Ivory

Outdated opinion?

Actually its not at all like that but thanks for the uninformed and outdated opinions.

:)

This is your opinion, which you have every right to hold. But surveys show that most folks tend to agree with Pangit on this one. This is why ivory is banned in most countries. Many of us just aren't into killing without a damn good reason.

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
 
So I saw someone recently posting about all of the restrictions on ivory. Are you saying that when I come back in the country with my cues in my personal case, that they will be confiscated? That's ridiculous! Just because I have an ivory hop ring?

Has anyone here come and gone from the U.S. with ivory in their cues? You can't tell me there aren't people that havent done that. Has anyone here known anyone to have a cue confiscated? Anyone have any horror stories? I've never heard any. ANYONE?

R,

Greg

Where are you coming from ? I just flew from Korea to the states my cue was in my checked bags no issue whats so ever i have alot of ivory on my cue.

As long as your cue is in your checked bag there will be no issue to fly even when you go thru customs screening in the states they are checking your passport and info not whats in your bag. When you get thats customs slip during the flight do not declear anything .
 
Here is another thing he is traveling with a cue that allready has ivory inlaid in the cue. He is not traveling with an ivory tusk or a fist full of ivory sort to say in his crouch.

Like i said check the cues in the bag no issues and one more thing i happen to stuff two bottles of shaving cream in the same bag i got called back and was told to empty the bag and discard one bottle of shaving cream.
 
Antfarm, I should have mentioned that in the other thread I did reply that yes, you can be fined and incarcerated for importing or exporting ivory. The wild and sweeping horse manure about killing elephants so we can have pool cues :rolleyes: gets us all off track. We should know better than to try and correct them by now.

My new cue will be made with Elk/Deer antler instead so I can take it with me on my travels. Because many people, including customs agents, don't understand that you'd be silly to have green ivory in a cue as it would quickly shrink/pop/crack they think you traveled to Africa yourself and killed the elephant. There's not much that can be done about that kind of ignorance and arguing with a customs agent is an easy way to ensure yourself an invasive search.

You are best to stay away from it if you plan to travel with your cue.
 
This is your opinion, which you have every right to hold. But surveys show that most folks tend to agree with Pangit on this one. This is why ivory is banned in most countries. Many of us just aren't into killing without a damn good reason.

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor

That same "survey" would show that most people are completely uninformed and base their options purely on myth, rumour and whatever controlling political aganda has the loudest voice at the time rather than any shred of fact or truth. ;)

And yes, that is my worthless opinion.







<------been to many ivory originating countries and involved in both sides of its use and protection for nearly 20 years now.
 
My new cue will be made with Elk/Deer antler instead so I can take it with me on my travels.
Exactly. If you expect to travel overseas with a cue, buy one that doesn't contain ivory.
 
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Exactly. If you expect to travel overseas with a cue, have one made that doesn't contain ivory.

That won't always resolve the issue. Because the law states that if an agent suspects a product to be illegal, they are them permitted by law to confiscate and often times the process of proving that your material in question is not illegal involves stripping the cue of the product in order to take a sample. I once had a pressed pigskin lather wrap removed from a cue in order to prove that it was not ringtail. Of course once they proved it wasn't ringtail, I got my wrapless butchered up cue back. Keep in mind, if they decided that if they want to test your joint, ferrules, wraps, inlays or whatever........it often means damage or destruction in order to get a sample. And once proven wrong, the authorities by law are not responsible to damage done during the process of extracting a sample.
dave
 
As long as your cue is in your checked bag there will be no issue to fly even when you go thru customs screening in the states they are checking your passport and info not whats in your bag. When you get thats customs slip during the flight do not declear anything .

I'm glad you didn't have your cue seized, but this is bad information. I worked with Customs in the aviation industry for 7 years and I can tell you this is like playing Russian Roulette and saying, "well I made it, so it's safe". The fines and imprisonment are real.

CITES certificates are indeed hard to fill out, have approved, and understood by the agents themselves. If you absolutely MUST travel with an ivory cue, hire an import/export lawyer and have them fill out the certificate.
 
That won't always resolve the issue. Because the law states that if an agent suspects a product to be illegal, they are them permitted by law to confiscate and often times the process of proving that your material in question is not illegal involves stripping the cue of the product in order to take a sample. I once had a pressed pigskin lather wrap removed from a cue in order to prove that it was not ringtail. Of course once they proved it wasn't ringtail, I got my wrapless butchered up cue back. Keep in mind, if they decided that if they want to test your joint, ferrules, wraps, inlays or whatever........it often means damage or destruction in order to get a sample. And once proven wrong, the authorities by law are not responsible to damage done during the process of extracting a sample.
dave
I was going to suggest avoiding anything that could be mistaken for ivory, but wasn't sure how far many people would be willing to go. On the other hand, none of us would want to have the experience you did. If I had to travel overseas with a cue, I'd probably get a BEM plain jane with linen wrap and a ferrule that shows a weave pattern in it.
 
I disagree, beem jumping from country to country with this cue for a few years now. Not one issue its not russian roulette i even went thru navy customs a few times Dan Janes said i will not have an issue with overseas travel and his word had been gold to me.
 
Again, I'm glad nothing bad has happened so far. I would never want the responsibility of having told someone, "it's no problem" and they end up in jail because a customs officer takes a hard line. The fact remains it is illegal to transport it. A CITES certificate filled out incorrectly can land you in jail too. You only have to get caught once; Atlas Billiards got off lucky.

I've no problem with ivory in cues because I educated myself on the subject. I do have a problem with poaching. I also have a problem with the uneducated saying one is related to another (not you). I don't transport my ivory cue because I understand the risks involved and it is simply not worth it.
 
100%

Again, I'm glad nothing bad has happened so far. I would never want the responsibility of having told someone, "it's no problem" and they end up in jail because a customs officer takes a hard line. The fact remains it is illegal to transport it. A CITES certificate filled out incorrectly can land you in jail too. You only have to get caught once; Atlas Billiards got off lucky.

I've no problem with ivory in cues because I educated myself on the subject. I do have a problem with poaching. I also have a problem with the uneducated saying one is related to another (not you). I don't transport my ivory cue because I understand the risks involved and it is simply not worth it.

Key word (educate) yourself so you know the truth.
MMike
 
Apparently you don't hunt with elephant tranquilizers as do most ivory poachers.

In other threads opponents of restrictions on ivory trading claim that supporters of restrictions are carelessly taking food out of the mouths of African people who are desperately poor. But they can afford tranquilizer guns and tranquilizer darts? Could all you 'Buffalo Bills' get together and get your story straight?

By the way- those tranquilizer darts are working just great:
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...urce=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=nJmdT82QGseyiQL30dyOAQ
 
Exactly. If you expect to travel overseas with a cue, buy one that doesn't contain ivory.

If you are a collector of certain makers, that isn't possible sometimes. I keep the big ivory cues at home in America. But I do have a couple of cues with an ivory hop ring. I'd be pissed if that was why they were confiscated.

R,

Greg
 
Where are you coming from ? I just flew from Korea to the states my cue was in my checked bags no issue whats so ever i have alot of ivory on my cue.

As long as your cue is in your checked bag there will be no issue to fly even when you go thru customs screening in the states they are checking your passport and info not whats in your bag. When you get thats customs slip during the flight do not declear anything .

Thanks Jose, that's what I'm planning on.

R,

Greg
 
I used to live in Japan and sold high end cues on the side. It was always easy to buy a cue from the US and ship it to Japan. However, shipping a cue from Japan back to the states was always risky (but possible), and quite a hassle. Nowdays, I would suggest way to much of a risk to make it worth while. There is such thing is legally obtained ivory, however that paperwork stays with the cuemaker, and doesn not go with the cue. So trying to prove that the ivory in your cue came from a batch that was legally obtained and documented is pretty much impossible. Now I know several pro players that play internationally take their cues overseas and return home with them often and usually without any hassle. As a matter of fact, when I made the move back to the US from Japan, I brought all my cues with me in my luggage without anybody even looking at them. However, if they had wanted to take a look, it is with the law, and if they suspect any ivory or other illegal by products, by law they can keep the cue and you're screwed.

For those of you that are so quick to slam those that prefer ivory I say don't talk with your mouth full. The process of 'harvesting' beef, pork, fish, and any other animal by product is equally as 'cruel' as the process of harvesting ivory. So I find it amusing that people can slam others for favoring ivory while they sit there behind theor pc monitor chomping down on chicarones or hamburgers.
First of all, because of the laws that are in place, the ivory you will find in cue makers from the United States will all be pre ban ivory that was obtained either before the ban was in place, or by legal means after the ban was in place. And I assure you all of us "savage" ivory lovers support the ivory ban and what the law is intended to accomplish.
The human race, simply because of how we've encroached and populated the world, has unfortunately been handed (by ourselves) the responsibility of managing and controling wildlife. And in some cases, that means harvesting. There are some species of wildlife that, were we to outlaw harvesting or hunting, their numbers would greatly exceed the resources needed to maintiain their healthy prosperity, and as result, many more numbers than harvesting, would end up dying as a result of starvations and disease.
Do some research before you start throwing stones. And I will always say to those that are against the use of wildlife by products..................Against the use of ivory? Then don't use it!

WORD!

Too much logic and intelligence here Dave. I think this will go right over Pangit's head. WHOOSH! :rolleyes:
 
It was several years ago, but I was sent a cue from overseas using DHL with ivory inlays. Customs sent the cue to Fish and Wildlife in Alaska. I received the cue a few weeks later and it was visible where they penetrated the finish on the cue to reach one of ivory inlays. Either what was supposed to be ivory was bone.....or they could not authenticate it as ivory........but it can happen.......on the other hand I have received ivory cues with no issues through USPS International Express........it's a craps shoot, can't say I would do it again.
 
About ten years ago I shipped 48 cues (four 12 x 24 Porper cases) to Japan for a cue show and tournament.

When the cues were shipped back to me they went through Anchorage and were held up by Fish & Game.

Cues with ivory, mother of pearl and exotic wraps were in question.

They wanted me to supply them with the species of shell and what ocean the mother of pearl came from. Five of the cues were Szambotis and Balabushkas with MOP.

After three months they returned my cues but confiscated seven of them. Six for ivory and one for a lizard skin wrap. They returned the MOP cues.

The seven cues that were confiscated and eventually destroyed cost me a total of $23,000.

The fact that the cues originated in the U.S. and only went on a two week vacation to Japan made no difference.

They could have prosecuted me, serious fines and possible jail time.

The customs officer who first contacted me said the only reason he inspected the cues was that they were valued at $37 per cue and this threw up a red flag. He told me the Fish & Game dude sits at a desk next to his and asked to look at the cues, that's when the ivory, MOP and exotic skins came into question. He told me if the cues were valued at $200 - $300 each he wouldn't have looked at them.

The 23K loss was a tough bullet to bite but it could have been a lot worse. The cues they kept were all made by contemporary cuemakers and could be replaced. All of the irreplaceable cues by dead cuemakers were returned. I still have the shafts for those cues as they only kept the butts.

During the span of many years surrounding the time this transpired I shipped overseas weekly and had zero problems. Shipping cues with banned substances (maybe even certain woods) today, across national borders, is a risky proposition at best.
 
"Pre-ban "Ivory" or not, make all the excuses you want. Still can't "jusifiy" it?

Seriously, how can any right minded person, "excuse" it????

And it certainly doesn't go above my head...I'm keenly aware.
 
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