John Schmidt's and Corey Deuel's comments on aiming systems

cfrandy said:
NOT TRUE! No where in the article does Efren say that! He said exactly what I quoted...nothing more and nothing less!
Pro player Nesli O'Hare does say "The technique I use was taught to me by Efren Reyes.According to Efren, there are three kinds of hits on any object ball. First, there's looking at the center of cue ball to the point of aim if the shot is a full ball hit. If not, you can divide the object ball into four quarters, sighting your cue ball edge to the point of aim. When using inside English with a medium-to-hard stroke, you don't change the point of aim. With outside english, you aim a sixteenth of an inch fuller on the object ball than you normally would. But, all bets are off when using a soft stroke, because of deflection, etc." Nesli said this, not Efren!
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Hmmmm...Efren told Nesli Crunch.

Inside English, contact point, OB quarters, CB edge, outside english and speed....sounds familiar.

Good stuff.

Be well.
 
it also requires a willingness to do uncomfortable things, that go against our nature

cfrandy said:
CJ Wiley said:
That may be the biggest understatement in:groucho: this thread.

"HAMB" - hitting a million balls to learn pool is like hitting a million keys to learn to play the piano.

Not a good analogy, since on pianopractising.com the author recommends to his students: "Practise as much as you can but fully concentrated; this is the secret. The amount of hours is trivial." and goes on to say that 3 hours a day is fine for most. I'm no mathematician, but I think in 3 hours a day you could probably hit the keys (88) about 64,000 times...in which case it would take you less than 16 days of practice to hit the keys 1 million times!
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Hitting a million pool balls or hitting a million of anything won't develop good habits, let alone advanced fundamentals.

It takes much more that just the action, it also requires a willingness to do uncomfortable things, that go against our "human nature"......because, in pool "if it feels right, it's probably wrong" (not the most effective way)
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CJ Wiley said:
cfrandy said:
Hitting a million pool balls or hitting a million of anything won't develop good habits, let alone advanced fundamentals.

It takes much more that just the action, it also requires a willingness to do uncomfortable things, that go against our "human nature"......because, in pool "if it feels right, it's probably wrong" (not the most effective way)
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No one denies the importance of learning the fundamentals, but it is practicing what you have learned that makes you a better pool player, pianist, golfer.
I play golf in a men's league. I started as a D-player. In less than one year, I became an A-player. Simply because I took lessons to learn the fundamentals and then practiced what I learned. Every person I have ever taught with the fundamentals of pool have become better players because I insisted they practice what they have learned. It is the people who think that they need only find the "secret" to the sport that NEVER advance! There is NO secret. There is only a devotion to learn the skills and then practice what you have learned...that is NO secret!

Every shot in golf or pool will "feel right" if you have made that shot before! Wouldn't you agree, regardless of the difficulty in a particular shot...if you had made the shot many times before, you will have the confidence to make it again?
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cfrandy said:
CJ Wiley said:
No one denies the importance of learning the fundamentals, but it is practicing what you have learned that makes you a better pool player, pianist, golfer.
I play golf in a men's league. I started as a D-player. In less than one year, I became an A-player. Simply because I took lessons to learn the fundamentals and then practiced what I learned. Every person I have ever taught with the fundamentals of pool have become better players because I insisted they practice what they have learned. It is the people who think that they need only find the "secret" to the sport that NEVER advance! There is NO secret. There is only a devotion to learn the skills and then practice what you have learned...that is NO secret!

Every shot in golf or pool will "feel right" if you have made that shot before! Wouldn't you agree, regardless of the difficulty in a particular shot...if you had made the shot many times before, you will have the confidence to make it again?
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The problem is under pressure things rarely "feel right".....pressure changes many player's games......this is when creating larger margins of error becomes vital.
Being-Wrong-Adventures-in-the-Margin-of-Error-B003JBHW08-L.jpg
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Removing all doubt!

CJ Wiley said:
cfrandy said:
The problem is under pressure things rarely "feel right".....pressure changes many player's games......this is when creating larger margins of error becomes vital.
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I guess we will have to agree to disagree!
"Feeling right" or "feeling pressure" is an emotional aspect of the game. You remove the emotional aspect of the game when you build unshakeable confidence in your shotmaking abilities and aiming becomes unconscious (this is done with practice). There can be NO "larger margin of error" then when you remove all doubt!

BTW, it does not matter what "method" of aiming one chooses. If you find a "method" that works for YOU then practice your shotmaking with that "method" and build unshakeable confidence in your abilities. Don't let anyone tell you there is a better way if you have already found a way that works for YOU!

In golf, Lee Trevino, Seve Ballesteros, Moe Norman, Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer. Jim Furyk, Ben Hogan, and Sam Sneed were all great shotmakers...yet not one of them swung a golf club like the other! You do not need to aim in pool like ANYONE else...you simply need to find what works for YOU and then practice what you have learned!
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CJ Wiley said:
cfrandy said:
The problem is under pressure things rarely "feel right".....pressure changes many player's games......this is when creating larger margins of error becomes vital.
Being-Wrong-Adventures-in-the-Margin-of-Error-B003JBHW08-L.jpg
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When the action's tough, the anaconda crawls out of your shirt and takes hold of your throat. The blood starts pumping. You either run out or your opponent will run out.

Things have to be automatic. You can't be hoping to make the next ball. I rely on my training and know I'm going to do my best. I set the pressure aside and just recognize it's there. Then it's not so tough. I understand my ability is strong enough through practice to get out.

Little things like a margin for error make more of a difference. It never hurts to maximize your assets and create a greater chance of being successful.

Best,
Mike
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cfrandy said:
I guess we will have to agree to disagree!
"Feeling right" or "feeling pressure" is an emotional aspect of the game. You remove the emotional aspect of the game when you build unshakeable confidence in your shotmaking abilities and aiming becomes unconscious (this is done with practice). There can be NO "larger margin of error" then when you remove all doubt!

BTW, it does not matter what "method" of aiming one chooses. If you find a "method" that works for YOU then practice your shotmaking with that "method" and build unshakeable confidence in your abilities. Don't let anyone tell you there is a better way if you have already found a way that works for YOU!

In golf, Lee Trevino, Seve Ballesteros, Moe Norman, Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer. Jim Furyk, Ben Hogan, and Sam Sneed were all great shotmakers...yet not one of them swung a golf club like the other! You do not need to aim in pool like ANYONE else...you simply need to find what works for YOU and then practice what you have learned!
Click to expand...

I have a magazine (I think I still have it somewhere.) that shows many many Pro Golfers at the impact position, including all you mentioned but Furyk & at impact they are all in the same position. If their physical attributes were photo shopped out you would not be able to tell who's who.

I don't exactly know what that has to do with the topic other than there is more than one way to get where one 'needs' to be, but where one needs to be is the same for all...at least when it comes to hitting a golf ball well. I think the same can be said for pool. Piston, Piston J, Pendulum, McCready (spelling), Wiley, etc. Does not matter. It's the impact position that matters & what happens during contact that matters. If how one 'aims' or targets gets the cue ball where it needs to be then it's working fine. If not, maybe a change would help.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

PS Have you taken lessons from Mr. Lee?
 
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When playing under pressure, it is the mental part of your game that needs to be sharp. In addition to mastering the physical skills of executing a shot, you need also master the mental skills! IMO, the best book on the subject is: Pleasures of Small Motions: Mastering the Mental Game of Pocket Billiards by Bob Francher. It is available on Amazon and it may be the best $15 you will ever spend on pool instruction!
 
cfrandy said:
When playing under pressure, it is the mental part of your game that needs to be sharp. In addition to mastering the physical skills of executing a shot, you need also master the mental skills! IMO, the best book on the subject is: Pleasures of Small Motions: Mastering the Mental Game of Pocket Billiards by Bob Francher. It is available on Amazon and it may be the best $15 you will ever spend on pool instruction!
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I'm not sure if it's 'mental skills' rather than what has been discussed here lately & referred to as Heart.

I don't think one can learn Heart form a book.

Could you give a brief summary of what is said in the book?

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

PS From what are you retired & why the Road Runner? Were you a regional sales rep. or the like?
 
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ENGLISH! said:
If how one 'aims' or targets gets the cue ball where it needs to be then it's working fine. If not, maybe a change would help.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick
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And if the above is your new philosophy to live by which you truly believe in, I welcome the "new you" and we should all start having a lot more in common.

Change can help and does for many. They shouldn't be raked over the coals or belittled, especially when they've been very good players who got even better.
Nobody is stupid enough to stick with something new if it makes them worse, wouldn't you agree?
 
ENGLISH! said:
I have a magazine (I think I still have it somewhere.) that shows many many Pro Golfers at the impact position, including all you mentioned but Furyk & at impact they are all in the same position. If their physical attributes were photo shopped out you would not be able to tell who's who.

I don't exactly know what that has to do with the topic other than there is more than one way to get where one 'needs' to be, but where one needs to be is the same for all...at least when it comes to hitting a golf ball well. I think the same can be said for pool. Piston, Piston J, Pendulum, McCready (spelling), Wiley, etc. Does not matter. It's the impact position that matters & what happens during contact that matters. If how one 'aims' or targets gets the cue ball where it needs to be then it's working fine. If not, maybe a change would help.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

PS Have you taken lessons from Mr. Lee?
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A great point. It doesn't matter how you aim...it only matters that you pocket the ball!

No I have not taken lessons from Mr Lee. I began to learn pool when I was 6 yo and was taught by an old Chicago hustler, Booie The Trench. He was my uncle and owned a pool hall in Chicago. My mother worked for him and would bring me to work. When it was slow, Booie taught me to play pool.
Through the years I have gotten tips from many pros. Most notably Nick Varner, Robin Bell (Dodson), Johnny Archer, Kim Davenport, and Shawn Putman.
Now at age 66, I'm blind in one eye (PVD) and I can't see out of the other (retina degeneration)...but I still play pretty good pool. Not because I can aim, but because I can leave. If with every shot you make, you left yourself a shot you have made a thousand times...you don't need to aim! That's what Booie taught me!
Like Mr Lee, 30+ years ago I was an instructor too. Now I'm retired and play only with my friends locally. I actually think I enjoy pool more now than ever before.
Randy
 
ENGLISH! said:
I'm not sure if it's 'mental skills' rather than what has been discussed here lately & referred to as Heart.

I don't think one can learn Heart form a book.

Could you give a brief summary of what is said in the book?

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

PS From what are you retired & why the Road Runner? Were you a regional sales rep. or the like?
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Heart can only be described as a passion for the game. Passion is what drives us to devote the time necessary to develop the skills to become better players!

Road Runner? I was an OTR truck driver for many years and traveled to all 48 states playing in every pool hall I could find. Retired and disabled. Fortunately I was able to retire early by selling the cues I had collected over the years. At one time I had about 100 original one and two-piece Titlist cues, plus many Titlist conversions.

It has been a long time since I read the book, but here is what is said on the back cover: From the Back Cover

Everyone who plays pool knows that it is "mostly mental," but the conventional wisdom about the mental game is about as accurate as the idea that the earth is flat. Until now, no one with any expertise on how the human mind works has bothered to write about pool. In Pleasures of Small Motions, Bob Fancher, a psychotherapist and pool columnist, breaks new ground by applying good science to the mental game of billiards.This book does for pool what Timothy Gallwey's bestselling "The Inner Game" books did for golf and tennis. Fancher explains how the conscious and unconscious mind work together, prescribes drills to help players improve, advises on mastering emotion and developing rhythm, explains the difference between concentration and focus, and gives invaluable insight on competitive play. (6 x 9, 160 pages, illustrations)Bob Fancher's column, "Dr. Bob, Pool Shrink," appears monthly in The American Cueist. He earned his Ph.D. at Vanderbilt University and practiced psychotherapy in New York for fourteen years. His acclaimed book Cultures of Healing has been used in classes at Columbia University, Princeton, and many other schools, and is writing has appeared in The Washington Post and other publications. He lives in Austin, Texas.

What I liked about the book is it is very easy to read. It is also the highest rated book on the subject so I guess many others agree!
Randy
 
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SpiderWebComm said:
And if the above is your new philosophy to live by which you truly believe in, I welcome the "new you" and we should all start having a lot more in common.

Change can help and does for many. They shouldn't be raked over the coals or belittled, especially when they've been very good players who got even better.
Nobody is stupid enough to stick with something new if it makes them worse, wouldn't you agree?
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Hi Dave,

You've coaxed me in.

I TOTALLY agree with your 2nd. paragraph. I also think the same should not happen to one for having a different opinion or one that has formed a different conclusion.

As to your 1st. sentence it is not a new philosophy of mine it has always been my way of thinking.

I would welcome & appreciate the welcome & a focus on what we do have in common, which is a love for the game & a desire to both get better at the game & to help others to get better at the game.

You're quote of me has always been my way of thinking. I've never tried to get anyone to change or drop something that is working for them... nor have I suggested that one should not try something different to see if it can be an improvement of some kind for them. Just the opposite, I encourage experimentation. That's how we learn new things & better things.

I think that I've been unjustly lumped in with those that have 'opposed' CTE in the past for a variety of reasons that may have been unfounded & based in areas other than logic. I'm not one of them.

For reasons that are obvious to some, please check your PMs for more.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick
 
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Pleasures of Small Motions

cfrandy said:
It has been a long time since I read the book, but here is what is said on the back cover: From the Back Cover

Everyone who plays pool knows that it is "mostly mental," but the conventional wisdom about the mental game is about as accurate as the idea that the earth is flat. Until now, no one with any expertise on how the human mind works has bothered to write about pool. In Pleasures of Small Motions, Bob Fancher, a psychotherapist and pool columnist, breaks new ground by applying good science to the mental game of billiards.This book does for pool what Timothy Gallwey's bestselling "The Inner Game" books did for golf and tennis. Fancher explains how the conscious and unconscious mind work together, prescribes drills to help players improve, advises on mastering emotion and developing rhythm, explains the difference between concentration and focus, and gives invaluable insight on competitive play. (6 x 9, 160 pages, illustrations)Bob Fancher's column, "Dr. Bob, Pool Shrink," appears monthly in The American Cueist. He earned his Ph.D. at Vanderbilt University and practiced psychotherapy in New York for fourteen years. His acclaimed book Cultures of Healing has been used in classes at Columbia University, Princeton, and many other schools, and is writing has appeared in The Washington Post and other publications. He lives in Austin, Texas.

What I liked about the book is it is very easy to read. It is also the highest rated book on the subject so I guess many others agree!
Randy
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I like the book's central message: enjoy the process and don't get too hung up on the "goal" of winning. I notice that when I'm playing well the "pleasures of small motions" are all there is - the game's outcome isn't important, or even in mind.

pj
chgo
 
"...but I still play pretty good pool. Not because I can aim, but because I can leave. If with every shot you make, you left yourself a shot you have made a thousand times...you don't need to aim!...."
Randy

Another aspect of aiming....not aiming.
 
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