JA vs MD push out after the break match.
- Thread starter bfdlad
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So now we have a paradox as far as breaking goes. I feel that you're the underdog as far as pushing goes with two equal players who can execute and know all the moves. So would it suffice to say that playing this stipulation that johnny wants to implement you would not want to make a ball on the break?
I was there and listened to that conversation, and it was one of the few times i kept my big fat mouth shut, least thats how I remembered it
. It was awesome to be in the room listening to 2 champions discuss the yes's , no's and what if's of this topic. It wasn't a one sided agreement fest, it was a spirited discussion of why 9B should have a rule change or 2 at the pro level. Nobody was angling for a game, or had a agenda. just 2 of the best players talking it over. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts if I would have recorded that talk and the audience reading this heard what I did they just might be convinced that you and JA are right. I got lucky to be there.So needless to say if you were the breaker you almost don't want to make a ball on the break.
Steve, with all due respect thats not what this is about. and yes your probably right. hope you been well.
I think the Americans should start matching up playing rotation and then we wouldn't have to worry so much about all the racking nonsense. Plenty of kicking, safeties, position off balls, spot shots, cluster break ups, and good ole fashioned running out guaranteed in a long healthy set. Enough to satisfy everyone plus plenty of handicapping possibilities to match up as well.
Based on Johnny's stipulation
There's little or no strategy and movement, unless there's a roll out
If you're the breaker you want to make balls and hang the one....hanging the one would be strong, but your opponent could make the one and it would spot.
These rules are the best for spectators, I know many want to scoff at them, but they really are great, because it becomes a battle each game. It's like boxers trading blows, and also ducking, dodging and positioning for the attack. This is the same with this type game, as it is now it's more like one guy gets punched several times, then he tries to punch the other guy several times.
There's little or no strategy and movement, unless there's a roll out, those games are better. And no, the Filipinos don't have any great advantage either. It would just bring out a style of rotation that would show how well the best players really can play.
If you're the breaker you want to make balls and hang the one....hanging the one would be strong, but your opponent could make the one and it would spot.
These rules are the best for spectators, I know many want to scoff at them, but they really are great, because it becomes a battle each game. It's like boxers trading blows, and also ducking, dodging and positioning for the attack. This is the same with this type game, as it is now it's more like one guy gets punched several times, then he tries to punch the other guy several times.
There's little or no strategy and movement, unless there's a roll out, those games are better. And no, the Filipinos don't have any great advantage either. It would just bring out a style of rotation that would show how well the best players really can play.
I've posted the push-out results for the streamed matches of several recent events. For the three most recent Turning Stone events plus the 2011 U.S. Open, the player who pushed won the game on 77 of 146 pushes (53%). So conventional wisdom (player with the option has the advantage) isn't holding up, but the numbers are small.
At some point maybe I'll go back and look at the 2012 U.S. Open and see if I can add in those results.
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I'm confused you don't want to push out because your the underdog right?
So based upon the stipulation that you have to push out why would you want o make a ball on the break?
So based upon the stipulation that you have to push out why would you want o make a ball on the break?
Because the player who's at the table always has the option to push or let the opponent push.
Because you can then make the other guy push.
I see this argument made fairly often... by people who are losing the "break contest."
Let's be honest, if CJ, or Archer, or anybody else proposing these kind of rules could break them like Shane can, they wouldn't want anything changed.
The break is important, obviously, but I think people have a tendency to overstate just how important it is.
Great data atlarge.....yes numbers are small but I'm more concerned with the fact that it's the "open".......I'd be curious with these stats with say the top ten in the world playing each other over a large sample or even maybe top 5 might be needed to get a true number
Steve, with all due respect thats not what this is about. and yes your probably right. hope you been well.
I thought this was about evening the playing field to those that know how to break or more importantly know how to rack or don't have to rack with the use of the majic rack. Go ahead and take that out and if you think the Filipinos have dominated pool before it wouldn't even compare to their domination they would have with the use of the push out and taking the break out of the game.
Learn from other sports if you can think of anything about marketing or what people want to see. Chicks dig the long ball.
Hope you are well too Eric. Good to see you posting. My post was not made to be offensive towards Johnny Archer as he certainly is a great player. But he would be playing for 8th place along with many others if the push out came into the rules of rotation pool.
Oh that is the stipulation that johnny proposed? If I break and make a ball I can either push myself or have my opponent push?
it's an incredible test of pocket billiards at it's finest
I really like your statistics, and in this particular instance they won't mean much. When you roll out ever time you start to really understand your opponent, you start to recognize and exploit his weaknesses. You start to fake him into shooting when he shouldn't and there's psychological things going on that only you and your opponent know is happening. This makes the game SO MUCH MORE than it currently is.
If you just roll out every so often, none of this applies. True Roll Out becomes like a chess match at the highest levels, and how you think Roll Out is played and how a player like myself plays it is very different. It is a hundred times more advanced than you could imagine without playing thousands of hours of it like Johnny and I have.
It's a whole different world, and it's an incredible test of pocket billiards at it's finest. 'The Game Becomes the Teacher'
I really like your statistics, and in this particular instance they won't mean much. When you roll out ever time you start to really understand your opponent, you start to recognize and exploit his weaknesses. You start to fake him into shooting when he shouldn't and there's psychological things going on that only you and your opponent know is happening. This makes the game SO MUCH MORE than it currently is.
If you just roll out every so often, none of this applies. True Roll Out becomes like a chess match at the highest levels, and how you think Roll Out is played and how a player like myself plays it is very different. It is a hundred times more advanced than you could imagine without playing thousands of hours of it like Johnny and I have.
It's a whole different world, and it's an incredible test of pocket billiards at it's finest. 'The Game Becomes the Teacher'
The streamers try to get the best matches they can for each time slot, but it's certainly not always the top 5 or 10 players.
How about required push after the break plus allowable push any other time? Would that be even finer?
I think what also needs to be understood is that the push out isn't the defining variable as to whether or not the pusher won the the game or not. It is dependent on the fact that there was say no safeties or missed shots and then another missed shot which allowed the pusher to win the shot. I believe that if the pusher was the 1st player to gain control of the table from the push and then won the game. I am not a probability and stat guy but I hope that makes sense.