It's Really More A Hobby For Most

Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
Does anyone know what the WPBA Classic payouts were for 2007 and what they will be for 2008? They don't put them in the brackets anyone. The last I found was the 2006 Midwest Classic. I believe they are paying LESS now.

1st=$16,000_ 2nd =$8,000_ 3rd= $5,300_ 5th-8th=$3,000_9th-16th=$2,100_17th-24th=$1,500_25th-32nd=$1,000_33rd-48th=$600_49th-64=points only

The WPBA tour is by far the best paying tour in the USA right now. But when you figure it only has five or six events that all the women on tour can play in and a $500 entry fee, another $1,000 for travel, hotel/motel, food, and those that work lose pay for two or three days. They will need to cash an average of 17th-24th=$1500 to break even for the season.

If they don't have a good sponsor (and a lot don't) then it?s really an expensive hobby. It's really a shame. Johnnyt
 
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I cant believe thats all they make! I dont think most people watching have any idea that there is that little money in the pool
 
To find some of the payouts just click here and click on some of the women. It looks like 1st was anywhere between $12,000 and $15000
 
yoyodude9000 said:
I cant believe thats all they make! I dont think most people watching have any idea that there is that little money in the pool
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And this exactly my point regarding the high prices of custom cues !!!

It's simply not warranted....

There was an income comparison with professional pool players and professional bowlers several + years ago, regarding that after evaluating the top 100 professional bowlers for that year... that the 100th finisher in money out ranked the #1 professional pool player in earnings... so that should tell you something considering theres not much money in professional bowling to begin with, but atleast you can recouperate your equipment expenses in a realistic time frame w/ bowling, unlike pool where in most instances the "custom cues" are such an extreme investment that some never even see half of the return throughout their entire life of playing...

But because pro-players usually don't pay for thier cues this is post really isn't referring exclusively to the Pros. I'm referring to the general population who plays competively in local tournaments and their payouts but is forced to buy these expensive tools in order to improve thier game and enjoyment of this wonderful sport !

Anyways.... It's just my opinion and is a valid one !



Sincerely, Eddie Wheat
 
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They need to take up bass fishing

Johnnyt said:
Does anyone know what the WPBA Classic payouts were for 2007 and what they will be for 2008? They don?t put them in the brackets anyone. The last I found was the 2006 Midwest Classic. I believe they are paying LESS now.

1st=$16,000_ 2nd =$8,000_ 3rd= $5,300_ 5th-8th=$3,000_9th-16th=$2,100_17th-24th=$1,500_25th-32nd=$1,000_33rd-48th=$600_49th-64=points only

The WPBA tour is by far the best paying tour in the USA right now. But when you figure it only has five or six events that all the women on tour can play in and a $500 entry fee, another $1,000 for travel, hotel/motel, food, and those that work lose pay for two or three days. They will need to cash an average of 17th-24th=$1500 to break even for the season.

If they don?t have a good sponsor (and a lot don?t) then it?s really an expensive hobby. It?s really a shame. Johnnyt
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or poker! ;)

MM
 
And this exactly my point regarding the high prices of custom cues !!!

It's simply not warranted....

There was an income comparison with professional pool players and professional bowlers several + years ago, regarding that after evaluating the top 100 professional bowlers for that year... that the 100th finisher in money out ranked the #1 professional pool player in earnings... so that should tell you something considering theres not much money in professional bowling to begin with, but atleast you can recouperate your equipment expenses in a realistic time frame w/ bowling, unlike pool where in most instances the "custom cues" are such an extreme investment that some never even see half of the return throughout their entire life of playing...

But because pro-players usually don't pay for thier cues this is post really isn't referring exclusively to the Pros. I'm referring to the general population who plays competively in local tournaments and their payouts but is forced to buy these expensive tools in order to improve thier game and enjoyment of this wonderful sport !

Anyways.... It's just my opinion and is a valid one !



Sincerely, Eddie Wheat
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there again maybe a lot of cuemakers simply aren't in a position to offer cues that much cheaper, and have it still being worthwhile and profitable for them. after all, custom cues are quite a niche market.

i've just noticed you are a cuemaker yourself so you probably know more than me about the subject though.
 
How many $200 dollar aftermarket shafts were sold last year?

Pool is not a major sport.
It's not tv-friendly.
The 2-second attention span MTV generation don't want to play or watch pool.
Corporate America considers the pool-playing demographic close to the least desirable demographic imo.

If you play pool, prepare to donate to the sport. If you make cues, prepare to spend more than you can earn. If you are a poolhall owner, prepare to work 16 hours a day and barely make ends meet.

If you have a factory in China, you're probably getting rich.
 
worriedbeef said:
there again maybe a lot of cuemakers simply aren't in a position to offer cues that much cheaper, and have it still being worthwhile and profitable for them. after all, custom cues are quite a niche market.

i've just noticed you are a cuemaker yourself so you probably know more than me about the subject though.
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I always appreciate different perspectives through other's eyes... and yes even though I'm a cuemaker the price of materials is the same across the board for the most part.... quality is never to be compromised but a certain amount of monetary greed should be reconsidered....

Success should NOT dictate prices.... if everyone went for volume sales instead of targeting an elite group than that would be more beneficial to everyone....

But you can't change human nature...... I fortunately have never been greedy or never will be and I'm not saying that makes me better than anyone else or worse... it just gives me a different platform to operate on....

I simply want EVERYONE to be able to afford my cues not just the privleged few.... and I for one give people more for their money than they expect !

Once again, I'm not better... just different !

The custom market is overpriced plain and simple and if most of these cuemakers catered more to the customers instead of making the customers cater to them, then their would be plenty of revenue being generated and then the need for worry of living costs and profits will be eliminated !

I personally are one of the few who ARE doing this as a living NOT as a hobby and/or additional income, and are doing just fine !

But this approach obviosly isn't for everyone......


Sincerely, Eddie Wheat
 
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JoeyInCali said:
How many $200 dollar aftermarket shafts were sold last year?

Pool is not a major sport.
It's not tv-friendly.
The 2-second attention span MTV generation don't want to play or watch pool.
Corporate America considers the pool-playing demographic close to the least desirable demographic imo.

If you play pool, prepare to donate to the sport. If you make cues, prepare to spend more than you can earn. If you are a poolhall owner, prepare to work 16 hours a day and barely make ends meet.

If you have a factory in China, you're probably getting rich.
Click to expand...


WELL SAID JOEY !





- Eddie Wheat
 
magix said:
hi ew-do you have a wep site?pixs?price list. thanks
Click to expand...


My official "WheatCues.com" site is still being assembled by my endorser however, I do have a slideshow that you can view some of my playing and J/B cues at this link "www.myspace.com/cuesmith1"

My base starting price for a custom fitted playing cue with decorative rings is 350.00

My Jump/Break cues start at 225.00

Certain exotic woods are more expensive than others and justify a slight price increase !

If you have any questions please call anytime !




Sincerely, Eddie Wheat 321-631-1827
 
Johnnyt said:
Does anyone know what the WPBA Classic payouts were for 2007 and what they will be for 2008? They don't put them in the brackets anyone. The last I found was the 2006 Midwest Classic. I believe they are paying LESS now.

1st=$16,000_ 2nd =$8,000_ 3rd= $5,300_ 5th-8th=$3,000_9th-16th=$2,100_17th-24th=$1,500_25th-32nd=$1,000_33rd-48th=$600_49th-64=points only

The WPBA tour is by far the best paying tour in the USA right now. But when you figure it only has five or six events that all the women on tour can play in and a $500 entry fee, another $1,000 for travel, hotel/motel, food, and those that work lose pay for two or three days. They will need to cash an average of 17th-24th=$1500 to break even for the season.

If they don't have a good sponsor (and a lot don't) then it?s really an expensive hobby. It's really a shame. Johnnyt
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I agree, a shame. You know,I used to LOVE going to tournaments at the now gone "Q street" in Springfield, Oregon. There, I was able to see names like Rodney Morris, Billy Palmer, Atwell, Raphael Martiniz, Danny Medina, and other highly skilled guys play. It was all free. To watch.

At that same time period. Thousands flocked to watch a "Ducks" college football game. How much did they pay for a "nosebleed" seat? The quarterback, highly touted at the time, was Joey Harrington. He just got released from the Atlanta Falcons. Talent vs. talent? Respective games?

Man, I'd rather watch Rodney make a multi cushion bank than "Joey" throw a football. But...that's just me.
 
The prices of custom cues have nothing to do with the payouts in professional pool.

Professional pool is simply a sport or game that promoters feel that they can toy with at will to package however they want and spend as little on as possible. Therefore as long as this remains the status quo then there will not be any major shift in player income because no one is bringing a consistent product to the public.

The REASON the WPBA does not publish or announce the winnings anymore is that they don't want to show the public how little the "Pros" actually earn for their efforts.

As for the price of cues well I think that over the last 20 years the overall quality of cues has improved tremendously and the price has gone down. If you are a beginner then you can buy a perfectly adequate cue that you can use all the way to becoming a world champion for $50.

The reason people pay more than that is the same reason we all don't drive Yugos, personal preference. We generally try to buy the best we can afford to get that makes us happy in the process.

The nut on the WPBA isn't easy. But one thing the women can count on is conistentcy. Even though the payouts aren't going to make the bottom levels wealthy they at least are dependable.

I honestly can't think of a real good reason though that the WPBA hasn't been able to land a major corporate sponsor who wants the many hours of television that the WPBA gets. If I were Coke I would have to be foolish not to throw the WPBA a couple million from my billion dollar marketing budget. I don't know why the WPBA doesn't have a tour that's worth 10 million a year divided amongst the top 64 players at this point.

As Buddy Hall says, maybe they need to put more rubber to the road.

I don't know if they have anyone who is calling on these companies in person - I don't even know how the process works. We get sponsorship proposals all the time.

I just have to belive that in an era where a billion dollars doesn't even make people blink any more when they read it that the WPBA with it's truly remarkable consistentcy can get several million of the fortune 500 marketing budget.
 
JoeyInCali said:
How many $200 dollar aftermarket shafts were sold last year?

Pool is not a major sport.
It's not tv-friendly.
The 2-second attention span MTV generation don't want to play or watch pool.
Corporate America considers the pool-playing demographic close to the least desirable demographic imo.

If you play pool, prepare to donate to the sport. If you make cues, prepare to spend more than you can earn. If you are a poolhall owner, prepare to work 16 hours a day and barely make ends meet.

If you have a factory in China, you're probably getting rich.
Click to expand...


Enough to provide full time employment for two dozen Americans involved in selling them directly. And the dealer profits from those shafts probably paid the wages for many hundreds more Americans around the country.

Certainly the people who make the boxes the shafts come in, the shipping companies who carry the shafts and the dealers who deal in them were happy with the sales of these shafts.

Your post is awfully gloomy. Are you saying that no cue makers make money and make a good living? No poolroom owners make money?

I happen to know many who do quite well. American cue makers who turn a tidy profit and live well. I know room owners who work hard and have profitable pool rooms that provide stable employment and a nice living for them.

I think that these cue makers and pool room owners would attribute their success to their business acumen rather than what the "MTV generation" wants or doesn't want.

As to the crack about China - lol. If you only had any idea what's going on in China you would definitely have another attitude. But as long as you are getting your education from sound bites you have no idea.

Right now Joey, the RMB is stronger against the dollar which means that Chinese goods are more expensive now. Added to that wages have gone up over 30% and now all employers are required to pay five different insurances for all employees in China which effectively raises wages 60%. Raw materials are up 20-50%. The standard of living is rising quickly in China and with it costs are rising as well. This is the cycle that happens in all industrialized nations.

Pool in the USA is at a low point but there is still plenty of business opportunity to succeed.
 
My Opinion

Eddie,

Your opinion is your own. How valid it is is open for debate. Nobody is forced to buy expensive cues to play well. A bit of a pain to tote but I won far more than my share with a twelve dollar house cue with a ten dollar tip on it. Owning a $60-$75 one piece cue will still make your equipment competitive with anybody's in the world. For a little more, buy a sneaky pete. There is not a better hitting cue than a sneaky pete, my opinion. When people want pride of ownership they pay for it. They usually could drive a far cheaper vehicle than the one they own and the people in any other sport routinely have far more in their gear than needed to get the job done. I went to a boat show recently. $50-$70 thousand for a bass boat. A twelve to fifteen thousand dollar boat will catch as many or more fish and I have caught countless limits of bass out of a $200 canoe. Still no shortage of boats sold that cost three times what my first house did.

People are buying art and craftsmanship when they pay more than four to eight hundred for a cue. Their choice. My cue shop sits idle though and my custom gun building tools are boxed up. The brutal truth is that I can walk next door to my friend's machine shop and do grunt work running a lathe or mill and make more money day in and day out with no aggravation than I can make building cues. I cut stainless steel and plastic, less aluminum and a little black iron. I don't have to worry about adhesives or finishes failing, wood warping after I have cut on it for months, or unhappy customers that didn't know what they were ordering when they ordered it.

The local auto mechanics and appliance repairmen charge $65 to $100 an hour for shop time. What do you charge? How many hours do you have in a typical stick from first turning to final finish? After figuring shop overhead, materials, and consumables, what is your hourly rate for making a custom cue? If you keep up with it accurately I'll bet the farm that I make a lot more net per hour doing grunt work in the machine shop.

I'll be offering my art for sale soon. The prices will be based on both shop time and artistic merit. Custom cues may look very cheap!

Hu


WheatCues said:
And this exactly my point regarding the high prices of custom cues !!!

It's simply not warranted....

(major snip)

because pro-players usually don't pay for thier cues this is post really isn't referring exclusively to the Pros. I'm referring to the general population who plays competively in local tournaments and their payouts but is forced to buy these expensive tools in order to improve thier game and enjoyment of this wonderful sport !

Anyways.... It's just my opinion and is a valid one !

Sincerely, Eddie Wheat
Click to expand...
 
Your post is awfully gloomy. Are you saying that no cue makers make money and make a good living? No poolroom owners make money?

It is gloomy.
If someone starts playing now, he better be not thinking he'll be making money. He'll be donating to the sport for a long time before ( if ever he makes money ).

If someone starts making cues now, he better have a long string cuz he ain't gonna make money for a while.

If you open a pool hall, better be prepared to work 16 hours and barely keeping your place open. A gallon of gas is around $3.50 here. Disposable income is getting less daily.

IF you really get down to it and really consider everything, there might be really no money in pool at all relatively speaking. Consider any pro-player's expenditure and the THOUSANDS of hours he/she has invested in pool to get really good. Take that THOUSANDS of hours studying any craft obsessively, he/she might have a nice career.

I saw Parica one night at HT. He had a bunch of Chinese-made cues. He was selling them for around $150 or so. He was happy. His cost was like $30-40 each. He sold a bunch of them he said.

I know a billiard store owner locally. He just closed two branches. Nobody's going to stores to buy tables now. Plenty of dealers on Ebay/Craigslist selling the same Chinese tables he offers.
 
I was talking to a friend of mine and his wife qualified for a few WPBA tourneys. The key word here is qualified?....they turn away MANY Women who want to play in their events, and that means $$$ lost. If you have players that can't qualify, but want to put up the $$$ anyway to play knowing they can't or most likely won't cash why the hell would you turn them away?.....silly
 
ShootingArts said:
Eddie,

Your opinion is your own. How valid it is is open for debate. Nobody is forced to buy expensive cues to play well. A bit of a pain to tote but I won far more than my share with a twelve dollar house cue with a ten dollar tip on it. Owning a $60-$75 one piece cue will still make your equipment competitive with anybody's in the world. For a little more, buy a sneaky pete. There is not a better hitting cue than a sneaky pete, my opinion. When people want pride of ownership they pay for it. They usually could drive a far cheaper vehicle than the one they own and the people in any other sport routinely have far more in their gear than needed to get the job done. I went to a boat show recently. $50-$70 thousand for a bass boat. A twelve to fifteen thousand dollar boat will catch as many or more fish and I have caught countless limits of bass out of a $200 canoe. Still no shortage of boats sold that cost three times what my first house did.

People are buying art and craftsmanship when they pay more than four to eight hundred for a cue. Their choice. My cue shop sits idle though and my custom gun building tools are boxed up. The brutal truth is that I can walk next door to my friend's machine shop and do grunt work running a lathe or mill and make more money day in and day out with no aggravation than I can make building cues. I cut stainless steel and plastic, less aluminum and a little black iron. I don't have to worry about adhesives or finishes failing, wood warping after I have cut on it for months, or unhappy customers that didn't know what they were ordering when they ordered it.

The local auto mechanics and appliance repairmen charge $65 to $100 an hour for shop time. What do you charge? How many hours do you have in a typical stick from first turning to final finish? After figuring shop overhead, materials, and consumables, what is your hourly rate for making a custom cue? If you keep up with it accurately I'll bet the farm that I make a lot more net per hour doing grunt work in the machine shop.

I'll be offering my art for sale soon. The prices will be based on both shop time and artistic merit. Custom cues may look very cheap!

Hu
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HU,

I agree with you 100% about sneaky pete's playing the best and I will tell you why... it's becasue the woods structural integrety has not been compromised with a bunch of inlays and different woods therefore you will find the grain undisturbed for the most part and the original properties of the wood to be intact and that will give you the best feel you ever get in cue !

Now, responding to the second half of your feelings.... I really don't care how you feel.... I am who I am offering the best of what I have to offer at a realistic affordable price, simply giving customers more than they expect and not raping them in the process....

Cue building is no secret... there is NOT anything magical about it, and I will tell it like it is because I GIVE A DAMN !!!!!!

This industry is getting spoiled and it's bullshit!!! I am a pool player before anything else I do, and I for one am sick and friggin tired of seeing the general public being raped by a bunch of spoiled overpriced cuemakers !!!!!!

I am not here to make friends or enemies but I will NOT tolerate highrolling when it comes to cue prices !!! these players and general customers deserve equipment at a reasonable price and should not be put in the the situation to have to choose between a new car and a friggin' pool cue !

And I am not saying that ALL cuemakers are overpriced just the vast majority who decided to capitalize on thier name due to success and then charge 2 -3 times more for the same exact work just becasue they can get it !

So on that note.. sell all the art you like I'm sure there are plenty of art collectors that will pay premium price for your sperm whale bone and jewels in your cues... meanwhile I WILL be building reasonably priced tools for the serious player who wants to better thier game and in turn be able to give you the last 3 and beat your brains in on the table !


Sincerely, Eddie Wheat
 
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WheatCues said:
HU,

I agree with you 100% about sneaky pete's playing the best and I will tell you why... it's becasue the woods structural integrety has not been compromised with a bunch of inlays and different woods therefore you will find the grain undisturbed for the most part and the original properties of the wood to be intact and that will give you the best feel you ever get in cue !

Now, responding to the second half of your feelings.... I really don't care how you feel.... I am who I am offering the best of what I have to offer at a realistic affordable price, simply giving customers more than they expect and not raping them in the process....

Cue building is no secret... there is NOT anything magical about it, and I will tell it like it is because I GIVE A DAMN !!!!!!

This industry is getting spoiled and it's bullshit!!! I am a pool player before anything else I do, and I for one am sick and friggin tired of seeing the general public being raped by a bunch of spoiled overpriced cuemakers !!!!!!

I am not here to make friends or enemies but I will NOT tolerate highrolling when it comes to cue prices !!! these players and general customers deserve equipment at a reasonable price and should not be put in the the situation to have to choose between a new car and a friggin' pool cue !

So on that note.. sell all the art you like I'm sure there are plenty of art collectors that will pay premium price for your sperm whale bone and jewels in your cues... meanwhile I WILL be building reasonably priced tools for the serious player who wants to better thier game and in turn be able to give you the last 3 and beat your brains in on the table !


Sincerely, Eddie Wheat
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This thread is about purses....not cues please. Johnnyt
 
hi eddie wheat

for me i feel all the good cuemakers make a great cue.what makes me decide on whos more valuable is things like ,availability,if i like the cuemaker,if their really old etc. why is a mike sigel cue going to be worth more than a eddie wheat because mike sigel made it with his own hands.the same with a bobby hunter .i know you could make a cue as nice eddie but bobby is more famous because he was a world class player.your right anybody can build a cue, but winning world titles makes their work more valuable whether you think their raping people or not.sorry to have to put it like that but its true.you think if efren made one cue ever and you made one cue ever both off the same quality.whos would sell for more . also you seem to be trying to say the cuemakers are robbing everybody buy from me.nice try man. i
 
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