JA vs MD push out after the break match.

[CJ Wiley]

I will always recommend that the current "pool world" stay exactly the same.

CJ you are right on the money with everything you have said. You were the best american player at one time and its not like you are in your prime right now and just trying to convince people of something that might give you an edge. You are right the game is going to nowhere right now. Whats in place isn't working.(and ****ing bonus ball isn't the answer either) jump sticks are another joke.. it takes a whole lot of talent to hit a ball with a sledge hammer and make it hop NOT!!! the jump stick almost took kicking(a real art) out of the game. I find it unbelievable that someone who played at your level and with your experience is having such a hard time getting through to some of these people.

double post

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Wiley
No, I'd love to compete again playing Roll Out. It's like anything else, the beauty is in the complexity of things. I have an arsenal that I don't ever get to use that makes the game so much more fun for me and players like Johnny, Rodney, Sigel, Earl, etc.

Imagine a concert pianist that could only use 30% of the keys....imagine an artist that could only use 30% of their colors.

This is how we feel about the "new" style of 9 Ball, it's just maybe 30% of what it could be if they just played the right rules. There's nothing lucky or easy about 9 Ball, it's evolved into a carnival game to speed up tournaments.

The players never had a say so in the rules changing, faster cloth, and jump sticks sneaking into the game. For the most part the players just kept quiet, often times being paid to endorse these products until the game became what it is today.

The Game is not very happy, and ohhhhhh, if it could only speak. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[CJ Wiley]

I will always recommend that the current "pool world" stay exactly the same.

CJ you are right on the money with everything you have said. You were the best american player at one time and its not like you are in your prime right now and just trying to convince people of something that might give you an edge. You are right the game is going to nowhere right now. Whats in place isn't working.(and ****ing bonus ball isn't the answer either) jump sticks are another joke.. it takes a whole lot of talent to hit a ball with a sledge hammer and make it hop NOT!!! the jump stick almost took kicking(a real art) out of the game. I find it unbelievable that someone who played at your level and with your experience is having such a hard time getting through to some of these people.

Yes, the roll out is more like a chess match and brings out far more shots and strategy than the one foul (checkers) version. The demographic for chess type games is certainly different that the "checkers demographic," so as far as the current streaming video services, I'd advice them to keep doing what they're doing. I'm sure they're enjoying a level of success.

My incentive to get back into the game is the Game its self. I believe there's another demographic that will appreciate the sophistication of the Game and will respect "call pocket" and {roll out} strategic exchanges more than the "break and run out" game that for me is redundant and unimpressive.

To do this the production also has to be upscale and impressive to attract this particular type demographic. I have an extensive background in the hospitality industry and it's the same thing. People won't go to a fast food restaurant for a nice steak and vice versa.

I will always recommend that the current "pool world" stay exactly the same. I think if they keep doing the same thing over and over something's bound to change and get better.

As far as my plans for the game and the future, they are different than what's currently being done.....much different. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[JCIN]

This is a funny thread because you all think that I went barking to JA. JA started this whole thing. Unfortunately there is a much bigger issue in pool besides two players playing and I spoke up about it a few weeks back. Well, lets just say He didn't like what I had to say and thats why this started.

As far as this past weekend. I know I may have said that the break was everything. Let me rephrase as Ive had a couple days to cool down. Shane played incredible. I am impressed. He barely missed a ball in two days and broke like KING KONG. I know I didn't play well at all but the reason for that is because I knew I couldn't mess up and it added a lot of pressure. But lets be honest, even if I did play my best and broke like he did, it still would have been tough to win.

I personally did not like the conditions this past weekend. I know Justin wants to build a superstar out of Shane and see packages, but the way the table is now, people are flying in for a second place check against him. With the other table it showed that he had to play well against people like JA, Busty and Orcullo with somewhat of a neutral break.

Mike I know the news gets up there late because of the snow and all but Shane has been a superstar for a minute. The conditions you played on this weekend are the same conditions as the US Open 10 Ball. The table is the same as every major pro event in the country. It was the same table as the Mosconi Cup. It is the same table you won the Ultimate 10 Ball on. Same table you won Turningstone on.

Busty and Dennis will get their shot at Shane on this table. Win or lose I bet they don't say any thing one way or another regarding the table, lights, carpet, air quality, barometric pressure or what color socks I am wearing.

Every time I hear a pro complain about Shane's break all I hear is "I'm too lazy to catch up." You dont get a consistent break on the golf course, in the mall, at the club or sitting around a poker table. If more guys spent time at the pool table instead of one of the above places we would see more guys breaking like Shane.

I wonder if the guys in Taiwan and China have this same attitude about someone being good at something ? My suspicion is they don't. Which is why they are rapidly improving.

Also whether you understand it or not YOU had more to gain this weekend than anyone. If you beat Shane in a TAR match your stock goes way up with hard core pool fans. Maybe you dont care I dont know. My point is you had an opportunity. Instead of saying "Thanks for the opportunity...and the guaranteed pay day" You come here making it sound like my whole goal in life is be Shane's publicist and that I set up the conditions to work against you. Both of which are utter bullshit.

Stay classy Mike.

 

[JCIN]

Trick is not to just build a steady stream of income but mainly to increase your following. That's what regularly scheduled shows would do. Not superstars, but players we don't see too often like Chris Bartram, Henessey, anybody who happens to be in town. Use that to pump the big matches. They can bet and/or play for a smaller purse. Casual style. Like boxing. Have two or three matches a night, undercard and main event. Increase your following this way then watch your numbers grow in the big events and advertising. get some viewer numbers. Pool industry advertising is peanuts, but get a casino hotel and you have a brand.

It's a business plan and an investment. Being in business is like going to the pool table - you never shoot until you have a plan. And keep an open mind for crying out loud. I may not know your business but I guarantee you I know my business inside and out and I've run my own for - get this - for 35 years and I'm still around. Who else can say that? I also promote events. I consider myself a skeptical pessimist in buiniess but have written more than my share of six figure checks when I thought something was a good idea. Skepticism has saved my butt many times, but it also has ocassionally cost me some opportunities. An open mind leads to new opportunities then you pounce when you spot them.

We see the big names too much anyway - not just TAR but everywhere and that dilutes as well.

You and I simply have different ideas on how to do things. Mine is based off of actually selling pool. I don't know what yours is based off of but I'm guessing if you are writing six figure checks you are not selling it to pool players.

Believe it or not A LOT of people tell me how and why I am doing it wrong sometimes in minute detail. It gets old. Really old. I used to try all kinds of things people suggested. What usually happened was I did a bunch of work, spent some money and when it was a flop I paid the bill and the idea guy shrugged his shoulders and went back to the office selling insurance or whatever.

Just streaming to stream is not the answer. Plenty of guys do that now. TAR is not about short stops playing $100 races. Thats my opinion anyway. I respect you offering suggestions all I ask is give me a little credit in that I might actually think about what it is I do.

 

[stevelomako]

I think straight pool (14.1) should be changed also.

You should have to play safe at the beginning of each new rack.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Roll Out would never be good for 10 Ball.

Do you have any you would recommend from the current Accu-Stats catalog? Currently on their site the US Open and Sands 9 Ball events go back to 1990. Do any of them play by the push out/2 foul/behind the headstring rules? I can't remember seeing one since I first started watching in the early 90s.
Thanks.

When I first started playing Pro Tournaments they spotted all balls playing one foul and this was better. The whole stategy has been "speed the game up," and I can see their reasoning behind this, I just don't happen to agree.

Speeding up a sport or game has never been a solution, and sports are generally very careful not to ruin the integrity of their sport/game in the process. The thing about the pool Game is there was not voting or consensus, the rules just changed on the spur of the moment.

I remember the whole process because it was my partner in my first pool room that was behind these changes and I agreed with them because they were NEVER intended for professional pool. Texas Express was designed for the South West/McDermott Tour, they didn't run professional tournaments.

Roll Out would never be good for 10 Ball. They came up with 10 Ball to try to "fix" the break that Corey Deuel made famous (or infamous), "the Soft Break". 10 Ball isn't the same game as 9 Ball and never will be, it's a game designed for the best breaker. Wade Crane told me that many years ago.

9 Ball with Roll Out rules has the strategy of one pocket and the shooting dynamics of rotation games. It will never work for the current streaming video, but it will work in a different scenario. Only time will tell, and the Game is the Teacher.

 

[satman]

Nice post Steve

I think straight pool (14.1) should be changed also.

You should have to play safe at the beginning of each new rack.

Lets change the one pocket break too. At least 5 balls must hit a rail, and the cue ball, or 2 object balls must pass the side pockets,,,, might as well use a break box in the middle of the table too.

 

[stevelomako]

Lets change the one pocket break too. At least 5 balls must hit a rail, and the cue ball, or 2 object balls must pass the side pockets,,,, might as well use a break box in the middle of the table too.

Thanks Sam, I have lots of good ideas.

I dont like your suggestion though, one pocket break doesn't need to be changed it should just be played one and stop.

 

[JCIN]

Thanks Sam, I have lots of good ideas.

I dont like your suggestion though, one pocket break doesn't need to be changed it should just be played one and stop.

I think we should just combine all the games.

Fifteen ball rack with all balls being banked into one pocket in numerical order. With a mandatory roll out between every ball pocketed.

Using the Disco Bucket Break of course.

Soon as that happens everyone will be shitting in high cotton.

What could go wrong ?

 

[stevelomako]

Believe it or not A LOT of people tell me how and why I am doing it wrong sometimes in minute detail. It gets old. Really old. I used to try all kinds of things people suggested. What usually happened was I did a bunch of work, spent some money and when it was a flop I paid the bill and the idea guy shrugged his shoulders and went back to the office selling insurance or whatever.

Well...if you want me to tell you what to do, all you have to do is ask.


You're my friend.

 

[stevelomako]

I think we should just combine all the games.

Fifteen ball rack with all balls being banked into one pocket in numerical order. With a mandatory roll out between every ball pocketed.

Using the Disco Bucket Break of course.

Soon as that happens everyone will be shitting in high cotton.

What could go wrong ?

Dude...I'm being serious and you're making a mockery of this.

 

[satman]

This my friend.......

I think we should just combine all the games.

Fifteen ball rack with all balls being banked into one pocket in numerical order. With a mandatory roll out between every ball pocketed.

Using the Disco Bucket Break of course.

Soon as that happens everyone will be shitting in high cotton.

What could go wrong ?

Might be the answer. Who needs bonus ball, when JC has the game to end all games. LOL.....

 

[JCIN]

Dude...I'm being serious and you're making a mockery of this.

I'm only making half a mockery.

I am seriously considering a bucket break TAR match. It couldnt possibly create anymore controversy than racking and breaking.

Seriously...consider it. I think it would be awesome. Have the wind up with the bucket (mandatory 4 circular motions with bucket) then the toss. Balls go everywhere and you start from where the cue ball stops. If you scratch on the break tough titties.

Loser of the match loses his break bucket.

 

[jhanso18]

I'm only making half a mockery.

I am seriously considering a bucket break TAR match. It couldnt possibly create anymore controversy than racking and breaking.

Seriously...consider it. I think it would be awesome. Have the wind up with the bucket (mandatory 4 circular motions with bucket) then the toss. Balls go everywhere and you start from where the cue ball stops. If you scratch on the break tough titties.

Loser of the match loses his break bucket.

This is the best thing I have read today. Thank you.

 

[jalapus logan]

Might be the answer. Who needs bonus ball, when JC has the game to end all games. LOL.....

AND this game needs to be played on an oval table with an extra pocket in the dead center of the slate.

 

[stevelomako]

I'm only making half a mockery.

I am seriously considering a bucket break TAR match. It couldnt possibly create anymore controversy than racking and breaking.

Seriously...consider it. I think it would be awesome. Have the wind up with the bucket (mandatory 4 circular motions with bucket) then the toss. Balls go everywhere and you start from where the cue ball stops. If you scratch on the break tough titties.

Loser of the match loses his break bucket.

This actually might be fun to watch, especially if you get the Mighty Earl Strickland to play the Infamous Buffalo Hunt and they both take a toke on a one hitter after every rack and have Rogan and myself do the commentary (on the sidelines not in a booth).

 

[CJ Wiley]

what happened to 9 Ball. R.I.P.

Lets change the one pocket break too. At least 5 balls must hit a rail, and the cue ball, or 2 object balls must pass the side pockets,,,, might as well use a break box in the middle of the table too.

I know we're all joking and that's fine, sometimes we have to laugh to keep from ..... Until the game gets back on TV it's "dead in the water" anyway.

As ludicrous as your post is about one pocket, that's basically what happened to 9 Ball, just in a different format and fashion. R.I.P.

 

[Chrippa]

Well this is like every new idea, interesting and worth trying out.

So just to make it clear:

If a ball is potted on the break the player at the table have to push out.
No jumpsticks
2 fouls - I don´t get this one - I read what you have written but don´t get it really, normally 3 fouls - I know, I know I miss something here because you also say just 2 instead of 1 foul - please help me out.
btw isn´t it also good to make it a call game?
I mean how often do you see a good player luck a ball in anyway?

Please help me out here and this is what I will play tomorrow.
It´s fun, TOI, pinning, pivoting and know a new game:smile:

Btw CJ, did you see my mail? Would like some input please, been doing the things I wondered about and I´m getting there....

Chrippa

 

[stevelomako]

I know we're all joking and that's fine, sometimes we have to laugh to keep from ..... Until the game gets back on TV it's "dead in the water" anyway.

As ludicrous as your post is about one pocket, that's basically what happened to 9 Ball, just in a different format and fashion. R.I.P.

You might be joking but my friends and I are "barnstorming"!

If you want to be funny while we're starting to get serious I suggest you find another thread.


If you want to be serious...I challenge you to some bucket ball, race to 21, bet what you want to win.

 

[Cornerman]

I think we should just combine all the games.

Fifteen ball rack with all balls being banked into one pocket in numerical order. With a mandatory roll out between every ball pocketed.

Using the Disco Bucket Break of course.

Soon as that happens everyone will be shitting in high cotton.

What could go wrong ?

Two things:

1. Half the people would be complaining that this isn't real pool unless it's on a 10' table with 4 1/8" pockets.

2. Dennis ends up winning (which wouldn't be wrong I guess)