I dont see Lou being out of line here.Im sure everyone's glad he's posting but dosnt mean we have to agree with everything he's saying does it?
Some dont even need(want) his help but just like to hear his view on things.
John Schmidt's and Corey Deuel's comments on aiming systems
- Thread starter PoolSharkAllen
- Start date
I dont see Lou being out of line here.Im sure everyone's glad he's posting but dosnt mean we have to agree with everything he's saying does it?
Some dont even need(want) his help but just like to hear his view on things.
No, absolutely not ~ do not have to agree with anything at all CJ is saying, blind faith is still blind faith. But to dismiss what someone is saying as some Zen mumbo jumbo or whatever is just disrespectful to any poster and stifles reals discussion and may prevent someone from hearing his view on things, as you say. This is only my opinion. My other point of contention with Lou's post is that he said such information is "owed". No one is really owed anything from anyone...again in my opinion.
Hope you understand...
Peace.
~Razor
"Going back to
the shadows"
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I gave reasons repeatedly. Matt didn't understand them. Apparently you don't either.
And you're putting words in Mr. Wilson's mouth. He just said I was rude.
pj
chgo
I think it's because you're looking for a black and white answer. I wasn't looking for the physical explanation from CJ. I took what he said, went to my table and asked my mind to realize I need to prepare for the chance of not hitting where I think I'm hitting on the cue ball. I never really worried about it before. I figured it was a detail that a good stroke would iron out.
I let it sink in and went to auto pilot. I started to pay more attention to where I was hitting on the pocket and if I did miss-hit the cue ball, was I allowing myself room for error? It's a simple concept, but I never tried it before.
Well, I stabbed it. I would like to hear more from CJ. My mind is open and I know there are a ton of lurkers hoping this thread will stay on track. I like to ask questions at the end of a presentation, not during. They're more meaningful when I've gained some insight.
Best,
Mike
I understand Razor but we should all follow the rules of respect.
Just because some one is a great player doesn't give them any special rites.Not in my book.I myself have had some post here that where worthy of posting(I think) some where answered some weren't.
I have played for a long time and I have a good feel on how things work and so do a lot others here.
I dont need Cj help on pocketing balls.I dont mind listing to what he has to offer though.
Im glad he's posting really but for some reason i feel i know nothing and my thoughts are wrong just because of who I am and who he is.
I use to hear this a lot when I was younger player.
Respect is earned and not giving away and I still believe that today.
Take Care Anthony.
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Back in the day (60's) I didn't shoot center CB ball for most shots and I never heard of BHE. I commited to memory the effective cut angles that resulted from applying english to the CB and the results of where the CB would hit the rail and spin off of it.
I would see the shot and shape and get down on the shot with the cue to the side of the CB to apply english. if the shot was straight in, I would often use center CB.
20 years ago, I was told that I should learn how to shoot with center CB and memorize the resulting cut angles when aiming with the double distance method (I realized this myself). I knew about swerve (I didn't call it that) and how it could be useful. I didn't conciously allow for squirt (I didn't call it that) for it was incorporated into the resulting cut angles. When I got a new cue, often I would have to relearn the resulting cut angles due to the different squirt characteristics.
I realized that I could start at center of the CB and swipe at it's side with my tip/stroke and effect the desired english. I didn't know about BHE and if I wanted to aim at the side of the CB, I would move my stance to the opposite side a bit or move my bridge (FHE) a bit to the side.
Back in the day, I used a tight bridge with powder. Now I use mostly an open bridge for I can see the top of the shaft for aiming. When I appled english with an open bridge, I noticed that the shaft would move to the side of the "V" as/after the tip hit the CB. I thought that the CB mass was causing the lighter shaft to move to the side or up with follow. I thought that I was getting more spin when the tip glanced/swiped off of the CB.
Everything discussed here is viable (if you understand the words) and one can learn to adjust by HAMB for all of it. If it works for you, you will embrace it, if not you will soon discard it.
Discussing aiming and shooting is percieved differently and is often described differently with different names other than those used here like squirt, swerve etc., and as has been documented and taught. These subjects are not discussed in the pool hall where, "mums the word" or "don't feed the fish."
This in part, is why these instructional forums are usefull and can decrease the learning process. It may not make you a better shooter, but you can at least talk the talk.
Just sayin.
I would see the shot and shape and get down on the shot with the cue to the side of the CB to apply english. if the shot was straight in, I would often use center CB.
20 years ago, I was told that I should learn how to shoot with center CB and memorize the resulting cut angles when aiming with the double distance method (I realized this myself). I knew about swerve (I didn't call it that) and how it could be useful. I didn't conciously allow for squirt (I didn't call it that) for it was incorporated into the resulting cut angles. When I got a new cue, often I would have to relearn the resulting cut angles due to the different squirt characteristics.
I realized that I could start at center of the CB and swipe at it's side with my tip/stroke and effect the desired english. I didn't know about BHE and if I wanted to aim at the side of the CB, I would move my stance to the opposite side a bit or move my bridge (FHE) a bit to the side.
Back in the day, I used a tight bridge with powder. Now I use mostly an open bridge for I can see the top of the shaft for aiming. When I appled english with an open bridge, I noticed that the shaft would move to the side of the "V" as/after the tip hit the CB. I thought that the CB mass was causing the lighter shaft to move to the side or up with follow. I thought that I was getting more spin when the tip glanced/swiped off of the CB.
Everything discussed here is viable (if you understand the words) and one can learn to adjust by HAMB for all of it. If it works for you, you will embrace it, if not you will soon discard it.
Discussing aiming and shooting is percieved differently and is often described differently with different names other than those used here like squirt, swerve etc., and as has been documented and taught. These subjects are not discussed in the pool hall where, "mums the word" or "don't feed the fish."
This in part, is why these instructional forums are usefull and can decrease the learning process. It may not make you a better shooter, but you can at least talk the talk.
Just sayin.
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The Signpost ahead reads 'The AZ Billiards Zone'
My arguments don't get a free pass? What arguments are you referring to? To my knowledge (or intention) I haven't argued with anything or anyone....you also say I need to explain things with "logic and/or science? What on earth is that supposed to mean? Are you suggesting my points have been made illogically and unscientifically?
My arguments don't get a free pass? What arguments are you referring to? To my knowledge (or intention) I haven't argued with anything or anyone....you also say I need to explain things with "logic and/or science? What on earth is that supposed to mean? Are you suggesting my points have been made illogically and unscientifically?
'The Outer Limits' of the pool world
Wow, I'm impressed, MIKE... you are deciphering my "unsophisticated explanations" LOL :rotflmao:..... I swear I had to read your post twice, I thought for a moment I had written it to myself by mistake.....it makes me feel 300% better, I swear I thought I had went to hang out with some friends and come back to the TWILIGHT ZONE ... sometimes life seems to be wired backwards in the pool world....I bend over backwards to help people figure techniques out that took me and every other Champion Player a years of "misspent youth" to understand and apply and get ridiculed for it
I remember when I had my Pro Tour (the PCA) I was told I was treating the players TOO WELL.....I logically thought that was a good thing and a big promoter in the game said "many people in the pool world want to have something to complain and moan about or they're not unhappy enough" ..... I struggled with that concept and still obviously do, but wtf ...like they used to say in Green City "I can't dance and it's too wet to plow, so I might as well be doing what I'm doing"
Got your message. :smile: This simple idea is like a primer for consistency. The idea of the bet is really a way of looking at hitting the largest available part of the pocket. We always think we're trying to do this when we aim. But we should be looking at our thinking process we use before we aim.
The idea is obvious about being able to hit one side of the cue ball consistently while hitting dead center is infinitely harder. That is the simple lesson. You will not be able to hit dead center on the cue ball every time. You will eventually hit a touch left or right of center.
Applying this way of thinking and accepting its possibility gives the subconscious mind another tool to employ in its calculations. So simple and obvious, yet possibly overlooked by most.
CJ, please tweak this post as needed. If you care to continue, I would be interested.
Best,
Mike
PS This is pretty deep stuff for a guy from Green City!
Wow, I'm impressed, MIKE... you are deciphering my "unsophisticated explanations" LOL :rotflmao:..... I swear I had to read your post twice, I thought for a moment I had written it to myself by mistake.....it makes me feel 300% better, I swear I thought I had went to hang out with some friends and come back to the TWILIGHT ZONE ... sometimes life seems to be wired backwards in the pool world....I bend over backwards to help people figure techniques out that took me and every other Champion Player a years of "misspent youth" to understand and apply and get ridiculed for it
I remember when I had my Pro Tour (the PCA) I was told I was treating the players TOO WELL.....I logically thought that was a good thing and a big promoter in the game said "many people in the pool world want to have something to complain and moan about or they're not unhappy enough" ..... I struggled with that concept and still obviously do, but wtf ...like they used to say in Green City "I can't dance and it's too wet to plow, so I might as well be doing what I'm doing"
yeah, we've heard about these members from several people, and understand where they're coming from... they always serve a purpose... surely when they're not on their computers they're out spreading joy to the world
I think the difference is that is perhaps is indeed to crass "to question" a pro, as opposed to "asking a pro a question." I believe there to be a difference. I'm quite sure you don't.
Just my .02
What are you specifically trying to teach me?
I don't consider myself one of the science guys, so no offense on the pool nerd comment. And you're right, many a high level player cannot explain what they do and how they do it. And so, sometimes, they come up with half-baked explanations. Not saying that's the case here.
Lou Figueroa
lol. I didn't say anyone was "owed" anything. I said their questions "deserve" legitimate answers. A small but important distinction, apparently lost on some.
Having an old pool star hanging around is fine and I've enjoyed some of his posts. But if he's going to get into the technical stuff, say as opposed to some war stories, I would like to see some rational explanation of the techniques he's sharing.
oh, and BTW, I am here because I enjoy talking about pool and making the occasional comment. If you don't care for my perspective, comments, and stories, then I would suggest you take your own advice and ignore them. Kind of like I'm going to do with you from here on out ;-)
Lou Figueroa
Well, let me give you an example.
PJ (and I believe Neil) asked you about the test for hitting the CB off center. You responded “Hold on for a minute and I'll send the info telepathically.” To me, that would not be very logical. But maybe that was you just making a funny.
But then, in your next post you went on to say, “You don't really think you can learn without doing....I can tell if you're applying this this on the table or just trying to pick holes in it by how you frame your responses..there's one question you should be asking already....so, with all due respect, if you're looking for me to magically explain it so you somehow get "enlightened" you probably already know too much ... you may need to empty your tea cup LoL” Once again, not a particularly logical or scientifically based response. (And that last part was the Zen thing I was referring to.)
Your “argument” was about how hitting the CB off center reduces the effect of hitting it left or right of where the player intends to hit it.
Lou Figueroa
What I've been saying is that it isn't obvious how hitting one side of the cue ball can increase the normal pocket-width margin of error - in fact it's illogical unless I'm missing something.
I'm not committed to convincing you or your unquestioning fans (I'm a fan too) that a real question exists - I've explained my take on it a couple of different ways and don't want to beat that horse back to life. Readers (well, some of them) can make up their own minds about whether you've already addressed it or even need to.
pj
chgo
Maybe you can help me understand the difference by quoting me "questioning" and showing how I could have instead "asked a question".
pj
chgo
PJ, consider if you will, how you might respond to a complete stranger walking up to you in a poolhall and "questioning" you.
What would be your response to that person...not just initially but after several attempts by yourself to convey your answer politely and accurately?
Just the shoe on the other foot, so to speak.
What would be your response to that person...not just initially but after several attempts by yourself to convey your answer politely and accurately?
Just the shoe on the other foot, so to speak.
Living Legend
Banned
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As a pool hobbyist who just joined a league about a year ago, I find this thread and discussion board kind of silly sometimes.
I am a technical person and I like to understand the science behind things. However, I have learned, sometimes it is best to put my science brain to the side and just try a proposed technique.
I like the golf analogy. People are not machines. A golf stroke will never be 100% perfect, 100% of the time. In golf, a person's swing will have a natural tendency to draw or fade. Even the pros. So it makes sense for a golfer to use that natural tendency.
I think the same could be said for pool. My misses tend to be on the same side. When I accept I am not a machine and my errors tend to be repeatable, CJ's suggestion makes scientific sense. Regardless, the table is where is matters.
I am a technical person and I like to understand the science behind things. However, I have learned, sometimes it is best to put my science brain to the side and just try a proposed technique.
I like the golf analogy. People are not machines. A golf stroke will never be 100% perfect, 100% of the time. In golf, a person's swing will have a natural tendency to draw or fade. Even the pros. So it makes sense for a golfer to use that natural tendency.
I think the same could be said for pool. My misses tend to be on the same side. When I accept I am not a machine and my errors tend to be repeatable, CJ's suggestion makes scientific sense. Regardless, the table is where is matters.
Back in the day (60's) I didn't shoot center CB ball for most shots and I never heard of BHE. I commited to memory the effective cut angles that resulted from applying english to the CB and the results of where the CB would hit the rail and spin off of it.
I would see the shot and shape and get down on the shot with the cue to the side of the CB to apply english. if the shot was straight in, I would often use center CB.
20 years ago, I was told that I should learn how to shoot with center CB and memorize the resulting cut angles when aiming with the double distance method (I realized this myself). I knew about swerve (I didn't call it that) and how it could be useful. I didn't conciously allow for squirt (I didn't call it that) for it was incorporated into the resulting cut angles. When I got a new cue, often I would have to relearn the resulting cut angles due to the different squirt characteristics.
I realized that I could start at center of the CB and swipe at it's side with my tip/stroke and effect the desired english. I didn't know about BHE and if I wanted to aim at the side of the CB, I would move my stance to the opposite side a bit or move my bridge (FHE) a bit to the side.
Back in the day, I used a tight bridge with powder. Now I use mostly an open bridge for I can see the top of the shaft for aiming. When I appled english with an open bridge, I noticed that the shaft would move to the side of the "V" as/after the tip hit the CB. I thought that the CB mass was causing the lighter shaft to move to the side or up with follow. I thought that I was getting more spin when the tip glanced/swiped off of the CB.
Everything discussed here is viable (if you understand the words) and one can learn to adjust by HAMB for all of it. If it works for you, you will embrace it, if not you will soon discard it.
Discussing aiming and shooting is percieved differently and is often described differently with different names other than those used here like squirt, swerve etc., and as has been documented and taught. These subjects are not discussed in the pool hall where, "mums the word" or "don't feed the fish."
This in part, is why these instructional forums are usefull and can decrease the learning process. It may not make you a better shooter, but you can at least talk the talk.
Just sayin.
Sounds like you've been on a journey.From the looks of things some of you are going again so pack your bags and without a destination and the price of gas this is going to cost you.
Just kidding
About the Gas