I would bet that you could do this format 2 or 3 different times and get a different winner each time. Also probably would be a 4-2 score alot of the time for the winner....IMO
John Schmidt - how do you rate his one-pocket game?
- Thread starter Roy Steffensen
- Start date
I would bet that you could do this format 2 or 3 different times and get a different winner each time. Also probably would be a 4-2 score alot of the time for the winner....IMO
here are the odds: Scott Frost 3-1, Cliff Joyner 3-1, Tony Chohan 4-1, Gabe Owen 4-1, Corey Duel, John Schmidt and Danny Harriman 8-1.
(I would give Shannon Daulton better odds than the last three.)
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I think you might be on to something but I would say Cliff's odds may be a little lower than Tony or Gabe right now though.
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You are very close Wayne. I believe if you were to take that group out of a tournament environment (race to 3 is a joke) and make it a long run for the cash, at this point in time, Scott would be a big favorite to win in a round robin.
Going to 8 or 10 games, I would make him a 3 to1 favorite, and all the rest 5 to 1 or more. (including Cliff)
I think even Shannon would win most long races against John, but not against Gabe. Of that group, I would pick Gabe to finish a close second. JMO
Dick
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I'd pick Daulton over all of them.
Being a pure shotmaker must be nice. I think that's john's big strength even though he's known for making a million balls in 14.1. The perception is that 14.1 is a thinker's game and all about pinpoint leaves etc, but I think it was steve lipsky who said in some recent commentary that it's very much a shotmaker's game.. you're frequently forced to come up with long tough shots or funny backcuts. Not saying john doesn't have the pinpoint precision too, but that might be why he's mister 400 (and 3) and not mister 250.
When he was still a new name in the straight pool scene, I remember seeing the tape of the famous match between him and mike sigel where sigel snapped his cue. The commentators where aghast at the long, tough, risky shots he'd make, saying it was like watching a champion 9 baller (which john later became) had just started on straight pool.
When he was still a new name in the straight pool scene, I remember seeing the tape of the famous match between him and mike sigel where sigel snapped his cue. The commentators where aghast at the long, tough, risky shots he'd make, saying it was like watching a champion 9 baller (which john later became) had just started on straight pool.
I am by no means a 1P player, nor am I an expert on making odds. I did however have the honor of standing around chatting with John and Corey at the DCC. They were talking about matching up with different players at different games.
Corey, who is obviously a good 1P player and also great at making games, told John emphatically that he was the most underrated 1P player around. Of course that was a day or two before John won the event, so he may have blown his cover to some degree.
Any way you slice it, John is right up there and if anyone thinks otherwise they might end up on the wrong side of the action. IMHO
Corey, who is obviously a good 1P player and also great at making games, told John emphatically that he was the most underrated 1P player around. Of course that was a day or two before John won the event, so he may have blown his cover to some degree.
Any way you slice it, John is right up there and if anyone thinks otherwise they might end up on the wrong side of the action. IMHO
JoeyA - The reason Schmitty won.
The only reason Schmitty won the tournament was because he asked me to warm him up with some one pocket. He knew that I have special secrets that I use in helping players to get in stroke for different games. These secrets are real but they are secret. John didn't even know what I did to get him playing so well. It is awesome. I should write a book.
Oh yeah, his OB 2 cue probably helped a little bit too. :wink:
JoeyA
The only reason Schmitty won the tournament was because he asked me to warm him up with some one pocket. He knew that I have special secrets that I use in helping players to get in stroke for different games. These secrets are real but they are secret. John didn't even know what I did to get him playing so well. It is awesome. I should write a book.
Oh yeah, his OB 2 cue probably helped a little bit too. :wink:
JoeyA
I think you hit it right on the head. GO an SF are, imo a bit better than the others I have seen. Cliff has seemingly been struggling quite a bit of late. And to the original posting, I would say John plays good enough
The good ones stick!
Dick, I hope you don't mind that I quote parts of your post in the other forum. I thought your reply to Artie was very good.
I know you probably wanted to post it here yourself but since you can't link or copy, and type 3 WPM, I just did the work for you
hi
you know billy palmer won a tourney against scott one time and scott offered him 9-7.
i was thinking i might get offered that too if i was lucky enough to win against scott.
he hasnt offered it yet but with as good as he is it wouldnt surprise me if he offers it .
i think the main reason i feel im an underdog to gabe.tony ,scott etc is the banking.
i never practice banking and play onehole once a year at derby so my banking is not that great.
banking is huge in onehole and the main reason i would lose to those guys not moving.
ive managed to get 4th and 1st at derby one hole with 300 plus man fields.
been in the finals of legends of onehole,hard times jamboree finals ,1st in mobile onehole with many great players.played all the top players onehole even or with 9-7 and won almost everytime for big money.
point is im surprised at the success ive had at onehole because i play it rarely and bank like a 4th grader.
i do think patients and moving are overrated .
i played richie richeson one time in mobile 50 a game.
ricky bird told me he banks better than you john and moves better too.
well i ended up 20 something ahead playing even after a couple 6 hour sessions.
the whole time people are saying john should lose he doesnt know the game. lol
its still pool and putting balls in pockets .
i move good and then when i get a chance to be offensive i have a chance to win.
if you think scott beats everybody with moves no way.
he does it by choosing very offensive shots and shooting very straight and running alot of balls.he also moves great.
you combine moving great and running balls great with the understanding of percentages ,playing the count etc you are going to win tourneys.
for the record i think im the underdog against a few guys.
for as little as i play onehole i feel fortunate and flattered to even be considered as a top ten oneholer as i do feel its a great game.
you know billy palmer won a tourney against scott one time and scott offered him 9-7.
i was thinking i might get offered that too if i was lucky enough to win against scott.
he hasnt offered it yet but with as good as he is it wouldnt surprise me if he offers it .
i think the main reason i feel im an underdog to gabe.tony ,scott etc is the banking.
i never practice banking and play onehole once a year at derby so my banking is not that great.
banking is huge in onehole and the main reason i would lose to those guys not moving.
ive managed to get 4th and 1st at derby one hole with 300 plus man fields.
been in the finals of legends of onehole,hard times jamboree finals ,1st in mobile onehole with many great players.played all the top players onehole even or with 9-7 and won almost everytime for big money.
point is im surprised at the success ive had at onehole because i play it rarely and bank like a 4th grader.
i do think patients and moving are overrated .
i played richie richeson one time in mobile 50 a game.
ricky bird told me he banks better than you john and moves better too.
well i ended up 20 something ahead playing even after a couple 6 hour sessions.
the whole time people are saying john should lose he doesnt know the game. lol
its still pool and putting balls in pockets .
i move good and then when i get a chance to be offensive i have a chance to win.
if you think scott beats everybody with moves no way.
he does it by choosing very offensive shots and shooting very straight and running alot of balls.he also moves great.
you combine moving great and running balls great with the understanding of percentages ,playing the count etc you are going to win tourneys.
for the record i think im the underdog against a few guys.
for as little as i play onehole i feel fortunate and flattered to even be considered as a top ten oneholer as i do feel its a great game.
I kinda agree with what John just said..
you dont win a game just by moving, you still gotta shoot the hole to win the game, which is what he did exactely.
The way I see the one hole game today is somewhat similar the poker we see today. Younger guys started play some so called "marginal hands" such as 74, k8, 34...etc and many people would say they play way too loose and against the percentage/odds. People would also say: in the long term, safer play(better player) would win more money than those loose aggressive play.
In the other hand, you gotta "play" to win, which means shoot at your own hole.
As the popular format of short race to 3 or 4 one-hole game today, the game is too short to really appreciate the "odds" & "percentage".
There is no right or wrong shot, as long as the shooter feels effective and comfortable to shoot with.
John did what he feels right & the results also surpport his style/method as well.
As to compare the different players
Didn't more people wanna bet on Tony when he played Gabe even on action report?
Didn't scott beat efren in a even race to 8 one hole game?
Does that mean Gabe & Scott are better players than tony & efren now??!
I guess everyone would have their own answer and all of them are right answers IMHO.
you dont win a game just by moving, you still gotta shoot the hole to win the game, which is what he did exactely.
The way I see the one hole game today is somewhat similar the poker we see today. Younger guys started play some so called "marginal hands" such as 74, k8, 34...etc and many people would say they play way too loose and against the percentage/odds. People would also say: in the long term, safer play(better player) would win more money than those loose aggressive play.
In the other hand, you gotta "play" to win, which means shoot at your own hole.
As the popular format of short race to 3 or 4 one-hole game today, the game is too short to really appreciate the "odds" & "percentage".
There is no right or wrong shot, as long as the shooter feels effective and comfortable to shoot with.
John did what he feels right & the results also surpport his style/method as well.
As to compare the different players
Didn't more people wanna bet on Tony when he played Gabe even on action report?
Didn't scott beat efren in a even race to 8 one hole game?
Does that mean Gabe & Scott are better players than tony & efren now??!
I guess everyone would have their own answer and all of them are right answers IMHO.
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hi
you know talk about the mental side of pool.
when i go to the world 14.1 i feel alot of pressure to win it when everybody knows im good at that game .then they announce me as mr400 then i go on to play like mr12 lol.
i go to the derby onehole and hardly anyone thinks i can win it incuding me.
well that removes expectations and pressure and i go on to win.
ive always done better when i say things like im the underdog i shouldt win etc ,it removes pressure.
i would have never said what scott said in the interview with like 4 players left . he said i feel im the favorite in every match i play.
thats his nature to be confident and something i wish i had more of, confidence in myself.
anyway my point is that put pressure on him and the fact that everyone figured he was going to win easy.
he had the same pressure i feel in the 14.1 tourney.
ive learned one thing, when theres a big crowd,cameras on ,big money on the line and a champion staring back at you it doesnt matter who your playing if you stand up there and fight back youll have a chance to win.
believe me scott will win more onehole tourneys i feel fortunate to have snuck by him this time.
frankly i respect his onehole game immensely to the point its almost fear, but i know if i get up there and dont faint hes going to have to try hard to win.
anyway thats some of the things bob hunter used to tell me.
i shouldnt pass this info along because you guys will shoot me down later in a tourney if you develop a tough mindset . lol
you know talk about the mental side of pool.
when i go to the world 14.1 i feel alot of pressure to win it when everybody knows im good at that game .then they announce me as mr400 then i go on to play like mr12 lol.
i go to the derby onehole and hardly anyone thinks i can win it incuding me.
well that removes expectations and pressure and i go on to win.
ive always done better when i say things like im the underdog i shouldt win etc ,it removes pressure.
i would have never said what scott said in the interview with like 4 players left . he said i feel im the favorite in every match i play.
thats his nature to be confident and something i wish i had more of, confidence in myself.
anyway my point is that put pressure on him and the fact that everyone figured he was going to win easy.
he had the same pressure i feel in the 14.1 tourney.
ive learned one thing, when theres a big crowd,cameras on ,big money on the line and a champion staring back at you it doesnt matter who your playing if you stand up there and fight back youll have a chance to win.
believe me scott will win more onehole tourneys i feel fortunate to have snuck by him this time.
frankly i respect his onehole game immensely to the point its almost fear, but i know if i get up there and dont faint hes going to have to try hard to win.
anyway thats some of the things bob hunter used to tell me.
i shouldnt pass this info along because you guys will shoot me down later in a tourney if you develop a tough mindset . lol
With no dissrespect to John who shot very well to win the DCC.
Scott miscued and sold out, scratched on a break and john ran 8 and then scott scratched on a shot that noone would have seen and john ran out.
The first game where scott was in control of it he won something like 8-1 ?
Not trying to make excuses for scott but these things really hurt you in a race to 3.
Scott miscued and sold out, scratched on a break and john ran 8 and then scott scratched on a shot that noone would have seen and john ran out.
The first game where scott was in control of it he won something like 8-1 ?
Not trying to make excuses for scott but these things really hurt you in a race to 3.
John in your posts you seem to be a very humble person. I hope you are that way in real life.
btw i think its very cool you take time to post on AZ.
btw i think its very cool you take time to post on AZ.
Exactly, this ain't brain science...or rocket surgery
My opinion in this matter goes a little like this...In one pocket you generally see two kinds of players, those who instigate the action and those who react to the action.
If there is not a shot to run out, instigators are looking for an opportunity to move balls in their favor and trap their opponent, so that they might run out in the next few innings.
Reactors, to the contrary, if there is not a shot to run out, are looking for a way to bunt whitey to a safe place so that they may live to fight another day.
More simply, instigators do not wait for their opponent to sell out, they force them to sell out. Reactors wait for their opponent to sell out, then tax them.
Instigators in this game include Efren, Frost, Owen, Chohan, JJ, Shannon, Corey. Not that I claim to ever know what the score is, but John strikes me as more of a reactor. Other reactors in my mind include Bustamante, Buddy, Hillbilly.
Just to be clear as mud, all instigators have a varying degrees of reactionary tendencies, and vice versa. It is clear, as many have said, that if John really wanted to learn to play the game in a more aggressive manner, he could.
You are correct, but the key is not to make those mistakes. After Scott won the first game, John capitalized on his mistakes and ran 8 and out, 9 and out (was at -1 that game), and 8 and out. I know Scott shouldn't have made those mistakes, but pretty damn sporty for someone to capitalize like that.