Ivory

What a slanted post.....

Ivory is without a doubt - in my opinion - the best ferrule material there is. It's very sleek, does not get dirty, and has a hit you cannot replicate.

I own many cues, and all but one (maybe two) have ivory ferrules, and I've never killed an elephant. Guess that means you don't have to kill to have one....

It's not brittle, and like anything - yes, it can be subject to crack. My playing cue today has an ivory ferrule on it - with no pad. I use it to play, break, and jump with. I do have a pretty hard break as well.

I've never broken, cracked, or damaged an ivory ferrule.
I second that motion. The biggest thing to me other than feel is the fact chalk soesnt stain it like other ferrul material. I too have never cracked or broken an ivory ferrul, although i ahve shattered both a phenolic 1 piece tip on my break cue(as well as the shaft it was on) and I broke in 2 a linen ferrul. No substitue for ivory.
 
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I like ivory ferrules, but even more so..............ivory joints. AND, I don't mind the fact that an elephant had to die (LEGALLY) for me to enjoy my ivory. Datz just duh way tiz my friend. Yes, it would be nice if animals didn't have to die in order to accomodate our lifestyles, but not in this world.

how long have you been a self-centered POS? yeah, dems fitin werds......

Conservationist groups are warning of a recent increase in the poaching of elephants in Kenya. Groups say that the trend reflects the UN's approval of a one-time ivory sale late last year, and a growing demand for ivory in China.

Amboseli National Park, which lies along the border with Tanzania in Kenya's south, under the shadow of Mount Kilimanjaro, is renowned for its herds of elephants. The park has long been seen as a safe environment for the animal.

But according to a recent report from the Amboseli Trust for Elephants, at least 19 elephants have been killed around the park in the past year. And Amboseli is not alone. Five elephants have been killed in Tsavo National Park, in the southeast. And according to Patrick Omondi, head of species management at the Kenya Wildlife Service, which runs Kenya's national parks, elephant poaching more than doubled last year.

"Within the last one year, we have seen an upsurge in poaching in many parts of Kenya, even in some of the parks that have never experienced poaching during this international ban period," said Omondi. "Last year alone, we lost 98 elephants for their ivory compared to 48 that we lost in 2007, so it more or less doubled."

For Omondi, and others, the reason for the increase is no mystery. The international ivory trade has been banned for the past two decades. But last year, the United Nations, under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species, approved a one-time auction of ivory from four southern African countries - Botswana, Namibia, South Africa and Zimbabwe - with large, stable populations of elephants. The auction is the second, along with a previous sale in 1997, since the ban went into effect.

The ivory for sale, of over 100 tons, was officially drawn from existing stockpiles. But many observers feared that opening up any sort of market for ivory would encourage illegal poaching.

"It has always gone hand in hand," said Alice Owen, the East Africa representative of the Born Free Foundation. "If there is sale of ivory then people want it, even up here in East Africa where they haven't approved sales."

Also driving the increase in poaching, many believe, is a growing demand for ivory in China, which was allowed to participate in last year's auction for the first time.

"Chinese have been involved in a lot of smuggling," said Omondi. "In fact, in the last year we have arrested so many Chinese nationals with illegal ivory in our international border.

This week China's foreign ministry released a statement reaffirming its commitment to the international ban on ivory trading. But the government's statement that it places posters warning against ivory trading in the consular sections of its embassies in Africa itself suggests that a problem exists.

Many observers fear that the threat of poaching could be worse in other parts of Africa, such as Chad and the Democratic Republic of Congo, where enforcement efforts are not as sophisticated as in Kenya and where record-keeping is not as extensive.

The current threat is not on the same scale as in past decades. In the 1970's and 1980's, the world's elephant population dropped by hundreds of thousands, with Kenya hit particularly hard, before a ban on the ivory trade was established in 1989. But still, Omondi says the trend is worrying.

"We have not reached the levels of the 1970's and 1980's, but the rate at which the demand for ivory is growing across the continent and I believe in the world is worrying and is something that requires collaborative efforts," he said.
 
Same here never no issue's with Ivory here, I also use the fibre tip pads so when it comes time to re-place at tip i dont have to sand into the the ivory. When it comes time to replace the tip.
 
Ivory Ferrules

I have played with Ivory ferrules for over 17 years and have never had one crack. I like the way Ivory plays and not having to worry about chalk stains is just an added bonus.

I have played, jumped and breaked with Ivory ferrules and not once have I had any problems with them.
 
how long have you been a self-centered POS? yeah, dems fitin werds......

I ate a hamburger yesterday, that came from a cow that was killed/slaughtered. Does that make me a POS? Don't give me the it's different because it is a food speech.
 
For those who have used them, are they worth the $$$ to have one installed plus a new tip? I have two shafts for my cue and Im just curious about experimenting with one shaft to see if I like the hit of ivory or not.

My friend, you're just gonna have to open up the wallet and do it to really find out. It also depends on what kind of player you are. You might be an LD man, and if you are, I don't recommend it. Also, if you are not an experienced player, you won't even be able to comprehend the difference.

Apparently, you are not satisfied with what you got, otherwise, you wouldn't be asking these questions. I say go for it if that's what you truly want.

Me, personally, I play with nothing but ivory joint and ferrule. Check out my cue:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=152984

To me, I prefer the hit and feel of ivory compared to any other material. I also like the way I can wipe off the chalk easily. I use a tip pad and a Kamui Hard tip. I have been using ivory for some time now, and have never seen issues. Some will rag on ivory all day long because of elephants, but there is a ton of the legal stuff around and it simply a part of pool. Yes, there are other options, like buckhorn, buffalo horn, and fiber materials, but I have tried them all and ivory is superior to them all. The feel, the properties, the look, the classiness of it... how it machines, it is king.

Some key things to remember: Don't break too hard off center with it, and don't leave it it extreme temperatures. Some baby oil theirs, I don't and have never had a problem. Ivory is not soft like people think. It is a hard material. It just doesn't flex like the other ferrules. Deflects differently too. I personally enjoy deflection and can use it to my advantage all day long. It did take me a minute to get used to it, and at first, I did not appreciate it for what it was, but after time, I fell in love with it. I do like micarta and buck horn, but they have way different characteristics.

You will have to go to the extra lengths to take care of it, but that is just the same as you would treat any of your possessions.... handled with care.
 
There are no advantages to ivory and as a matter of fact, there are distinct dis-advantages.

Ivory is heavy, therefore it produces more QB deflection.

That depends on how the ferrule is made. They do not produce any more deflection than any other material.

It's brittle and subject to crack.

I have replaced many synthetic ferrules because of cracking than I have Ivory ferrules.

You have to kill an elephant to get it.

The Ivory cuemakers use today came from Ivory that was produced over 30 years ago. No cuemaker I know would ever buy Ivory from a poacher.


The pad used under the tip serves a purpose of protecting the ivory ferrule because it is brittle.

I have never used a pad under my Ivory ferrules because it is not necessary

No, it's not worth the money or the bad Karma.

Lots of players know that Ivory hits great, does not get dirty like some synthetics and is well worth the money. There is no bad karma associated with Ivory inless you sell ferrules made from synthetic material.
 
Bady oil on an ivory ferrrul ? I never heard of this what does it do for it ?
 
Bady oil on an ivory ferrrul ? I never heard of this what does it do for it ?

I've heard of this before. Apparently, ivory is subject to moisture and temp at extremems. I've heard of rubbing them down with baby oil to help them from becoming brittle.

dave
 
I ate a hamburger yesterday, that came from a cow that was killed/slaughtered. Does that make me a POS? Don't give me the it's different because it is a food speech.

Last I checked cows weren't in danger of being hunted to extinction.

you may not be a POS for eating a hamburger, but for using cows in this arguement ..........

use your imagination.


It's really dissapointing to see that people are still stuck in the stone age.
 
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I personally don't care for ivory(ferrules or joints) but not for any of the reasons mentioned. They just always seemed a little "soft" for my tastes. But I can assure you, if it DID lend itself to the hit I prefer, I would not hesitate to use it. However, Ivory butt caps are the Shiznizzle! I'm also really fond of ivory inlays like stars, diamonds, and even points.

So elephants get older right? many die natural deaths right? What about the ivory from them? Is it still soaked in "bad karma"? The cow analogy might be reaching a bit but to assume that all of the ivory on the market was harvested from brutally slaughtered animals is also a stretch IMO
 
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ivory doesn't do a damned thing to improve your game. you people are no better than the human garbage who did this:
poached-ele.jpg
 
Last I checked cows weren't in danger of being hunted to extinction.

you may not be a POS for eating a hamburger, but for using cows in this arguement ..........

use your imagination.


It's really dissapointing to see that people are still stuck in the stone age.

Right...becuase "sausage" is doing something to help with the extinction of elephants. Cows are still killed and slaughtered legally and illegaly hence my sarcasm response from his post. Being stuck in the stone age is sort of a weak response as well...I don't condone illegal poaching of elephants, but will also be willing to have ivory in my cues...guess that makes me a POS.
 
ivory doesn't do a damned thing to improve your game. you people are no better than the human garbage who did this:
poached-ele.jpg

You are right, I am sorry. I feel bad now. I think I will go out and destroy all the ivory I own and spread messages about how ivory users are human garbage.
 
ivory doesn't do a damned thing to improve your game. you people are no better than the human garbage who did this:
I'm so glad you take the high road and make like comparisons... You're so reasonable!!!

-Ross
yes, that's sarcasm...
 
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how long have you been a self-centered POS? yeah, dems fitin werds......

You like to quote other's, I guess I can too.... Credit - Thomas Wayne

http://www.cuemaster.com/RSB/ivory.htm

THINGS YOU DON’T KNOW ABOUT ELEPHANTS AND THEIR IVORY:
__________________________________________________ ____________
Elephants are herbivores, surviving on abrasive plant matter available in their natural habitat. In the process of chewing this plant matter, the elephant tends to wear out its teeth at a rather rapid rate. While a good set of teeth might last us 60 years or more, the elephant goes through a set of teeth in 6 - 10 years. When these teeth are worn out, they are replaced by a new set, allowing for a ‘fresh start’. But there is a limit. Elephants have the capacity for only SIX sets of teeth. When the last set wears out, the elephant, by this time large and masterful, dies a slow and unpleasant death by starvation. Period.

Elephants have no natural enemies; disease and starvation are the only limitations to their continued success in the wild. For this reason, a well protected herd can grow quite rapidly, in fact TOO rapidly for most habitats.

Elephants compete with man for land. As the human populations of the African countries grow, the elephants have increasingly less space to call home. With no commercial value currently attached to the elephant herds, there is little incentive for the local inhabitants to preserve this majestic ‘land hog’.

Elephant Ivory has NEVER sold for more in the United States than it does right now; $110 per pound is about the maximum one has to pay for top quality tusks. By contrast, the Asian countries have ALWAYS been willing to pay premium prices, as high as $200 or more, for the same ivory. This ivory is used for, among other things, the personal "name chops" with which these cultures like to "sign" (ink stamp) their names, hence the term. Because they often cut the ivory into such small pieces, aging and dryness is not so important to them. Logistically, it is much easier to smuggle poached ivory into the Asian countries than to the U.S.; I am unaware of any case of elephant ivory being smuggled into THIS country.
WHO HAS BANNED THE INTERNATIONAL TRADE IN IVORY?

The international trade in wildlife is regulated by the Convention on the International Trade in Endangered Species (C.I.T.E.S.). Formed in 1973, this multinational (more than 100 countries) division of the UN, housed in Switzerland, meets every two years to determine guidelines for governing the protection of endangered species. In 1990, C.I.T.E.S. officially changed the status of the African elephant from ‘Appendix 2’ (protected/threatened) to ‘Appendix 1’ (endangered). This change banned all international trade in elephant ivory, though the United States had been under a self-imposed ban since 1989.

EVERBODY LOVES ELEPHANTS, SO WHAT COULD BE WRONG WITH BANNING COMMERCIAL TRADE IN ELEPHANT IVORY?

Unfortunately for the elephant, the ban has hurt more than it has helped. When the president of Kenya (Daniel arap Moi) burned a large pile of elephant tusks on international television in 1989, he set fire to a movement for a worldwide ivory ban directed at stopping poaching. While this was fine for the countries of East Africa, where poaching actually WAS a problem, it has spelled disaster for the elephants of southern Africa. Three countries in particular - Zimbabwe, South Africa, and Botswana - had, for over 20 years, successfully managed to INCREASE the size of their herds through careful game management.

Remember the leading causes for elephant deaths: disease and starvation? In a well managed herd, these animals are culled (killed and removed from the herd) in order to allow the rest of the herd to thrive. In fact, most of the news footage of "wanton elephant slaughter by poachers" seen on ‘nature shows’ around the time of the ban was actually film of government-managed herd thinning programs. Not coincidentally, after culling, the commercially desirable ivory, hides and meat are then sold on the open market. Or at least they WERE sold, until the ban took effect. The successful game management programs of these exemplary countries were paid for, in abundance, through the sale of salvaged elephant products. By 1992, for example, Zimbabwe had culled more than 44,000 elephants over a 25 year period, yet their herds continued to increase in numbers. South Africa and Botswana have similar tracks records. In fact, by 1992 there were more than 650,000 elephants in the wild! Never before in history has a species with such huge numbers been labeled "endangered".

Now, the problem is land. The unchecked growth of elephant herds has collided squarely with the humans’ growing need for living space. With this conflict, the ability of these countries to manage their herds has all but evaporated. Botswana’s planned schedule of limiting its elephant population at about 55,000 has become financially impossible. The success of any game management plan hinges on its finances. It is very hard to justify using continually larger tracts of land to house an abundant species that isn’t even allowed to pay for its own keep. And you can just about forget about defending against poachers. Since poachers are most generally shot to death on sight, they tend to fight back pretty ferociously. It’s kind of hard to find game officers willing to risk their lives battling heavily armed ivory thieves for minimum wage!

SO, WHAT THE HELL AM I SAYING HERE, ANYWAY?

What I am saying here is, Laura - with all due respect - your plea for cuemakers to stop using ivory, while clearly quite passionate is, in a word: misguided. African elephants are not only NOT in danger of extinction, at this point they are actually suffering from OVER-population. Meanwhile, poaching is under control, but not for much longer. These African countries are running out of resources, and when something finally has to give, it’s going to be the elephants. Without the income from salvaged elephant products, these successful game management programs are doomed. It’s just a matter of time.

Your suggestion that "the US has recently lifted an ivory embargo against Japan" is way off base. In fact, C.I.T.E.S. has just recently approved (the U.S. opposed this) a ONE-TIME bulk sale of elephant ivory to Japan to help satisfy that market demand and to defray southern African game management expenses. This ivory is from the culled stockpiles that countries like Zimbabwe have collected and stored since the ban was imposed. The amount allowed was significantly smaller than the Southern African Centre for Ivory Marketing (SACIM) had requested. This highly controlled and greatly limited trade agreement, while merely a ‘drop in the bucket’, has been hailed by the southern African conservationists as a first step in the right direction.

As for your statement that: "Using Ivory encourages poaching", well, allow me to respectfully disagree:

Ivory can be found in the finest of all art forms, both ancient and modern. In a multitude of examples throughout history, it has created the greatest impact of any material used. It is really only a recent fad to look at ivory as a negative thing. This frenzied ‘knee-jerk’ reaction to sensationalistic journalism - at its worst - has resulted in a political climate wherein the African elephant might finally be destroyed by the very forces that would seek to "save" it. Your argument that "using [ancient, legal] ivory encourages poaching" is, at best, naive. It presupposes that the entire population of the earth can be persuaded by a few idealistic ‘tree-huggers’. Why do you think synthetic ferrule materials are made ivory colored? One of the more popular materials for this purpose is even called "Ivorine 3"! Laura, are your ferrules a non-ivory color (say black phenolic, for example)? No? Well, aren’t you worried that you’ll help feed the public desire for ivory with your look-alike substitute? :-] People want ivory. It’s that simple. The solution to protecting the elephant is to REGULATE ivory use, not ban it. In that way, the elephant can fund (in excess) its own survival. But without the regulated sale of salvaged ivory, the elephant may ultimately be doomed.

As for cuemakers, you can sleep peacefully on that issue. Any cuemaker foolish enough to use fresh ("green") ivory in a cue will get what he so richly deserves. As a general rule, if I can’t document that a tusk was taken (at a minimum) BEFORE I was born, I won’t buy it.

If you REALLY want to do something to ‘save’ the elephant, perhaps you’d be willing to send large sums of money to some of these south African countries to help fund their game management programs. I’ll be happy to provide you with the addresses...

Thomas Wayne
 
You are right, I am sorry. I feel bad now. I think I will go out and destroy all the ivory I own and spread messages about how ivory users are human garbage.

Let me help you out bud, just send me all your ivory, and I will take care of it, lol. j/k.:thumbup: Trust me, I will destroy it, if you dont believe me, just watch me play with it and you will see good ivory gone bad!:eek: lol!


Joe
 
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