It's The CB
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A fine question.
It seems some folks like to stir up trouble, and get some satisfaction from doing so.
That is the only reason I can think of to explain troll-like behavior. There sure is plenty of it on every forum, not just AZB.
You'll have to ask John Barton.
Hu,
True dat!
Keeping the cue ball on a string is what seperates the players from the bangers. Turning whitey loose makes my heart race and a knot take hold of my gut. :grin: The cue ball position through natural angles and speed control makes the game seem easy.
I like to visualize a total picture of pocketing the ball and the cue ball moving into a position zone. If I do them seperately, there is a disconnect as I aim and then stroke the shot. I try too hard to make the ball and my brain loses the big picture. At the last second I tighten up and steer the shot as I consciously try to get my position. Instead of being on automatic and letting a total picture play out, I'm trying to control and piece together a few different steps.
Obviously pocketing the ball is the main objective in pool. Everybody agrees with that. But what about the next shot? Unless you're playing One ball, you need to work the cue ball and include it in your total shot picture.
Best,
Mike
i would think at times the mere interaction is reward enough. kudos to all
phil, here is a fine example of trolling. ie. provoking an emotional response from JB.
(#53)
SmoothStroke
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Status: Offline Posts: 140vCash: 500iTrader: 0 / 0% Join Date: Jul 2005
The Cue Ball - 09-27-2005, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLW
I know a lot of the posters on this forum have had the good fortune to play with and learn from some great pro players (and great unknowns). What would you say is the best piece of pool advice you ever got from one?
I was a kid racking for a world champion practicing for the world straight pool championships.During the session he had a run over 200 and another run over 100 back to back. After that we sat and ate while watching action. One player was a good shot maker the other a good shot maker and had cue ball control. He said to me, everyone is a shot maker ..thats where you start to Learn,, it always stays with you......learn the cuball. Pool is one thing,,, it's all about the cueball ,,,the other 15 balls are objects you play with while playing pool with the cue ball. Then learn how to seperate yourself from mental and physical distraction, Do all of this while you get an education.
SmoothStroke
Registered User
Status: Offline Posts: 140vCash: 500iTrader: 0 / 0% Join Date: Jul 2005
The Cue Ball - 09-27-2005, 10:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLW
I know a lot of the posters on this forum have had the good fortune to play with and learn from some great pro players (and great unknowns). What would you say is the best piece of pool advice you ever got from one?
I was a kid racking for a world champion practicing for the world straight pool championships.During the session he had a run over 200 and another run over 100 back to back. After that we sat and ate while watching action. One player was a good shot maker the other a good shot maker and had cue ball control. He said to me, everyone is a shot maker ..thats where you start to Learn,, it always stays with you......learn the cuball. Pool is one thing,,, it's all about the cueball ,,,the other 15 balls are objects you play with while playing pool with the cue ball. Then learn how to seperate yourself from mental and physical distraction, Do all of this while you get an education.
you are an effin genius. i missed it
Don't sweat it. Chef Randy isn't even close. He is an infant troll compared to the world champion trolls who could spot him the six out and are still banned forever from this site while I am still here.
He could write a million words and not get me hot. He doesn't know me well enough AND I have the goods on him to expose him as a hypocrite every time he tries to play the China card.
In other words to stay on topic he is constantly miscuing with every post.
i whole heartedly agree for what its worth. btw thats an education in its own exact right
Trolls get off on pissing other people off. The more the target gets pissed the more they laugh. That's the real trolls. Forum trolls are just people like Randy and Thaiger who get offended when called on their BS and so they become baby stalkers trying to burn the person who dared to call them out.
Only it often backfires and their own hypocrisy is exposed in short order.
you make a great case Mr. Barton but in my dissertation in my useless soc media class you were one of the antagonists. now that its all done i can ask, is this the role you enjoy?
great point!
Mike,
I really like the point you made there. When I realized that making the shot and getting shape were just two parts of a whole things started coming together. No shift in what I was doing as much as a shift in perception. Instead of fighting to do two different things on most shots it was more allowing things to happen without trying to force them.
When I quit trying to force things to happen on most shots there was a harmony and it became natural to use speed and angles most of the time with very slight adjustments to the cue ball's path.
Pool was a simple game when I started playing. Then it got very very complicated. After awhile it was a simple game again when I became at peace with the table.
Hu
Mike,
I really like the point you made there. When I realized that making the shot and getting shape were just two parts of a whole things started coming together. No shift in what I was doing as much as a shift in perception. Instead of fighting to do two different things on most shots it was more allowing things to happen without trying to force them.
When I quit trying to force things to happen on most shots there was a harmony and it became natural to use speed and angles most of the time with very slight adjustments to the cue ball's path.
Pool was a simple game when I started playing. Then it got very very complicated. After awhile it was a simple game again when I became at peace with the table.
Hu
Step 1- Learn to repeatedly get the cue to go in a straight line
Step 2- Learn to hit the cb exactly where you want to.
Step 3- Learn to pocket balls
Step 4- Learn some speed control
Step 5- Learn english on the cb, how it affects your aim on the shot, and how it reacts off rails.
Step 6- Learn position play to a general area.
Step 7- Learn to pocket balls to a specific part of the pocket. (fine tune your aim)
Step 7- Learn to position cb to a specific area of table. (fine tune your position play)
You will never learn to fine tune your position play until you learn to precisely pocket balls to specific areas of the pocket. Hitting different areas of the pocket can change your position play by several diamonds easily. If you are sloppy on where you hit the ob, you will automatically be sloppy on where the cb ends ups. The two go hand in hand together.
Which is more important? Pocketing balls, obviously. If you miss position, you are still shooting. If you miss pocketing the ball, you are done shooting.
The big separation between A's and shortstops, and shortstops and pros is in how much they have fine tuned the two aspects of shotmaking and position play. And, in how much they have made those aspects a part of their subconscious so they don't have to think so much about it. (edit: speed control is a part of position play, and is the key to the better safes. It's the difference between leaving a jump shot, or a lock up safe)
The advantage will always go to the person that has a system that he has thoroughly learned. When in those situations that you just haven't come across yet, and your subconscious has to guess on what exactly to do, the system player can easily KNOW what to do because he knows what the reactions are, and he can take a second to figure out exactly how to get to where he wants to and not have to guess.
Step 2- Learn to hit the cb exactly where you want to.
Step 3- Learn to pocket balls
Step 4- Learn some speed control
Step 5- Learn english on the cb, how it affects your aim on the shot, and how it reacts off rails.
Step 6- Learn position play to a general area.
Step 7- Learn to pocket balls to a specific part of the pocket. (fine tune your aim)
Step 7- Learn to position cb to a specific area of table. (fine tune your position play)
You will never learn to fine tune your position play until you learn to precisely pocket balls to specific areas of the pocket. Hitting different areas of the pocket can change your position play by several diamonds easily. If you are sloppy on where you hit the ob, you will automatically be sloppy on where the cb ends ups. The two go hand in hand together.
Which is more important? Pocketing balls, obviously. If you miss position, you are still shooting. If you miss pocketing the ball, you are done shooting.
The big separation between A's and shortstops, and shortstops and pros is in how much they have fine tuned the two aspects of shotmaking and position play. And, in how much they have made those aspects a part of their subconscious so they don't have to think so much about it. (edit: speed control is a part of position play, and is the key to the better safes. It's the difference between leaving a jump shot, or a lock up safe)
The advantage will always go to the person that has a system that he has thoroughly learned. When in those situations that you just haven't come across yet, and your subconscious has to guess on what exactly to do, the system player can easily KNOW what to do because he knows what the reactions are, and he can take a second to figure out exactly how to get to where he wants to and not have to guess.
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Well,there are quire a few here that have proved the OP correct.
More talk than action.
Oh sense we are so far off topic, What the hell is up with system users? Man, it feels like talking to some religious cult at times and I don't mean just pocket players either.
I've been having a on going discussion with some 3 cushion players about the pocket table games and 3 cushion. Two are die hard system players and have been trying to so me a diamond system.
One give a drawing with the system and one day I was at the pocket tables just trying to get the feel for it. Guy comes over and without me even asking, starts giving a lesson on how to use it and the spot on the wall.
Whenever I asked a specific question about something, never got a straight answer and never asked how I did things as if the way I have been playing was wrong.
Well, when I started asking what he wanted me to do with the CB, instead of telling me step by step what to do, I did everything he asked,,,,,all with using the diamond system.
Yesterday, the other guy feel he needs to give me a lesson, again without me asking for one and me being able to do everything he asked of the CB without knowing they diamond system.
Again, he never asked how I did things on the table.
When I explained to each the way I was able to do those things, I got a dumb look from them cause there was no system used. I will continue to use what works for me and let other people just wonder how the hell I did that without using a system.
I realized that on line or off line , system users are just a royal pain in the ass. Neither wanted to hear something different, something new. Just the system works, you must use the system.
One guy was having me do a simple cross corner kick to a ball hanging in the pocket. I mentioned that with the OB in the pocket like that is is better to go two rails in order not to scratch and to keep the CB out of the corner pocket for the next shot.
This concept was foreign to him in that a 3 cushion table has no pockets and only three balls. But he wasn't hearing any of it, so I hit where he said and sure know the CB followed the OB in. I set the same shot again, went two rails, made the OB and got shape for the next shot. I showed him that even if I didn't follow on his one rail attempt, I would not have shape to pocket the next ball. Deer in the headlight look from him.
Oh even with their system, they admitted you still have to make adjustments, which is done by feel.
Oh, I guess neither trust their system enough cause neither played in the recent tourney they had at Edgies.
I'm still gonna try the diamond idea for a bit to see if I can get better at safety responses. I do believe their system works on 3 cushions table cause I seen it in use, but on a pocket table and pocket games, things are little different, which these really could understand since they are 3 cushion players.
Another day, I was messing around with banking. Guy comes over to show me his banking system...again, I never asked, but system users seem to feel justified in imposing their system on others.
He explain it to me, tried to show me, and missed both tries. The ole, well, I'm not used to the table line came out as for the reason for missing.
I just looked him, rolled three balls out on the table and ran all three, banking each,without using his system. He never asked how I banked.
Be a die hard by the book system users if you want, but you'll never understand what artistry there is in pool.
More talk than action.
Oh sense we are so far off topic, What the hell is up with system users? Man, it feels like talking to some religious cult at times and I don't mean just pocket players either.
I've been having a on going discussion with some 3 cushion players about the pocket table games and 3 cushion. Two are die hard system players and have been trying to so me a diamond system.
One give a drawing with the system and one day I was at the pocket tables just trying to get the feel for it. Guy comes over and without me even asking, starts giving a lesson on how to use it and the spot on the wall.
Whenever I asked a specific question about something, never got a straight answer and never asked how I did things as if the way I have been playing was wrong.
Well, when I started asking what he wanted me to do with the CB, instead of telling me step by step what to do, I did everything he asked,,,,,all with using the diamond system.
Yesterday, the other guy feel he needs to give me a lesson, again without me asking for one and me being able to do everything he asked of the CB without knowing they diamond system.
Again, he never asked how I did things on the table.
When I explained to each the way I was able to do those things, I got a dumb look from them cause there was no system used. I will continue to use what works for me and let other people just wonder how the hell I did that without using a system.
I realized that on line or off line , system users are just a royal pain in the ass. Neither wanted to hear something different, something new. Just the system works, you must use the system.
One guy was having me do a simple cross corner kick to a ball hanging in the pocket. I mentioned that with the OB in the pocket like that is is better to go two rails in order not to scratch and to keep the CB out of the corner pocket for the next shot.
This concept was foreign to him in that a 3 cushion table has no pockets and only three balls. But he wasn't hearing any of it, so I hit where he said and sure know the CB followed the OB in. I set the same shot again, went two rails, made the OB and got shape for the next shot. I showed him that even if I didn't follow on his one rail attempt, I would not have shape to pocket the next ball. Deer in the headlight look from him.
Oh even with their system, they admitted you still have to make adjustments, which is done by feel.
Oh, I guess neither trust their system enough cause neither played in the recent tourney they had at Edgies.
I'm still gonna try the diamond idea for a bit to see if I can get better at safety responses. I do believe their system works on 3 cushions table cause I seen it in use, but on a pocket table and pocket games, things are little different, which these really could understand since they are 3 cushion players.
Another day, I was messing around with banking. Guy comes over to show me his banking system...again, I never asked, but system users seem to feel justified in imposing their system on others.
He explain it to me, tried to show me, and missed both tries. The ole, well, I'm not used to the table line came out as for the reason for missing.
I just looked him, rolled three balls out on the table and ran all three, banking each,without using his system. He never asked how I banked.
Be a die hard by the book system users if you want, but you'll never understand what artistry there is in pool.
You're right duckie, systems are for losers and bangers. No one worth a lick EVER uses any type of system for playing pool. Maybe someday you will actually learn enough to understand that systems are an ADDITION to feel, not a replacement.
Mike-
Another fine and thoughtful post. (not surprising)
--we sometimes say 'And Then?' to our newbie team mate as a reminder to create an angle with ball in hand to achieve natural area shape.
Chosing a shot, seeing and executing both halves of the whole shot are the elements of nearly every shot we take. Fun when it's working-think it, visualize it, make it with good position for the next puzzle piece.
Mike-what you describe is kind of a 'And Then' Zen.
When really dialed in-no thinking needed- the seeing and doing parts are in play.
Take care
You're right duckie, systems are for losers and bangers. No one worth a lick EVER uses any type of system for playing pool. Maybe someday you will actually learn enough to understand that systems are an ADDITION to feel, not a replacement.
Well choosen words!
Like always Neil
lg
Ingo
Duckie: Here's an example of what I am referring to- cuetable isn't working, so I will describe the shots-
Put the ob on the foot spot. Place the cb so you have a left cut to the near corner pocket, with the inside edge of the cb even with the outside edge of the ob, and about a foot or more away from the ob. You want the cb and ob near to parallel to the short rail.
Now, just apply follow to the cb. Where will the cb hit the second rail on the table? Do you know without trying the shot to find out?
Now, part two, take the same positions for the ob and cb and move them both one diamond closer to the short rail. Same shot, just follow. Now where will the cb hit the second rail? Do you know without trying it? Was there a difference, and if so, what was the difference?
This shows WHY systems are useful.
Put the ob on the foot spot. Place the cb so you have a left cut to the near corner pocket, with the inside edge of the cb even with the outside edge of the ob, and about a foot or more away from the ob. You want the cb and ob near to parallel to the short rail.
Now, just apply follow to the cb. Where will the cb hit the second rail on the table? Do you know without trying the shot to find out?
Now, part two, take the same positions for the ob and cb and move them both one diamond closer to the short rail. Same shot, just follow. Now where will the cb hit the second rail? Do you know without trying it? Was there a difference, and if so, what was the difference?
This shows WHY systems are useful.
Hey Bill,
Here's a clip that explains the, "And Then" analogy pretty well...:grin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=K7luMp6lb9M
Best,
Mike
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