JB vs Lou - Let's Get It On
- Thread starter Kickin' Chicken
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The terms are not unreasonable generally speaking. Maybe unreasonable for you for perfectly legitimate reasons.
By dictating the location and the duration of the match, at a minimum, he was giving himself an advantage. Isn't that reasonable to receive some weight after losing the first go 'round?
I think if you agreed to the offer the match would play, or he would have to go in to hiding after all the barking.
Say no more !
Nudge, nudge. Grin, grin.
Lou has nothing to gain
He has $20,000 to gain
He's being asked to gamble for more than he won in the first match.
For that, he should be grateful
You guys are pretty funny this afternoon.
I hate to crush everyone's hopes and dreams but this match is not going to happen. JB made a *non-negotiable* proffer. I countered and offered to negotiate. That's all I can do. But JB will not negotiate so this match is DOA.
Just to take one of his non-negotiable conditions: match to be played in December. As I explained, I'm traveling a lot in December and won't be playing much pool. So I countered saying I'd play almost any time between now and the week before Thanksgiving, with the exception of a couple of dates on which I have something scheduled with Gail.
Another point: 10 ahead. We're two amateur players. The last time I was two games up after eight hours. So 10 ahead, given our skill levels and past history, is unreasonable. I'm not interested in an extended stay in Oklahoma City, though I hear it's very nice
I could go on about some of his other terms but it's moot. This match will not happen.
Lou Figueroa
Your dodging a kill shot.
J admits to have a high run of 98 playing str8 pool, accomplished sometime ago, so, who knows how good he really plays...
Word is he busted everybody in china, hence the move here in his quest for action
OK - I'll try this:
Lou and John,
I know that we here at AZ would like to see some sort of rematch happen.
I have learned that negotiations between two earnest parties are always negotiable. If you both sincerely want to play, you will address the other party's reasonable concerns. I agree with Lou that a 10 ahead match is an open ended invitation with no guaranteed term.
John, if you are sincere about a rematch, stating that unilaterally dictated terms as "non-negotiable" looks like a deal killer. Please keep an open mind and at least consider Lou's concerns.
I think John's other requests are reasonable under the circumstances, although I can understand Lou not necessarily wanting to now double up the original bet.
Lou, would you accept John's other terms if he agreed to play a race instead? If so, what length of race would you be comfortable with, and at what amount?
Lou, it would be completely understandable if you were to just say "no" and walk away considering what you went through the last time. Please let us know - is there any real desire to play him again?
Chris
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10 ahead isn't too bad when you consider yourself to be much much better than you actually are and are the most under rated player on the forum. Which reminds me, I could eat some chicken wings.
Artie B and I played a race to 7 that took 16 hours a few years back at Derby City. I was dead for two days. Eight hours a day might be ok for a few days, but it is doubtful you could finish unless someone just fell dead and could not make a ball.
Ten ahead might take forever. I agree that John knew the conditions were unacceptable when he made the offer. I do believe he would play if you accepted, but he was sure you would not.
The only reason that someone should decline the offer from JB for $20,000 10 ahead is because they can't make the scheduled dates in December (I would do everything I could to rearrange my schedule). If someone like JB made me this offer I would post my $20,000 and arrange my schedule so I had 2 weeks free to take home the winnings. The 8 hour days might be hard but are manageable at their younger ages.
I played a 10 ahead set for $3,000 against a tougher opponent giving up a big spot. After the first 8 hour day I was even. After the 2nd day I was 8 down.
After the 3rd day I was 2 down. I won it on the 4th day.
(Of course if Lou is going to do like last time and just bet $2,000 of his money and let someone else walk off with the $18,000 then it makes no sense.)
Wayne
Prorate after 4 or 5 days? I guess that would still count as negotiation, though. I wonder what John would say to 7 ahead, with all other terms accepted?
Playing pool 8 hours a day is basically what I hope to do when I retire. I may change my mind about that when the time comes, though...maybe just 4-5 hours.
Yet he still has his following that think we are haters for calling him out on it ,,
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It might take forever unless one of us comes off the stall.
Then offer a time limit on days with a pro-rated payout for whoever is ahead when the time is up.
I am happy to have more time to prepare but the match WILL NOT HAPPEN anywhere close to any of my shows ever again. The other reason that there is a specific time line on this one is that most our money is tied up in our business and it's rare that I have 20k liquid at any given time. Contrary to popular belief we aren't millionaires yet from cue cases. So, the money not spent on this match will be quickly used for other more productive purposes.
I would agree to a prorate after five days. A week of pool to try and make $20,000 is a pretty good opportunity and not unreasonable. Professional pool players fly around the world to battle for a week to make less.
My PM Box and email are available. There will be no chance of me agreeing to any sort of race.
The funny part is that I had one good chance to actually bust a good chinese player for a boatload of money and all I could get after 3 days was $1800 at $600US a game. The guy shot too straight and never met an 85 degree cut he couldn't make. Plus he was a great snooker player so he could move pretty good once he saw the strategy.
When I say boatload of money I mean he brought a Prada bag FULL of money to play with on day two. I was sick thinking of that bag every time I took a shot.
I think two guys matching up to prove or disprove an aiming system is pretty comical. And to choose one-pocket....you may as well choose 3 cushion to prove if CTE works or not. 1 in 5 shots is aimed at a pocket....
The match will never go off. John has nothing to lose, and everything to gain. Lou has nothing to gain, and everything to lose. He's being asked to gamble for more than he won in the first match. First minus. He's dealing with JB, so he knows that no matter if he wins or loses, he will still have to deal with John's antics over the next 18 months, Second minus. If John loses, well....he already lost, and looked bad in the process. So, if it happens again, we all just say "we all knew this would happen". Third minus.
Look at it from Lou's perspective. Let's say he's being backed in this. He may make $3-4k on the endeavour. For some people, they'd go to the end of the Earth for that money. Some wouldn't cross the street for it. I can see Lou's point of just wanting to have the money and the win, and saying "I'm done with JB".
If JB really wanted to play Lou, he'd accept Lou's terms, because there's nothing really out of hand in his proposal. If someone really wants the action, they find a way to make it happen. With negotiations.
JB...if you really wanted to give money away, you could have just sent me the Rugged Case I just ordered from you for free
(and yes, I just said I'm the owner of a JB case. I never thought the day would come, but the man makes a great case for the money...)
Thanks Shawn, I certainly raised my eyebrows when I saw your name on the order list. Thanks for choosing us to protect your cues.
This match isn't about CTE vs. anything else. CTE is only a way to aim. It doesn't fix any bad habits.
I don't want to go anywhere to play. I don't want a race this time. I want to insure that I can't run out of runway so to speak. I have been beaten in an ahead set from being on the hill at +5 so I know it's possible even if not probable. But a set is a war of attrition where it gets increasingly statistically impossible to win when one guy gets on the hill and the other person needs many games.
As for the terms. I don't really care about negotiating. It's $20,000. These are my conditions for spending it. Of course if the dates don't work then we possibly could work on that. Everything else not so much. Plus Shawn to be honest I don't want the drama this time around. That's why I want it simple and clear.
If, however, anyone wants to back me then I will accept all negotiated terms they make. I will be wherever they tell me to be and ready to play. Otherwise I have a lot of money to lose and surely the last shot at any sort of "redemption" for my horrid play last time unless I agree to prostrate myself in a short set in St. Louis.
Perhaps but nothing I wrote is out of line in any way.
Maybe, maybe not. Doesn't matter because it's not a show that I care about charging anyone to watch or even if anyone watches. I got all the taste for theater out of my system the last time. Frankly I think I would prefer it not be streamed so that I don't have to think about the comments.
I don't know anything. I will gladly put up my x-rays to yours to see who can stand up longer. Nothing I offered you is unreasonable. You agreed to play eight hours a day before. That match could have easily gone for a week if I had played you tighter.
Everyone has you pegged as the heavy favorite. I think you're better than me but not enough that you will run over me. In any event you made the first challenge in the anticipation that I wouldn't accept it and you could continue to call me a two-bit-coward forever. I played you for $10,000 agreeing to almost all of your terms as presented and going out of my way to accommodate you even when you were unreasonable.
Anyway, IF you really want to play then you are fully capable of writing an email to me to discuss it. Nothing is ever truly "non-negotiable" but you will need to have a discussion with me in a civil manner if you want me to come off any of these points.
Lou, I can "spam" the group with my ads all day simply by engaging in many conversations and sharing my industry and pool experience. I don't need to attempt to give you a virtual free roll (so thinks the smart money) at $20,000 to do it. Maybe I am bluffing but until you or your backers call me you will never know will you?
Kind of like when I asked you FOUR times on this forum to double the bet last time. Not even one time did you acknowledge the offer when I stipulated that we had to freeze up the whole amount. Then you decided to call and come over the top and ended up playing for a lot less because you waited too long. So it's up to you. If you can't fade it for whatever reason then I understand but that's on you not on me.
You have until this coming Friday to work it out or the offer is off the table for now.
GoldenFlash
Banned
.."decent, honest, pool players"??? What an oxymoron.
Guess which one in the picture is you.........
:wink::wink:
You lost self-respect over a thread in a pool shooting website??The same thing you did. Our self-respect as decent, honest, God fearing pool players.
This ex-patriot led us around like a dog on a leash while flaunting that damnable cartoon, subliminally exposing us to unwanted (and poorly contrived, I might add) advertising. Outrageous!
By-the-way, are you related to cookie man?
Guess which one in the picture is you.........
:wink::wink:
You lost self-respect over a thread in a pool shooting website??
Guess which one in the picture is you.........
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Damn right! I feel violated. Kind of like the last guy "Two-Tooth" Sally gave a lap dance to.
Are your sure you're not Cookie in disguise? :smile:
How about making it 5-ahead in January for $10K instead?
John,
So are you saying, for example, you would consider an offer of 2 days playing, 8 hours per day? If it's not settled pro rate @ $2000.00 per game ahead?
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I would consider 3-5 days. I am not exactly a spring chicken myself although I the wings of one apparently.
So you want 10 ahead, minimum of 3 to 5 days, XX hours per day, pro rate after expiration @ $2000 per game?
That is a long, long match. But we have a starting place.
Lou, do you have a counter offer? In all honesty, you are a young looking 62. I would have never guessed you were in your 60's looking at you on video. Age, as we all should know by now, does not necessarily mean much. Health and fitness are far more significant.
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I think XX is already set at 8. Presumably, that means they finish whatever rack starts before 8 hours (hypothetically, since a match still seems unlikely).
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