JB Cases $10,000 One Pocket Challenge Match

The main reason I made this thread folks was because I finally uploaded the whole thing to youtube. I just wanted to put up the link for that. It's not really to rehash the whole thing. But I figured IF we are going to talk about it and talk about things that happened or allegedly happened now at least we all have easy access to reference the video.

Thus we can point to certain shots and segments and discuss them if that's what people want to do.

For myself I'd just as soon forget it given how horrible I played. Although there were times I played somewhat ok overall I could have and should have done much better. I do honestly think that this is not a bad match to learn from, both on the "what not to do" aspect and on the good moves aspect.

Lou is a pretty good mover. Watching it again he did put me into tough spots a lot of times. I have certainly learned some moves from him.

There are some shots from this match that I think are worth discussing. Not in an antagonistic way, just in a wwyd here type of way that we can all benefit from. I have said that I am building a training center and in my mind this type of pressure match, with high emotion fueling a "grudge" situation is a good one to analyze for how pool is played in pressure situations by amateurs in contrast to the pros. So if we could keep it to that then the readers of the forum could probably derive some benefit.

Also, I really want to publicly thank all the people who tried to help me out.

James Walden
Joey Aguzin
Shane Ragland
Joey Gray
Billy Senko
Stan Shuffett
Billy Incardona
Bill Gibbs
Jacob McMichael
Dennis Spears
Ed Liddawi
Dave Segal
Andi Sattler
Monte Ohrt
and many more from the forum here and beyond who were so kind with advice and support during my travels leading up to the match. There was a lot of drama in the air, lots of woofing, lots of emotion, some "hustling" etc... it was all there. I have said it before that I wouldn't trade a win if I had to give up the friendships I made along the way and I mean that sincerely.

Thank you to Pat Fleming for graciously allowing us to play in your arena. That was a true honor for me given that you are one of my true pool heroes for what you have done to preserve the history of our sport.

And lastly, thanks to Lou. You did step up to play even if it was at the urging of others. It took a lot on your part in my opinion to risk losing to me so publicly given our history. I think that the win meant more than whatever amount of money you ended up with. It certainly would have meant more to me than $10,000 to have beaten you. I was not prepared for the amount of emotion that I felt and it did take me a while to calm down somewhat. Although at the end of the day an internet grudge match between adults is pretty silly I still am glad we did it. Took 14 years to come to fruition but at least we both can say we stepped up.

I honestly don't want to continue to be at odds with you. I don't agree with you on many levels, I don't agree with your version of events. But, I do SINCERELY respect you for playing. Even if you thought there was little chance to lose I am pretty sure you knew that there was some chance and for you to take the chance on losing to me says a lot. I am willing to have a truce with you if you are. I will still ask you periodically if you want to play again and a simple no will be ok. I won't knock you for it.

So, that's pretty much all I want to say in that regard.

Now let's get to the shots where I am shooting at flying mosquitoes. :-)
 
PhilosopherKing said:
I wonder if Martha Stewart classifies her incarceration as a "viral" marketing campaign? :embarrassed2:
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Probably not. But she came out better than even didn't she? Our revenue has more than tripled since 2013 and I am confident that part of it is because of traveling around the country doing sales at the same time as an impending big money match involving me.

Kind of like when Richard Branson indulges himself with an around-the-world balloon trip with a big Virgin logo on his balloon.

I could be in $10,000 action every week but it wouldn't bring me the same publicity that that this match did. Dean Campbell did tell me though that it would not be a bad idea to do one or two of these a year. I agree with him but I'd like to be in better form so I at least have a better shot at winning some of them. :-)
 
I had a small part in stirring this up, unfortunately I don't think I can stir it up again. John seems very willing but not sure about Lou's man in the shadows. I have met Lou in person and he was a nice guy and I am sure John is much the same in person. I have had my differences with John plenty of times but wish him no ill will and have to respect that he put his a$$ out there for all to see and is ready to do it again.
 
BmoreMoney said:
While I agree it tends to get out of hand at times its not all bad. I mean how much can we talk about tips, shafts, and chalk?
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This match showed that there is more to enjoy in a match besides the actual play itself.

This was fun. Overboard sometimes, yes, but fun much of the time. I hope it happens again someday down the road. I expect this year is too soon, but maybe 2017.... :p
 
Celtic said:
In Johns defense though, either...

A) He is lying, he lost $10,000 and it stung and was a financial hit (as it would be to a lot of people). John got crushed, Lou walked away happy with some of John's money in his pockets and got to gloat incessantly on AZB about it for years since.

or

B) He is telling the truth, he paid off $10,000 and it really did not hurt him all that much. Lou got paid off nicely and John made some from it and they both walked away happy.

But either way, John is actually putting the challenge out there for $20,000 to do it again, against a guy who already beat him for the cash once.

I do not see too many people in woofing matches on AZB who have "actually" stepped up with 5 digit bet offers against guys most people would consider them an underdog against and ACTUALLY showed up with the cash and played.

Who else has done that? Ever? Most people in here want the stone cold nuts to bet $100, John is offering $20,000 in action in a match most people think he will lose. Like him or not, John has gamble and has proven he "will" put his money where his mouth is... and lose it.
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That was a pocket change bet for Dippy Dave , Dennis just challenged Shane he's been smoked
The dollar amout is over rated there's probaly 1000's. here that has bet every last cent including thier next meals money with no chance of recouping cash back from the advertising ,,
The fact is JB is not playing for the money he's playing for the bragging rights online no more no less
1
 
one stroke said:
That was a pocket change bet for Dippy Dave , Dennis just challenged Shane he's been smoked
The dollar amout is over rated there's probaly 1000's. here that has bet every last cent including thier next meals money with no chance of recouping cash back from the advertising ,,
The fact is JB is not playing for the money he's playing for the bragging rights online no more no less
1
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Well a little more than bragging rights. $20,000 buy a lot of nice things. Just because I happen to be able to absorb the expense doesn't mean I don't feel it.

But no, I am not going to bet every dollar I have and take risk of going broke over a pool game. Neither would Lou.

I have done it many times in my life but that was before I had a family. Sometimes I got busted all the way down to digging for change and sometimes I out ran the nuts and doubled my net worth at the time.

All I can say is that for me it was definitely still pressure from the amount of money we played for but it was more pressure due to the grudge factor. So in the end you're mostly right that the bragging rights were a bigger factor emotionally. But it is a different game when you're playing for a lot of money as well.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 
I can see where John realized a good deal of advertising from the match but it still takes a pair of nice size cajones to wager $10,000 of your own money.

Another plus-the match and possible future match give us in the cheap seats something to argue about.
 
Fast Lenny said:
I had a small part in stirring this up, unfortunately I don't think I can stir it up again. John seems very willing but not sure about Lou's man in the shadows. I have met Lou in person and he was a nice guy and I am sure John is much the same in person. I have had my differences with John plenty of times but wish him no ill will and have to respect that he put his a$$ out there for all to see and is ready to do it again.
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I don't know what you mean about "man in the shadows". This time around I think a I know what to do. I have plenty of game film to study :-)

I don't really care who is backing Lou or on his side. I know that I played the sucker by wasting time engaging people online excessively instead of spending every available moment on the table. That was entirely my fault and I own it. I did have a slightly different plan for the online activity but that went out the window once I started responding to trolls.

I fully understand that I got mentally "hustled" to a degree but I only blame myself for allowing myself to be hustled. Next time I will hopefully have learned from the first experience. I actually have learned and whenever I set up a match now I try harder to get my mind right before going in.
 
JB Cases said:
I don't know what you mean about "man in the shadows". This time around I think a I know what to do. I have plenty of game film to study :-)

I don't really care who is backing Lou or on his side. I know that I played the sucker by wasting time engaging people online excessively instead of spending every available moment on the table. That was entirely my fault and I own it. I did have a slightly different plan for the online activity but that went out the window once I started responding to trolls.

I fully understand that I got mentally "hustled" to a degree but I only blame myself for allowing myself to be hustled. Next time I will hopefully have learned from the first experience. I actually have learned and whenever I set up a match now I try harder to get my mind right before going in.
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If you made every shot you were supposed to make would you have won?
 
JB Cases said:
I don't know what you mean about "man in the shadows". This time around I think a I know what to do. I have plenty of game film to study :-)

I don't really care who is backing Lou or on his side. I know that I played the sucker by wasting time engaging people online excessively instead of spending every available moment on the table. That was entirely my fault and I own it. I did have a slightly different plan for the online activity but that went out the window once I started responding to trolls.

I fully understand that I got mentally "hustled" to a degree but I only blame myself for allowing myself to be hustled. Next time I will hopefully have learned from the first experience. I actually have learned and whenever I set up a match now I try harder to get my mind right before going in.
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Why are you posting? Get to playing!:thumbup:
 
Fast Lenny said:
If you made every shot you were supposed to make would you have won?
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I'd have to go back and analyze it but I will say yes. I want to say that most of the time when I didn't flat sell out trying to play safe I actually beat Lou to the shot and thus I think I would have won enough games to win the match.

I lost a lot of games by missing shots and thus allowing opportunities.
 
JB Cases said:
I'd have to go back and analyze it but I will say yes. I want to say that most of the time when I didn't flat sell out trying to play safe I actually beat Lou to the shot and thus I think I would have won enough games to win the match.

I lost a lot of games by missing shots and thus allowing opportunities.
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Did you miss the shots due to CTE? :)

Couldn't resist ;)
 
very cool.
thank you, John.
and "nice to meet you"....

@ AZB: YÁLL SHOULD ALL DO THE SAME
IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE....
 
PINKLADY said:
very cool.
thank you, John.
and "nice to meet you"....

@ AZB: YÁLL SHOULD ALL DO THE SAME
IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE....
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John is OK (Oklahoma pun) John called me after I ordered a case from him...just to see if I received it:cool:
 
JB Cases said:
I'd have to go back and analyze it but I will say yes. I want to say that most of the time when I didn't flat sell out trying to play safe I actually beat Lou to the shot and thus I think I would have won enough games to win the match.

I lost a lot of games by missing shots and thus allowing opportunities.
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What does the one pocket site say about this?

I have my own opinion, but what I saw live was from the normal bad angle, so it might have looked different. Plus my memory is faulty, so watching it again might be the right thing, but I don't know that I have the energy.

Quick synopsis, aside from the obvious berating of your stroke form:

{In my own wrong opinion}

I think that your break was overall better .

Your end game was better/smarter (that might not be the right wording, but I liked your end game better overall).

I think Lou's full pack defensive moving was slightly better ,while his full pack offense was much better.

Lou had more what I call "power one pocket banks" to his hole.

Lou's overall cueball is simply better.

There were a few times where you chose to shoot aggressively that you didn't need to.

Lou played more safely, but he's known for that.

Late into the first day, when you were needing one ball, and Lou scratched while pocketing your last ball, and thus spotting them both up. We went through a bunch of scenarios. I think you chose the amateur way (which I initially agreed with, since I'm an amateur!), but every player who actually plays this game said to kick at the 4-ball and not just step back from needing one.

Could you have won the set? I have no doubt. Consider that one measly game your way makes this 8-7 after 15 games. Erase any of several mid-game mistakes on your part, and you could have gotten there. But, then again, it's not like Lou played without a few errors. A few of his mistakes erased ,and then it could have been a blow out for him.

I think it was a fun match to watch.
 
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