Is there more deflection on hard inside english than hard outside?

KoolKat9Lives

KoolKat9Lives

Taught 'em all I know
Silver Member
I was practicing inside english tonight. When I hit the following shot with speed, I was literally needing a "full ball aim" to make the object ball. If I was using outside on the same shot and factored in the same amount of deflection, I'd be aiming @ a quarter ball AWAY from the object ball - I mean I'd be aiming at, and IMO shooting a whiff! What's up with that? (I also did the mirror image, so I do not believe it is a dominant eye thing)

CueTable Help

 
all things being equal, no.

you know, there is a very good reason for what you observed. the more outside you hit, the more deflection, but also the more the ob gets spun in, see how the effect is counteracting a tad. with inside, there is no counteracting. this is why players favor outside to make balls, there is like a buffer there with respect to cue tip placement accuracy.
 
Neil said:
I believe that if a machine or robot were to shoot the shot identically both ways, there would be no difference. I believe what you are seeing is due to the shooter. A right handed player will tend to hit the cb farther out on an outside english shot than on an inside english shot. He thinks he is hitting them the same, but if you were to mark the balls, I think you would see differently.
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I know physics empiracally mean the cloth doesn't know the cue ball was hit with outside vs inside. Only when contact is made does it matter.

Maybe it's all associated with throw, and that's why inside is an absolute Biatch to use vis a vis any other english. In my cuetable example, unless I'm a mole, it takes a full ball aim to make this shot at speed with my mid-70's Palmer maple shaft.
 
without knowing the science of them all i can tell you inside english is most effected when switching from a LD shaft to a reg shaft. doesnt the robot use inside english during the test.
 
I am not able to see the diagram that you drew so I am trying to visualize from your discription

There may be a differnce in CB deflection by hitting the CB on the right or left side due to your stroke, bridge and/or what hand you stroke with.

Try this test. Place the CB on the head spot. Shoot the ball at the center diamond of the foot rail using right hand english and then left hand english. Note where the CB hits the rail on both. The distance from the diamond should be the same. Do this a few times to get a good reading. This will help show the deflection and any differences.
 
KoolKat9Lives said:
I was practicing inside english tonight. When I hit the following shot with speed, I was literally needing a "full ball aim" to make the object ball. If I was using outside on the same shot and factored in the same amount of deflection, I'd be aiming @ a quarter ball AWAY from the object ball - I mean I'd be aiming at, and IMO shooting a whiff! What's up with that? (I also did the mirror image, so I do not believe it is a dominant eye thing)
...
Click to expand...
The deflection will be the same with the same amount of inside or outside. But most people are using low outside which gives you less deflection, aiming too full and letting the cueball curve and throw the object ball in.
 
The cueball had no idea where the object ball is. Inside on one shot is the same position as outside on another. The cueball cannot tell the difference. If you hit off center, it deflects. If it deflects different, its your stroke.
 
I've noticed the same thing myself but I'm sure it's not due to more deflection on inside vs. outside. I think it's an unconscious aiming error.

If you're like me you aim using the center of the cue ball whether you use english or not. But when you use english the stick is not centered in your line of vision - it's off to the side a bit. It's possible that with the stick offline like this it is angled off to the side a little, that is, it is not strictly parallel to the intended cue ball path. In the shot you diagrammed, you may be aiming the stick in the overcut direction without realizing it, and when you actually overcut the ball you see it as more deflection (squirt).

For some reason with outside english on the diagrammed shot I don't make this error, or the error is smaller.

The only solution I've found is to be careful with the aim of the stick - on the warm up strokes make sure it's moving parallel to what you see as the intended cue ball path.
 
It logically doesn't make any sense , does it. You are probably using a different stroke with inside, but you just don't detect it. You just THINK it's the same stroke.
 
Hitting power inside

:yikes::yikes::bow-down:english shots for me (similar to what you illustrated on WEI) is-as a buddy of mine says ' like having a rattlesnake for a girlfriend-it can be really good or it can be very very bad'. I get bit a lot. I'd even be tempted to go rail first at a slower speed to go around the table to avoid powering that shot.. I just have a lot of trouble with that shot. Rolling or medium speed stroking is Ok but coming around 3 rails like you did with a lot of running inside-I'll over cut it most of the time.

You hit that real good. Nice shot.

I'm glad for you and those who have tamed that 'inside english' beast.

Me-I've got a lot of work to do.

3railkick
 
Neil said:
I believe that if a machine or robot were to shoot the shot identically both ways, there would be no difference. I believe what you are seeing is due to the shooter. A right handed player will tend to hit the cb farther out on an outside english shot than on an inside english shot. He thinks he is hitting them the same, but if you were to mark the balls, I think you would see differently.
Click to expand...

Tap Tap Tap, I totally agree with you here. In addition the stroke used on outside and inside English will differ due to a lack of confidants using inside English.
 
Most people use a little outside english anytime they cut a ball. After much practice a person develops what's called and "eye". That's the ability of their sub-conscience automatically compensating their aim for the cue ball deflection that occurs when using this english. Inside english is used very less often and the sub-conscience is nor compensating properly.

Dick
 
Let's just talk inside english

I messed up my OP... I know the title is fail... Ooops, I was distracted by beer and boobs. :o

Maybe someone would try this shot, as well as it's mirror image, and post whether you were aiming full ball. FYI, I did this on a 9' GCIII that rolls average speed with good (but not superspeed) rails. I did this shot and its mirror for @ 45 minutes straight and I got the shot down, as evidenced by whitey getting where I diagrammed on the cuetable in post 1.

I'd like to change the discussion to inside english - its challenging use, how to improve your use of it, and its practical use in competitive play. It has to be one of the most difficult shots in pool.


Thanks,

Matt
 
rhncue said:
Most people use a little outside english anytime they cut a ball. After much practice a person develops what's called and "eye". That's the ability of their sub-conscience automatically compensating their aim for the cue ball deflection that occurs when using this english. Inside english is used very less often and the sub-conscience is nor compensating properly.

Dick
Click to expand...



"Most people use a little outside english anytime they cut a ball."
Dick, why is that? SPF=randyg
 
Far away high inside english is the hardest shot in pool as far as I am concerned. It's a monster, you feel great when you make it but thats usually the shot that let's the dog out.

Physically though the answer to your question should be no. In real life though, that inside causes life problems.
 
mikeyfrost said:
Far away high inside english is the hardest shot in pool as far as I am concerned. It's a monster, you feel great when you make it but thats usually the shot that let's the dog out.
Click to expand...

But why is that? Why is inside so difficult?

It is a shot advanced players must have, perhaps not to be a commonly used shot at warp speed, but to maneuver thru traffic at slower speeds - it's a must!
 
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