JA vs MD push out after the break match.

buddha162 said:
The problem with pool is that unless you're at least a C player, you have no context to judge the skill level of pro players. IOW, unless you've spent a year or two of your life (if not more) actively trying to improve your pool game (hundreds of hours at the table), you're not going to be impressed by an Earl Strickland, or Shane or anyone else. That knowledge gap ---- the inability to recognize just how difficult the game is at the highest level ---- is what needs to be bridged if pool is to succeed with a general audience.

In contrast, pool is very complex, but worse than that, it is seemingly simple. That is a very bad combination, and doesn't translate well into a general viewing audience.
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Great post. I've been saying this for years. We need broadcasters who can get the point across to the casual fan how hard pool is so they can appreciate it. The announcers have to educate the viewers, while showing genuine enthusiasm at the skill they are witnessing. They do this in poker and other sports.

Professional Pool to the casual observer looks easy, heck most average players think they can make that shot.

Commentary has to evolve. If you get rid of Texas Express rules and go back to push out and games that require more strategy while being able to convey strategy to the public then you might be able to build a fan base. Strategy will help build suspense (double guessing what is the right play, then being able to pull the shot off) all add to the drama. But this has to explained to the viewer in a way that make them appreciate the talent it takes to do it.

Snooker fans love their sport because they know the talent required to play well. Pool fans in Asia also love it because they respect the talent it takes to play at a high level. The average Joe in the US doesn't understand how hard the game is, so there isn't that same level of respect for the game or the players.

Wow I don't post much, guess this makes up for that.
 
ipoppa33 said:
Great post. I've been saying this for years. We need broadcasters who can get the point across to the casual fan how hard pool is so they can appreciate it. The announcers have to educate the viewers, while showing genuine enthusiasm at the skill they are witnessing. They do this in poker and other sports.
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I think we can start with simple mechanics. Maybe a side by side view of a pro's stance/form vs. that of an amateur's. Educate people to spot what a pro/high level player looks like, draw the comparison of form to the golf swing. Explain that moving a stick 58" long in a straight line is fcking HARD.

I don't think it'll make much of a difference, but I think that's a place to start.

-roger
 
buddha162 said:
I think we can start with simple mechanics. Maybe a side by side view of a pro's stance/form vs. that of an amateur's. Educate people to spot what a pro/high level player looks like, draw the comparison of form to the golf swing. Explain that moving a stick 58" long in a straight line is fcking HARD.

I don't think it'll make much of a difference, but I think that's a place to start.

-roger
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To this point, overall production and production management is needed. Streamers normally don't have such a budget or staff.
 
Cornerman said:
To this point, overall production and production management is needed. Streamers normally don't have such a budget or staff.
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Yeah I was in the fantasy of pool on tv. Streams are not the answer, though I enjoy watching them.

-roger
 
Cornerman said:
I think that color commentary isn't for the people that are in the know. It's for the 98% of the other people who aren't in the know.

Let's take the example of CJ's with other sports. For those that are the 2% that really know basketball, some of the plays, moves, timeouts, etc. maybe so mundane you might wonder why the "color commentators" bother mention them. But, the other 98% who certainly know something about basketball but might now know the ins and outs benefit.

Color commentary in pool I think works the same way. Since you represent that knowledgable pool player, then the commentary may just sound like white noise. To, let's just say, an APA Sl-4/8, they might actually have the opportunity to get much more benefit out of the commentary.

Freddie
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Freddie,

I see your point to some degree. I personally would rather watch the streams with the sound off for the most part, while watching TV or listening to music.

Like CJ, I think it would be better for the viewer, non pool player or APA 4/5, to pick what they would do & then have the suspense to see if the pro is going to do the same thing or most probably not, & then have the commentator explain why the pro did it that way.

I learned almost all I know about pool from watching & playing an old gentleman play. There was no commentary telling me what he was going to do. I was in eager suspense, waiting to see what he was going to do & how. Then when he did what he did, I saw why.

Like CJ said I'm not critcizing the comentators. They're doing the best they can without any specific guidance.

We're just discussing what might make it better so it might become more entertaining & become more popular. It's rather apparent that what is happening now won't get that done.

Best Regards to You &
 
After reading this thread a quote kept coming to mind that I heard growing up. Whenever I would tell my grandfather how I thought things should be or wished it would be he would say: "Yeah and if a frog had wings he wouldnt bump his ass." Usually followed by a suggestion to get back to working on the actual task at hand.
 
JCIN said:
After reading this thread a quote kept coming to mind that I heard growing up. Whenever I would tell my grandfather how I thought things should be or wished it would be he would say: "Yeah and if a frog had wings he wouldnt bump his ass." Usually followed by a suggestion to get back to working on the actual task at hand.
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That's right.

C.J., Go get it done.
 
the good news is it can be reformatted and introduced back into the mainstream

Paul Schofield said:
That's right.

C.J., Go get it done.
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We intend to, however, like the Pledge of Allegiance, it starts with "I" and ends in "All".

Let's be fair, there's a huge difference between streaming and TV (ESPN, SPIKE FOX SPORTS, etc)....streaming is more for the "seasoned pool fans" (which is great and necessary), TV is to draw NEW people into the game and let them know pool is a viable entertainment option.
ESPN%202.png


The boost that pool enjoyed in the 90s compared to now was from the consistent ESPN exposure. The ESPN Representative told me between 96 and 98 I was on 600 International Hours of ESPN....imagine what the total was!

TV makes things "larger than life," whether it's football, baseball or golf. Pool is going through the "out of sight, out of mind phase," and the good news is it can be reformatted and introduced back into the mainstream population in a new, dynamic way. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
'The Game is the Teacher'....is and interesting quote. But in our case the Teacher, is the Game.
 
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Oh boy

So this thread devolved into the standard how to get pool back on TV discussion.

The only thing pool needs more of is ACTION.

I thought there was a chance these 2 would matchup. Wheres the negotiation? Somebody spot the breaks so there is something to watch.

Just a couple players woofing at each other.....boring
 
The game has always been perfect, the trick is to work backwards with this in mind

Island Drive said:
'The Game is the Teacher'....is and interesting quote. But in our case the Teacher, is the Game.
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The key to being a good student is listening, processing, and implementing. The game has always been perfect, the trick is to work backwards with this in mind. ;)
 
CJ Wiley said:
The key to being a good student is listening, processing, and implementing. The game has always been perfect, the trick is to work backwards with this in mind. ;)
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Look backwards within the sports context to move forward. Remove ALL negative aspects of the product, reinsert only the good, implement, then sit back and watch....what's in front of you will speak loudly both ways.
 
a metaphor of the old circus days

ENGLISH! said:
Freddie,

I see your point to some degree. I personally would rather watch the streams with the sound off for the most part, while watching TV or listening to music.

Like CJ, I think it would be better for the viewer, non pool player or APA 4/5, to pick what they would do & then have the suspense to see if the pro is going to do the same thing or most probably not, & then have the commentator explain why the pro did it that way.

I learned almost all I know about pool from watching & playing an old gentleman play. There was no commentary telling me what he was going to do. I was in eager suspense, waiting to see what he was going to do & how. Then when he did what he did, I saw why.

Like CJ said I'm not critcizing the comentators. They're doing the best they can without any specific guidance.

We're just discussing what might make it better so it might become more entertaining & become more popular. It's rather apparent that what is happening now won't get that done.

Best Regards to You &
Click to expand...

Most everyone in the general public likes the "war stories" of hustling, gambling and adventures on the road.

This is what PT Barnum used the "Caller" for, to get people in "The Tent". Once we get the public in "The Tent" there must be a way to keep a percentage of them through our production. If the numbers aren't growing, then there's something wrong with our "Caller".
qznbd00z.jpg

This is, of course a metaphor of the old circus days. Probably won't mean much to those of you that don't remember Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey.....they knew the model of success in entertainment. Many great things grew from the simple methods used in PT's amazing circus.
 
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Oh boy

So this thread devolved into the standard how to get pool back on TV discussion.

The only thing pool needs more of is ACTION.

I thought there was a chance these 2 would matchup. Wheres the negotiation? Somebody spot the breaks so there is something to watch.

Just a couple players woofing at each other.....boring
 
Okay, I figured it out. Player A breaks first.

1. Rack the 7,8,9. Player A breaks.
2. Rack the 4,5,6. Player B breaks.
3. Rack the 1,2,3. Player A breaks, and then plays from where the CB lies.

If the 9 is made on the break, it gets spotted before the player starts there turn.
 
show how the pressure effects these mechanics.

buddha162 said:
I think we can start with simple mechanics. Maybe a side by side view of a pro's stance/form vs. that of an amateur's. Educate people to spot what a pro/high level player looks like, draw the comparison of form to the golf swing. Explain that moving a stick 58" long in a straight line is fcking HARD.

I don't think it'll make much of a difference, but I think that's a place to start.

-roger
Click to expand...

This is a great place to start, and show how the pressure effects these mechanics. This all can be "thought through" and scripted to a point, it's just doing everything "improv" that isn't evolving, and it really has no room to improve.
 
I've never ask, it's all "water under the bridge"

Paul Schofield said:
What year did pool begin it's decline and what do you attribute it to?
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I got out of the Game in 99 because of "political reasons" and could see the industry was "unplugging the clock to save time". ;) In other words they chose to pull the plug on advertising the game at the pro level, and this proved to be a drastic mistake.

I'm not sure what happened to Men's Pro Pool after 2000, they apparently didn't have anyone negotiate with ESPN and something happened. I've never ask, it's all "water under the bridge" now, I just want to see the cycle reverse and start back up again.

Everything moves in cycles and pool will move up again, however, it's not going to do so without real people pushing it. I don't think the goal can be to make money right now, it must be to make a deal, probably a "barter deal" to get a TV package.
image%2010.jpg


This isn't difficult, however, it does take a comprehensive marketing plan, and I still have these things from when the Professional Cue Sports Association was doing all the ESPN events with the WPBA. It's a matter of focused work, and a strategic plan based on proven business protocol.

We're concerned about the "magic bullet", how it should be implemented, and the order of events that must happen to achieve the ideal outcome. There's negative factors, and irregardless, we do see a light at the end of pool's tunnel, let's just hope it's not a train. ;) 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
no big sponsors

Who pays the $50,000 to produce the hour long show on ESPN? Brunswick lost money on those productions. The real problem is pool tables are virtually indestructible and the used table market has 10 tables for every buyer. So very few buy a furniture table new for thousands.

We need to accept pool as the fringe sport it is and optimize what remains. More DCC style events in casinos. More opportunities for advanced amateurs to compete, maybe with pros in a handicapped forum. If I enter a pro event, I know I am dead money. Its ok by me. What if guys like me could win? Could we have 1000 player events, sure we could.
 
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