Jiggle my handle.
Is there magic in the magic rack
- Thread starter one stroke
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If the balls are all frozen without being tapped and without using a gadget, the wing balls probably won't go. If the balls are frozen via "loading" or "stacking", the wing ball is dead.
Nowhere does it say that a player is entitled to a perfect frozen rack of balls and also have a perfect oportunity to pattern rack. Random rack the balls and rack for yourself the best rack you can get with the balls, table, and triangle that you have. No one needs more than this.
Ten tournaments, 1 league, and an additional 400,000 racks: Not an argument or complaint. We got it figured out.
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JC
Coos Cues
I can walk over to my table and rack the balls right now with my wooden diamond rack and if I'm careful enough to make them all tight there's an 80% chance the wing ball will go just like it does with the magic rack. I have proven this over and over again.
JC
double post
Your place must have the best equipment on the planet because it is nearly impossible to get a completely frozen rack without an aid like a magic rack even on brand new equipment, much less sets of balls that have 400,000 racks of mileage on them.
Look at the 9 ball after the break. If it moves without getting kicked, even slightly, it means the rack was loose.
This ^^^^^
The key to the magic rack is being able to get the one on the perfect spot and straight. With a wooden rack you get close most of the time, but not always.
With or without the magic rack, if the balls are perfect(all touching and straight) the wing ball goes for me...unless someone else racks with a wooden rack
Just viewed the "No Conflict" rules, I like them! The random portion and having to spin the rack etc. seems a little overkill and noisy, but it does prevent the racker from pattern rack. Other than that minor point, I hope the rest of the rules or something very similar get adopted universally, it would certainly end a lot of arguments and speed the racking process up.
Scott
Scott
You know, your right. I am making the wrong argument here. Ignore everthing I previously posted.
Everyone can agree that more balls can be made on the break if the balls are frozen, loaded, or stacked.
If you can conclude that a ball pocketed on the break is either slopped in or wired in, then it is not hard to make the leap to "making a ball on the break is nothing special" and should not be rewarded with a special privilege.
The next logical conclusion would be to treat making a ball on the break equal to not making a ball on the break. Shoot after the break. Shoot what you break! (unless you scratch). Now here is a real skill...control the cue-ball and the 1-ball and get a good spread. Reward that!
If you can get this far in the logic, no one will be screaming for the perfect frozen rack of balls anymore and you don't need the special gadget. As a matter of fact, the new gadgets invite pattern racking. Pattern Racking is a huge problem.
Answer: "No Conflict Rules" These rules take every last racking and breaking issue out of a match. Problem solved.
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I agree that your rules present a possible solution to some of the proposed issues surrounding the break, but not necessarily the only solution, or even the best solution. Here are the issues that your rules address, your solution and some other possible solutions:
Pattern Racking
No Conflict Solution: Attempt to truly randomize the rack. I wonder if it's possible to actually manipulate the no conflict method. If those rules spread, I think someone might figure something out.
Other Possible Solutions:
- Provide a set pattern for the entire rack.
- Allow the breaker to pattern rack.
- Allow the non-breaker to pattern rack.
Slug Racks
No Conflict Solution: Rack your own. Works pretty well coupled with the fact that you shoot whether you make a ball or not.
Other Possible Solutions:
- Neutral party racking. Works okay for a final match, but not really practical for an entire tournament.
- Racking mechanism (Sardo, etc.)
- Racking template (Magic Rack, Slug Doctor). They provide consistent results, but promote specialized devices, so it's tough to mandate.
Making a Ball on the Break
No Conflict Solution: Breaker always shoots following the break.
Other Possible Solutions:
- Non-breaker always shoots after the break.
- Shot after the break must be a push.
- Ball in hand after the break.
Packages
No Conflict Solution: Alternate break.
Other Possible Solutions: Decide that it's not a problem, and is actually exciting to do or see. My feeling are mixed on this, because it's only fun when you're not the one in the chair losing.
Golden Break
No Conflict Solution: Spot the ball.
Other Possible Solutions:
- Re-break.
- Restrict it to certain pockets.
- Leave it alone.
You get the idea...
There are a lot of options, so it depends what people want to play. That said, I appreciate what you're doing and am glad to hear it's going well.
Key is trying to find solutions that players will actually do. If you have a solution but nobody will do it, then you don't have a solution. All this other stuff you mentioned, flopped when I tried it. What I put forth here is not an idea. I am far beyond ideas. It is what we do and it works and players get on board with it.
Example: Everyone wants to shoot after the break. No one wants to push or give up the table to an opponent as you suggest. That does not sell. Do you see what I mean?
I am not being pushy here or saying that everyone should do what we do. I am only explaining what we do and that it is there for anyone to experiment with.
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IMO, Yes. There is magic in the Magic Rack. It helps a player make balls on the break. I do not think that a player should receive any special privilege resulting from the pocketing of balls using a Magic Rack (or any other gadget, for that matter).
Magic Rack
So by your reasoning, an average player that only breaks from the center of the table striking the apex ball squarely will make a ball on the break?
Sorry can't agree with that one. Anybody that has paid attention to the Magic Rack knows that you are not guaranteed to make a ball. You have to adjust to be able to make a ball.
So by your reasoning, an average player that only breaks from the center of the table striking the apex ball squarely will make a ball on the break?
Sorry can't agree with that one. Anybody that has paid attention to the Magic Rack knows that you are not guaranteed to make a ball. You have to adjust to be able to make a ball.
Sorry renfro. This "touching but not frozen" stuff is nonsense.
I mean, I get it. You don't like easy wing balls. But you don't need to make up terms and imaginary physics.
Just say "it makes it too easy and I'd prefer we had to deal with tiny gaps that people can skillfully read".
There is no special ball action imparted by the MBR. I have video of corey playing johnny a set in a regular pool hall, no magic rack, no donuts, and the wing ball goes in all day, with both soft and hard breaks. In tar 17 donny mills makes it all day and they're using a delta 13.
MBR haters seem to feel the breaker gets good results without putting proper time into it. I think it's the rackers of the world who haven't put in the time. Take any average guy in any pool hall, tell him "I want a tight rack" and I guarantee that after he walks away you'll spot gaps. That's because for most people, there's a difference between a "good" rack and a perfect one. But there shouldn't be. We just let paper-thin gaps slide because nobody wants to be a nit about it, and we run out of patience watching a guy with a plastic triangle fuss with the balls for 15 minutes. It's possible to play casually your whole life and never get a truly perfect rack, not even once by accident.
If there's some perfect world where the wing ball only goes with special skill, the kind of skill an A player possesses, tell me what the difference would be? The pros will still make that ball, the only guys who'd be affected are the B and C players. Why do we want to wreck things for them, who cares what happens at their level?
I mean, I get it. You don't like easy wing balls. But you don't need to make up terms and imaginary physics.
Just say "it makes it too easy and I'd prefer we had to deal with tiny gaps that people can skillfully read".
There is no special ball action imparted by the MBR. I have video of corey playing johnny a set in a regular pool hall, no magic rack, no donuts, and the wing ball goes in all day, with both soft and hard breaks. In tar 17 donny mills makes it all day and they're using a delta 13.
MBR haters seem to feel the breaker gets good results without putting proper time into it. I think it's the rackers of the world who haven't put in the time. Take any average guy in any pool hall, tell him "I want a tight rack" and I guarantee that after he walks away you'll spot gaps. That's because for most people, there's a difference between a "good" rack and a perfect one. But there shouldn't be. We just let paper-thin gaps slide because nobody wants to be a nit about it, and we run out of patience watching a guy with a plastic triangle fuss with the balls for 15 minutes. It's possible to play casually your whole life and never get a truly perfect rack, not even once by accident.
If there's some perfect world where the wing ball only goes with special skill, the kind of skill an A player possesses, tell me what the difference would be? The pros will still make that ball, the only guys who'd be affected are the B and C players. Why do we want to wreck things for them, who cares what happens at their level?
Simplicity.......is the majic.