John isn't worried about them. John is worried about all the pool players being taking advantage of by Mike's lies and shitty product. That's why he is so pationate about it.
John Barton us open ban
- Thread starter mvp
- Start date
- Status
John isn't worried about them. John is worried about all the pool players being taking advantage of by Mike's lies and shitty product. That's why he is so pationate about it.
I must have missed something wasn't Jasper Meeks the inventor of the leather tooled case that you and Jack Justice made similar copies of with a little change here and there , also you are now making copies of Fanneli cases , the only difference in the cases I see is really the change in material still similar design as leather cases ,
I don't see really how you have a case pardon the pun , plenty of things are copied the list is endless very rare the originator wins a case in court
1
Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery! Jay Flowers was making beautiful tooled leather cases over 30 years ago (JEF Cases).
Make them pay. Slander. And to those that banned you, no support from you.
Baloney! I think pool players are quite capable of deciding for themselves if they want a "Cadillac" or a "Chevy." Why should John care if there is an inferior product that attempts to copy him? If that's the case (again) he should really be mad at all the Chinese companies knocking off just about every "name" brand product there is. Wait a second, weren't his cases being made in China for many years?
I truly understand that , I had both cases in my hands today , I look at it like a Ping Copied golf club , there is a difference noticeably like there was in the two cases , , fabric of the JB is higher quality the rings are more robust and on the back strap you have 2 instead of one , the bottom has a band for reforcement for the brads and the fit finish throughout the case is tighter and last but not least the inside padding is tighter and the material there is also better there , now I might notice something's in stitching and the cord work the average joe won't ever see I grew up in a upholstery shop but JBs clearly knows these differences
Overall it's a better made case period ,
1
Last edited:
Are you for real? Overrated fit and finish? Have two I use virtually every day. My custom leather 4 x 8 butterfly is nearly five years old. There is nothing, nothing imperfect on that case. My Ultimate Rugged only gets used when I'm in Vegas. Every seam. Every zipper. Every part of the case is as near perfect as I would have expected from JB Cases for a quarter of the price of my leather case.
Wish I could really call John and Karen friends but we are really pool acquaintances. We've disagreed on issues before. John has always been respectful and generous to me and those of us in the pool community. Mike has always treated me as respectfully as John. He has also been generous to me and the pool community. I'm saddened these two giants in the pool industry have allowed their competition to degrade to this shouting match.
Lyn
Thanks for this Lyn. You are the voice of reason here. Like you, I know both these men quite well and have never had a problem with either one of them. IMO they are both assets to the billiard community.
Jay Flowers made NOTHING.
Nora Van Horn, a former Tandy Leather employee made the cases. She used the same construction methods and decoration that Al Stohlman, another Tandy guy came up with and wrote in his books 'The Art of Making Leather Cases', and countless others.
Those books have been available for decades to leathercrafters, and have stood as a primer for leather case making for anyone interested in the craft.
But dont let that stop you from talking out of your ass because you apparently have some beef with John.
Unless you are a wacko looking to unload on a shit load of people.... then there seems to be very little video, if any at all... weird...
Jay Flowers made NOTHING.
Nora Van Horn, a former Tandy Leather employee made the cases. She used the same construction methods and decoration that Al Stohlman, another Tandy guy came up with and wrote in his books 'The Art of Making Leather Cases', and countless others.
Those books have been available for decades to leathercrafters, and have stood as a primer for leather case making for anyone interested in the craft.
But dont let that stop you from talking out of your ass because you apparently have some beef with John.
Jasper Meeks came up with the design and Nora made them and he sold them
1
This is correct.
If that's the case (pun intended) then why should John worry about them?
I am not worried about competition from $99 cases. I am frustrated by $99 cases being advertised as $226 cases using lies to get people to believe they are worth $226.
We stay at full capacity. Whenever there are cases for sale at shows it is only because we worked overtime to be able to make enough for the show.
I don't have any problem with knockoffs. Wherever innovation goes imitation follows. Copying it's how we excel as a species. We are also very good at lying to each other. And we are very gullible.
The billiard industry is a license to steal. I could, if I wanted to, bring in containers of various goods and market then use lies and I would get away with it for years and probably forever because this industry has no oversight, no consumer reports, no accountability. So a guy who lies but is "nice" does far better than a man who exposes those lies and isn't "nice" about it.
I have one little corner of the pool world that I specialize in and I made it my career 29 years ago. This is the one thing I am an expert in.
Telling customers lies about your case doesn't magically make it true. Your customers repeating those lies doesn't make it true. It's easy to buy loyalty in this industry, easy to buy support.
People sell out for literally peanuts. Mediocre players get their egos stroked by getting a "sponsorship" consisting of a case, some shirts, and some accessories. People get friends and family discounts and they will literally walk across fire proclaiming how great you are.
Far harder to earn support by being real and being honest even when it is not nice and not kumbaya. If any of you think I was serious when I put up $10,000 against a better player betting on my convictions just imagine what I am prepared to spend to defend myself against false accusations. I can't change the whole industry but I am absolutely ready to defend my corner of it.
Last edited:
Thank you. My point is that it is being advertised as a $226 case that is on sale for $97. People can put whatever price they want on things but then other people (me) should be allowed to call or the quality deficiencies.
And for the record the quality issues are also internal. Most of the cases I have dissected are missing 1-3"of liner at the bottom which can allow the cue parts to clack against reach other.
Jay created one version of a tooled leather case. Many preceded him with similar versions.
And dont forget the most important thing.....John stands behind his work. Even for the guys that ***** about him. And if you havent checked out his website lately take a look at the design section. Way cool. Light years ahead of the competition.
Have I told you I love you lately?
You are always along with RKC one of my favorite people to "argue" with. Both of you get "it" and I respect the s#/+ out of the both of you!
I think I might have a dealer case project I'd like to pursue with you and another case maker.
Anyway, stay strong, and keep making the best cases in the biz. There are plenty of us that realize we are stealing when we buy your work.
Jason
Jay Flowers made NOTHING.
Nora Van Horn, a former Tandy Leather employee made the cases. She used the same construction methods and decoration that Al Stohlman, another Tandy guy came up with and wrote in his books 'The Art of Making Leather Cases', and countless others.
Those books have been available for decades to leathercrafters, and have stood as a primer for leather case making for anyone interested in the craft.
But dont let that stop you from talking out of your ass because you apparently have some beef with John.
Calm down dude. It's okay if Jay had someone actually make the cases for him that he designed. I know about that since we designed one together that he had made for me, and Nora wasn't anywhere around when we were doing that.
P.S. Sounds like you're the one with some kind of beef. You got a little out of line there Mr. RIVER CITY!
Speaking of imitation, I told you these very things, multiple times!
No doubt you know of what you speak! We had that very discussion a handful of times in the past when you proudly bragged about disassembling every other makers case design you could get your hands on to copy. If the shoe is pinching your toes now it is a good laugh!
I fired up an old laptop the other day and found some interesting old rants of yours that I had deleted but were put back on in a restore. Perhaps anyone going to court accusing you of violence will be interested in those rants. As I recall they included some threats.
Have fun, I am going to just sit back and laugh!
Hu
No doubt you know of what you speak! We had that very discussion a handful of times in the past when you proudly bragged about disassembling every other makers case design you could get your hands on to copy. If the shoe is pinching your toes now it is a good laugh!
I fired up an old laptop the other day and found some interesting old rants of yours that I had deleted but were put back on in a restore. Perhaps anyone going to court accusing you of violence will be interested in those rants. As I recall they included some threats.
Have fun, I am going to just sit back and laugh!
Hu
- Status