This is not true. Jay has never been a "nut hugger". He just supports pool, and wanted the US Open to be a success and run fairly in spite of Barry. I'm sorry he wasn't allowed to be able to do that.
Jay Helfert resigned as Tourney Director at the US Open
- Thread starter bfdlad
- Start date
This is not true. Jay has never been a "nut hugger". He just supports pool, and wanted the US Open to be a success and run fairly in spite of Barry. I'm sorry he wasn't allowed to be able to do that.
I think you are wrong about nobody blaming Jay, I think everyone that now thinks he did the right thing, would think he was in the wrong if he allowed it to happen and not make a stand.
There is no way you can justify Allen being allowed to play ahead of anybody on the waiting list in my mind . Period
The fault all belongs to Barry number 1, and Allen number 2, for not making sure he was on the list , it has been available for over a month!.
So whats the scenario if he knew he was causing a huge problem and did it anyway?
He had to know when he wanted the spot, that it was going to cause a huge problem.
Allens not a dumb guy , so what are the scenarios for him starting all the controversy that he had to know was going to come about, since he has run the Super Billiards Expo tournament for over 20 years..
Even if he didn't think about it before , once Jay made a stand, Allen still had a chance to back off and take his share of the blame , be mad at Barry if he wanted to and wait till next year and do it the right way.
Instead he and Barry came forward full speed .
I cannot fathom how you can think any of this is Jay's fault.
He was the tournament director, it was his job to make sure something like this did not happen!
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i can't believe this thread is still going!!!
I truly believe a lot of people truly do not understand what happened and why Jay had to take a stand!
its pretty hard to be involved with something when Barry is pressuring for a desired out come via hook or crook!!!
Based on the pressure being exerted via text messages, phone calls & numerous overt actions, this was not going to play out well and Jay knew it!
But, what could he do??? Go along and possibly be asked to "Harm" players by distorting the truth to accommodate. You have to remember Jay has told several players on the waiting list that they are "first" "second" and "third" on the waiting list and now has to go and look those people in the face when they see the white out and Allen hopkin's name slapped up on the chart. What does jay say???
I am certain numerous other devious methods of securing a slot running through Barry's head was Jay's worst nightmare at the time. As tournament director, he was getting pulled into this whether he wanted to or not. Just my 2 cents.
KD
I truly believe a lot of people truly do not understand what happened and why Jay had to take a stand!
its pretty hard to be involved with something when Barry is pressuring for a desired out come via hook or crook!!!
Based on the pressure being exerted via text messages, phone calls & numerous overt actions, this was not going to play out well and Jay knew it!
But, what could he do??? Go along and possibly be asked to "Harm" players by distorting the truth to accommodate. You have to remember Jay has told several players on the waiting list that they are "first" "second" and "third" on the waiting list and now has to go and look those people in the face when they see the white out and Allen hopkin's name slapped up on the chart. What does jay say???
I am certain numerous other devious methods of securing a slot running through Barry's head was Jay's worst nightmare at the time. As tournament director, he was getting pulled into this whether he wanted to or not. Just my 2 cents.
KD
Everyone has to know that for this to have started is before play started Allen looked at the chart, didn't see his name and asked Jay " Hey, where am I at?". He was looking to see when he would play...he could have been one of the first up for all he knew.
We know the first round wasn't over for sure and most likely didn't even start so here is the first problem to solve and then wait for the next one but instead the drama starts.
You solve the problem. Not, I already did the chart!, you can't play!, there's nothing I can do! I have enough to do, I'm not dealing with this!
You solve the problem.
If it wasn't this it would have been something else, Jay would have most likely have ended up leaving over something. After the boxing glove crap with Barry among everything else I don't think Jay was going to deal with anything Barry wanted...whether Barry was in the right or in the wrong. He said he's been fed up with Barry for a long time now so that's not the best working environment to begin with.
I think things other than the Open have been festering with Jay for quite a while like the lawsuit for one and something just happened sooner rather than later in the week.
He probably shouldn't have been there in the first place but he was...until he wasn't.
We know the first round wasn't over for sure and most likely didn't even start so here is the first problem to solve and then wait for the next one but instead the drama starts.
You solve the problem. Not, I already did the chart!, you can't play!, there's nothing I can do! I have enough to do, I'm not dealing with this!
You solve the problem.
If it wasn't this it would have been something else, Jay would have most likely have ended up leaving over something. After the boxing glove crap with Barry among everything else I don't think Jay was going to deal with anything Barry wanted...whether Barry was in the right or in the wrong. He said he's been fed up with Barry for a long time now so that's not the best working environment to begin with.
I think things other than the Open have been festering with Jay for quite a while like the lawsuit for one and something just happened sooner rather than later in the week.
He probably shouldn't have been there in the first place but he was...until he wasn't.
Your post is full of a bunch of assumptions about things you know nothing about. His decision was reasonable, and makes more sense than the story you are trying to concoct, whether or not there was already tension in their relationship.
This was posted long ago, and I felt it was worthy of re-quoting.
I'm assuming that your assumption about my assumptions you assume to know more than I do, which you do not.
It's all facts that I stated. Point out what's wrong.
NYC cue dude
Banned
If you don't the this detail- if play had actually started or not, before Allen was added into the event, then you have no idea what you're talking about.
Swish.....................:lovies:
Hard to understand what all the fuss is about.
The TD resigned over a dispute on conduct. This I completely understand because he was the TD and therefore should have had the last say on the matter.
But I also agree with the AZB writers reporting on the event. The show must go on and the show did in fact go on. The players and the play are what count.
I bet lots here can remember who scored the winning goal at the last Super Bowl, but who can remember who refereed it?
And TD's really are two a penny. Surely even in the USA?
Our tour TD resigned just before the season started. A personality clash. Easily replaced and the show went on.
The TD resigned over a dispute on conduct. This I completely understand because he was the TD and therefore should have had the last say on the matter.
But I also agree with the AZB writers reporting on the event. The show must go on and the show did in fact go on. The players and the play are what count.
I bet lots here can remember who scored the winning goal at the last Super Bowl, but who can remember who refereed it?
And TD's really are two a penny. Surely even in the USA?
Our tour TD resigned just before the season started. A personality clash. Easily replaced and the show went on.
It...doesn't matter...if play had started or not.
When you have alternates...and they did. You fill any and every spot you are able to.
If Darren Appleton was using the stairs to come down for his match with Jeremy Jones and fell and broke his legs.
You would put in one of the alternates.
If Darren didn't fall...and made it to his match with Jeremy Jones and finally one of the @-idiots running the tournament realized "Hey, JJ isn't here and never was and won't be".
You would put in one of the alternates.
And in this instance...Allen went to the the front of the list.
Listen, we all know the days of Barry and Jay chilling out smoking a joint or doing a line have been long gone. Jay said he hasn't liked dealing with Barry anymore so it was a matter of time before something happened.
I'm surprised Jay didn't wait till no one was around and "POW!", right in Barry's kisser, then head to the airport and go back home.
@-the term idiots is in no means meant to be derogatory as I have been an idiot at times myself
NYC cue dude
Banned
The thread is about WHY the TD resigned. Not that he did or would the earth stop turning afterwards. But you already knew that and instead chose to avoid that altogether.
Reason?
This is about integrity. Not who made the last ball. I'm sure the players and fans had a good time. As you say "the show must go on" and it did.
Of the three main characters (Jay,Barry and Allen) in this post, one chose to leave and the other two chose to stay after the fix was in.
One showed a lot of class, while the other two showed there lack of class.
And we wonder why pool is in such shambles.
Don
Don
This is about integrity. Not who made the last ball. I'm sure the players and fans had a good time. As you say "the show must go on" and it did.
Of the three main characters (Jay,Barry and Allen) in this post, one chose to leave and the other two chose to stay after the fix was in.
One showed a lot of class, while the other two showed there lack of class.
And we wonder why pool is in such shambles.
Don
Don
I refer to the second line of my post above
NYC cue dude
Banned
I could tell from your very first post in this thread by you that you had "history" with Jay. The last 4 sentences above confirm your personal animus.
Sort of a low blow on Jay, referring to activities in the distant past. Would've been much more productive to comment on the MANY FELONIES Barry has perpetrated at the US Open, just in the last few years, perhaps. But out of respect for Mike H, who reopened this thread, I won't rehash that here. Now.
Tap, tap, tap. I agree with this line of thinking that I quoted above. :smile:
You've been around pool for many years, and I know you know that tournaments will always have a conundrum raise its ugly head that the rules do not cover. Personality and egos can sometimes clash when there's stress in the mix too, and this is not just restricted to players. Industry members have strong feelings about how they believe things should be, and they base their feelings on their experience. Not everybody will agree with how things should be handled.
In the end, you cannot please everybody in a pool tournament, no matter how hard you try, whether it's the equipment sucks, the wait times are brutal, the seeds and byes were unfair, yada yada yada. :embarrassed2:
About the smoking, well, I'm not going to say I never inhaled, but I am Woodstuck alumni.
Hope you are doing well.
Lol. I like Jay and we're friends.
You just can't sweep things under the carpet and pretend they never happened. Life is about mistakes and how we deal with them but their relationship (Jay and Barry) has deteriorated over the years and I'm surprised Jay even went back. I know he knew there was going to be conflict, he even said so. With Barry you know there's going to be.
I'm sorry but the US Open started more as a party vehicle for Barry than a pool tournament. A way to get together with everyone he knew and drink, smoke weed, snort coke, party and gamble.
Oh hey!, let's have a pool tournament in the meantime!
That's part of the history.
Over the years people get fed up with other people, Jay got fed up with Little Napoleon.
Well the Rolling Stones were naughty rebels years ago but you can't help liking them all the same and you can't judge and punish them forever anyway.