can only help the OB get rolling a few inches sooner. So it can only affect shots where the OB is within a few inches of the rail and wouldn't otherwise get fully rolling by the time it reaches the rail.

Follow on the CB can only put a tiny amount of draw on the OB - so little that it can only last an inch or two before it's "rubbed off" by the surface cloth. And even if some of that tiny amount of draw remains on the OB it will usually be rubbed off by the rail. So the affect probably can't be more than if the OB slides (stunned) into the rail.

And in both cases the CB can only transfer even that little amount of follow or draw to the OB if it hits the OB full - so it won't matter at all on cuts.

For these reasons I think it's mostly a mythical technique.

pj
chgo

LOL John B.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

LOL John B.

I think we'd all be interested in any details you'd care to share, John.

pj
chgo

 

[CJ Wiley]

they have trouble "stunning" their computer cue ball without having to re-boot it

LOL John B.

There's some "video game" pool players on here, John, they have trouble "stunning" their computer cue ball without having to re-boot it.:thud: LoL

"In Pool, we are only able to recognize what we're familiar with" - CJ Wiley

 

[Patrick Johnson]

There's some "video game" pool players on here, John, they have trouble "stunning" their computer cue ball without having to re-boot it.:thud: LoL

"In Pool, we are only able to recognize what we're familiar with" - CJ Wiley

I think everybody here would welcome your and John's participation in some candid and detailed discussion of these things.

Some may even enjoy the drive-by insults, but that won't help their game much, will it?

pj
chgo

 

[CJ Wiley]

Can there really be "good parts and bad parts," or are all parts necessary?

When we don't "own up" to the negativity in ourselves, the negativity will own us. "Own it, or it will own you" - Anonymous

If we are really part of the same whole, then can there really be "good parts and bad parts," or are all parts necessary?

Can we possibly know good without knowing evil, can we know love without knowing fear?
Many of us are so disconnected from this fear that we can only see it's reflection.....through other people. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[John Brumback]

I think we'd all be interested in any details you'd care to share, John.

pj
chgo

Efren doesn't know the best "method" to hit most bank shots either,so don't feel bad:wink: John B.

 

[pdcue]

I don't argue bank terminology, several of my friends are champion bank pool players. TOI and "stunning/holding" aren't the same thing anyway.

John Brumback would be the one to ask about techniques, not necessarily terminology or slang - there's many words that mean different things in different parts of the country.

To once again use my second favorite all time quote from AZB:

"Read much?"

Dale

 

[DTL]

.....................

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Efren doesn't know the best "method" to hit most bank shots either,so don't feel bad:wink: John B.

I'm sure you know volumes more about it than I do, John - pity we won't be seeing any of it here.

pj
chgo

 

[John Brumback]

I'm sure you know volumes more about it than I do, John - pity we won't be seeing any of it here.

pj
chgo

I can show better than I can tell. I don't get into all the science stuff.I'll leave that part up to the non pool players. The best advice I can give for better banking is to do whatever you have to do in order to hold the oball and make the pocket as big as you can.

It's right there in my dvds,just don't be too smart to learn tho. John B.

 

[John Brumback]

Like you, JB wasn't showing disrespect. He's said openly on here (paraphrasing one of his recent post about BHE) "I don't know what you're talking about, I just play pool". Many pros don't know/can't explain how/why, etc. This was very evident on one of the prematch TAR podcast with Bustamante. Was anything PJ wrote not accurate?

That's a great point you brought up. I have often wondered why the pros can't explain all the science crap( oops I mean stuff),and the ones who can't play.....can.I think I'm seeing a pattern here,hint hint wink wink. John B.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I can show better than I can tell. I don't get into all the science stuff.I'll leave that part up to the non pool players. The best advice I can give for better banking is to do whatever you have to do in order to hold the oball and make the pocket as big as you can.

It's right there in my dvds,just don't be too smart to learn tho. John B.

My banking improved the day I bought your dvd - I still use things it taught me, and remember where I got them.

This is a discussion forum, so we're supposed to discuss stuff. If we disagree on some physical technicality it's because I'm trying to contribute helpfully to the information flow here, not trying to criticize or school you.

pj
chgo

 

[John Brumback]

My banking improved the day I bought your dvd - I still use things it taught me, and remember where I got them.

This is a discussion forum, so we're supposed to discuss stuff. If we disagree on some physical technicality it's because I'm trying to contribute helpfully to the information flow here, not trying to criticize or school you.

pj
chgo

Fair enough.All I'm saying is that I have never in my life seen where all that science mumbo jumbo has ever helped one person become a top pool player, have you? If you have I wish you would name him or her please.

IMO most would be way better off to just play and do what the top pool players do and be done with it.

It just seems to me that you would rather argue with what top pool players say than to improve your own game. Am I right or wrong? I've been wrong before. John B.