Ivory Joint Hit???

ProZack

Zack's "On the Road" Cue Repair
Silver Member
I know this has been discussed 1.5 Million times, but what is the difference between the hit of a Ivory Jointed cue and a Juma or Stainless?
If you could just point me in the direction of the last thread that discussed this topic that will be sufficient.

Thanks
 
Ivory joint hit.

If you can ,find all three jointed cues you just desribed and hit them yourself and make YOUR decision. Rich aka the skunk.
 
I know this has been discussed 1.5 Million times, but what is the difference between the hit of a Ivory Jointed cue and a Juma or Stainless?
If you could just point me in the direction of the last thread that discussed this topic that will be sufficient.

Thanks


The big thing about ivory joints is the look.

It's also lighter so the balance of the cue will be a little different.

I'm not sure that if you covered up the joint with masking tape anyone could tell you what kind of joint a cue has.

And oh yes, an ivory joint will cost you more.

Lou Figueroa
 
Ivory is solid soft.

A smoother softer hit. Ivory joint does cost more but the hit is worth it in my opinon. You really need to experiment on your own and draw your own conclusions. Not all like blonds, some dig those redheads.
 
I know this has been discussed 1.5 Million times, but what is the difference between the hit of a Ivory Jointed cue and a Juma or Stainless?
If you could just point me in the direction of the last thread that discussed this topic that will be sufficient.

Thanks
The problem with the question is that the material is only a part of the answer, if there even is one. I have been messing with and fixing cues for like 35 years and have seen a number of different methods of joint construction.

In terms of an ivory joint it can be made as just a sleeve with about 75% of the contact area being the end grain of the wood the butt is made from. I have also seen some that were a solid slug of ivory basically mounted on the screw.

Most commonly they are made like a ferrule with 3/4 of the ivory bored out and the top capped with the screw sticking out. It may be slipped on or threaded on. In my mind like ferrules, the construction method is the most important part that may create a differences in how it plays and not so much the material.
 
Ivory Joint Hit??? - don't let the question fool you there's no such thing. There's wood to wood and a piloted joint mostly steel. A steel has a softer hit than a wood to wood which generally is a stiff hitting joint. Either system can have an ivory. If someone wanted a white joint, ivory is the prettiest, the most expensive and the least durable as it can crack.

If you are really looking for the hit feel it's not just in the joint. A lot has to do with the tip as well. But the tip and the joint is what defines a cues hit and feel. The rest are just bragging rights.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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The cue I'm getting made has a Piloted Ivory Joint with NO steel sleeve.
 
Loosely rolled and preferably grounded

I always throw in a little tobacco to helps things burn evenly.

There is a difference with the hit of an ivory joint. But like others said joint contruction has more to do with it than anything else. Having said that, a solid piloted ivory joint will play very nicely. You'll get a lot of response. A very nice "thunk" when you hit the ball
 
I know this has been discussed 1.5 Million times, but what is the difference between the hit of a Ivory Jointed cue and a Juma or Stainless?
If you could just point me in the direction of the last thread that discussed this topic that will be sufficient.

Thanks

I don't think anybody knows exactly what makes a cue hit well, but the joint material is probably low on the list. Random blind tests have proven players can't tell the difference between joint material based on the hit. My estimation is that any hard joint material, properly mated, aligned and tightened, will adequately transmit the vibration from the shaft to the handle wood for the purpose of feel. Much of the hit is sound anyway, and most of that comes from the tip end of the cue.

Ivory is naturally a poor joint material. It's hard but rigid and brittle compared to thermoset plastics like Juma and Micarta. The best ivory joints are made by cue maker's who work around this inherent weakness. My Josswest has an ivory joint that is really a thin veneer of ivory laminated to a black linen rod. Because the linen rod is stable and strong, the ivory joint and butt survive taps and jolts. JW has been careful not to wrap ivory around a tight wood core, which will expand and pop it.

Ivory is now a problem material. While desirable in high end collectible cues for valuation purposes, it limits what you can do as far as selling and shipping the cues.

I would say micarta and juma are great joint materials if you prefer the look of ivory. They are durable and impact resistant. Just look for a material that will last for many years without yellowing. Unless you're on order for a Szamboti, in my opinion, forget ivory.
 
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I don't think anybody knows exactly what makes a cue hit well, but the joint material is probably low on the list. Random blind tests have proven players can't tell the difference between joint material based on the hit. My estimation is that any hard joint material, properly mated, aligned and tightened, will adequately transmit the vibration from the shaft to the wood for the purpose of feel. Much of the hit is sound anyway, and most of that comes from the tip end of the cue.

Ivory is naturally a poor joint material. It's hard but rigid and brittle compared to thermoset plastics like Juma and Micarta. The best ivory joints are made by cue maker's who work around this inherent weakness. My Josswest has an ivory joint that is really a thin veneer of ivory laminated to a black linen rod. Because the linen rod is stable and strong, the ivory joint and butt survive taps and jolts. JW has been careful not to wrap ivory around a tight wood core, which will expand and pop it.

Ivory is now a problem material. While desirable in high end collectible cues for valuation purposes, it limits what you can do as far as selling and shipping the cues.

I would say micarta and juma are great joint materials if you prefer the look of ivory. They are durable and impact resistant. Just look for a material that will last for many years without yellowing. Unless you're on order for a Szamboti, in my opinion, forget ivory.
what he said..^^^^^
meucci did a "blind " test of cues with different joints covered up and asked pros what type of joint is it and can you poick out YOUR CUE??
nobody could tell one joint from another or pick out there cue...:eek:
my recollection
///icbw
 
what he said..^^^^^
meucci did a "blind " test of cues with different joints covered up and asked pros what type of joint is it and can you poick out YOUR CUE??
nobody could tell one joint from another or pick out there cue...:eek:
my recollection
///icbw
I will take your word for the test results but I can tell the difference between a steel joint and a flat faced wood to wood joint. The two hits are not even close.
 
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I will take your word for the test results but I can tell the difference between a steel joint flat faced wood to wood joint. The two hits are not even close.

wish we could do a "blind test" and see the results
its not personal
maybe you can ....maybe you cant....
just sayin
:)
 
wish we could do a "blind test" and see the results
its not personal
maybe you can ....maybe you cant....
just sayin
:)
The first Ivory joint I played with was a Martin cue and I loved it. That was like 45 years ago. Over the years I have had a lot of ivory joint cues as well as wood to wood phenolic style and they are not close to the ping of most steel joint cues.
 
wish we could do a "blind test" and see the results
its not personal
maybe you can ....maybe you cant....
just sayin
:)
The first Ivory joint I played with was a Martin cue and I loved it. That was like 45 years ago. Over the years I have had a lot of ivory joint cues as well as wood to wood phenolic style and they are not close to the ping of most steel joint cues.

I like a very hard tips and that may add to the difference as well making it easier to define.
 
A while back, Murray Tucker posted an article summarizing the results of the McChesney blind experiment from 1991. The link to his post is provided. I believe these results are just below random guessing, but probably not significantly so. Unless someone finds a flaw in the test, I don't see what another blind test would prove.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3286694&postcount=18
 
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I've run into a few ivory jointed cues in my lifetime I wish I had the cash to have bought.

MOST of them had a Szamboti-style tight fitting piloted ivory joint. In fact,two of them WERE Szams,one Gus and one Barry.

Other than the Szams,the next one I liked was a modded Schon,that John Hager had.

One of them was a Phillippi,but was made as a Gina tribute or copy.

One of them was a pretty plain Scott Whisler 4 point. That cue had a tight fitting piloted joint,but a Radial pin.

The other was a Cognoscenti. That cue had Joe's Titanium pin instead of the usual whitish-green G-10,and flat faced ivory collars.

I wouldn't have trusted breaking with them,Tommy D.
 
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