Aranas would have no chance in the long run against Archer, Reyes, Strickland, Varner, Sigel, Hall, or Parica in their prime.
Johnny Archer vs SVB- Subjective Question
- Thread starter billb
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Aranas would have no chance in the long run against Archer, Reyes, Strickland, Varner, Sigel, Hall, or Parica in their prime.
CaptainBly
Registered
It seems as though some of you think the 80's and 90's were ancient history? I worked in a pool hall starting in 1990 while still in high school. I had, and did almost every player in our area, a jump cue. A few of the other halls had Simonis cloth, sadly ours did not. I mean they have been around for hundreds of years! However, our cloth was not slow thick nap.
Johnny was incredible during his era, as was Earl, Efren, Sigel, Crane, Mosconi, and probably the best player ever, Worst. Just to name a few of the all time greats.
It is very hard to judge players by era's as so much changes about the game and the way it is approached by the top guy's era to era.
However it is a fun exercise:
I would say that SVB gets the nod as the better player. To me, he is just overall better at everything than Johnny especially the break. That is no knock on Johnny, he dominated the 90's much like Shane in the 2000's.
Soon we will be able to have the Filler SVB comparisons. Still a few years out though.
Johnny was incredible during his era, as was Earl, Efren, Sigel, Crane, Mosconi, and probably the best player ever, Worst. Just to name a few of the all time greats.
It is very hard to judge players by era's as so much changes about the game and the way it is approached by the top guy's era to era.
However it is a fun exercise:
I would say that SVB gets the nod as the better player. To me, he is just overall better at everything than Johnny especially the break. That is no knock on Johnny, he dominated the 90's much like Shane in the 2000's.
Soon we will be able to have the Filler SVB comparisons. Still a few years out though.
Shane is the most dominant rotation player in history, gambling or tournament. He is still going, he's not done. Johnny is a great player, a hall of fame champion, but Shane is in a class by himself.
The real match of the century is available to us now and should be played, Filler versus Shane, long race.
The real match of the century is available to us now and should be played, Filler versus Shane, long race.
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animatedvmaker
Banned
Question is though, would they be able to play at that same high level using older equipment, that was only available 25+ years ago. I am talking before the 1st layered tip came out.
animatedvmaker
Banned
Here is a Johnny Archer match from 1989.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LuzdviH4tk
I do not know, but that cloth looks to be very slow. Not the same super fast cloth that the pro's have played on in more recent years.
I might be wrong though.
animatedvmaker
Banned
Off topic, but I wonder if Shane would play Filler. Only asking because Shane is not really in his prime anymore. Do you think he could beat Filler in a long race?
IMO, I would take Shane over Archer.
The one I would take over Shane would be Varner, who is, IMO, the best pool player that United States ever produced, based on all games.
Convince me I am wrong.
Buddy Hall is considered the best in 9 ball ever, and he played incredible banks, and one pocket. But he told me his high run was "less than 100", and probably closer to 50. He said he just never played it much.
Ken
The one I would take over Shane would be Varner, who is, IMO, the best pool player that United States ever produced, based on all games.
Convince me I am wrong.
Buddy Hall is considered the best in 9 ball ever, and he played incredible banks, and one pocket. But he told me his high run was "less than 100", and probably closer to 50. He said he just never played it much.
Ken
SVB is my pick and it's not even close. You really think the players these days don't have big enough strokes to play on slow cloth? If anything, in my experience, slow cloth and huge pocket make it easier to play. You can hit everything firm which is more comfortable. Touch shots become easier, floating across the line of the shot becomes easier, etc. And the pockets being so big helps with all that. If you had to pound balls on 4" pockets all day you'd see a lot more balls missed.
HUH????? He got beat by TWENTY-SEVEN games. That is a complete old-school ass whippin. He was never in it. DD is good but not on the same planet as Filler.
I am also of the opinion that solely based on skill sets, svb's best is better than Archer's best.
That said, both play/ played pool at level 10 and one only needs to go to level 7 or 8 to play perfect 9b.
That said, both play/ played pool at level 10 and one only needs to go to level 7 or 8 to play perfect 9b.
My worthless opinion is this:
You take the top 20 players from the 80's/90's and put them against the top 20 today....the #20 player from yesteryear would not be as good as the #20 player of today. Devolving backwards, I think you'd have to get to around player #8 or 10 before the gap begins to narrow.
The top 5 from each era would be pretty much a toss-up if all players involved had to play on equipment somewhere in-between today's conditions and the conditions from the 80's.
I'm only giving Shane the narrowest of edge over Johnny. Even then, on any given day the top 5 or 6 from either era could beat any one of their opponents.
Maniac
You take the top 20 players from the 80's/90's and put them against the top 20 today....the #20 player from yesteryear would not be as good as the #20 player of today. Devolving backwards, I think you'd have to get to around player #8 or 10 before the gap begins to narrow.
The top 5 from each era would be pretty much a toss-up if all players involved had to play on equipment somewhere in-between today's conditions and the conditions from the 80's.
I'm only giving Shane the narrowest of edge over Johnny. Even then, on any given day the top 5 or 6 from either era could beat any one of their opponents.
Maniac
Well said. IMO top players from any era would adjust-n-compete with anyone. Talent and skill will rise to the top anytime. I got to see Buddy more than i did Archer. That man played like Einstein. He might not miss a shot at his hole for a couple days. Unreal.
From the match up that they tried to do a few months ago, Shane will play Filler in a 10 ball long race (pretty sure he can get staked) but Filler doesn't want him that way. I think Filler would be OK with a long race in 9 ball, but I'm not sure Shane will do that.
In other words, they are afraid of each other and they are both happy the other is afraid of them!
They are both looking to level the playing field. I think Shane can be just as dominant as ever. The thing is, champions go through slow times, often inexplicable. Jack Nicklaus had a two year period mid-career where he looked like a normal golf pro. Then he rebounded back to legend status. A lot of it has to do with high public expectations, celebrity social schedule, attaining life goals, etc.
I have seen streaks before in sports (especially golf) . I'm not sure if Filler can keep playing at this level, but we know Shane can.
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Outside of the equipment, we are talking about just pure skill at the game. Shotmaking, position, breaking, things like that. We can't compare equipment since that would be silly. We may as well just ask "is equipment better now than 40 years ago" if we factor in equipment changes. It's like saying "take a modern fighter pilot and stick them in a WW2 plane with no training vs a pilot of that era, who would fly better".
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Johnny
Gotta chuckle about Johnny being weak kicking. He came into a small place he had never seen before. Won the coin flip. Bar box eight ball. He calls the eight ball in the corner on the break. Done. He called it in the side on the break. Done. He calls it in the side on the break. Done. Everybody in the place was telling me to quit by then. "I'll see that one more time!" The eight ball had been slow rolling in the side and this time it stopped in the jaws, and there ain't much jaw in the sides of those old Valleys!
I got a little of my own back that game and the next few. Funny thing, this was late eighties, maybe early nineties, I had never heard of Johnny Archer. I decided I had better let him shoot, didn't want to lose him when I was in the black now. I froze the cue ball to my ball and between it and the foot rail about an inch off the rail. All of his balls plus about three or four of mine were still on the table so he had about ten balls worth of traffic on that bar table to deal with.
He was going to have to kick into the foot rail with side spin to even hit one of his balls with a two rail kick. Even hitting his ball wasn't going to help, I had my balls blocking the two pockets his balls were near. As he waved his stick around studying the shot though it was obvious he was going for the fifteen ball, almost frozen on the head rail and about a diamond out from the pocket. A shot so ridiculous I hadn't even considered it. It was obvious Johnny was!
The shot was a Z bank, eight rails, hitting every rail on the table at least once, two of them twice. Johnny fired, the cue ball rolled clean through all of that traffic and hit the fifteen. It had ran out of steam and the fifteen stopped in the jaws of the corner pocket he was trying to put it in.
Even without the fifteen ball falling that remains the most impressive shot I have personally seen in fifty years of playing pool. I tried it for several hours over the next two weeks, first with the balls as I remembered them, then just using my blocking ball, the cue ball, and the fifteen. Trying the shot dozens of times with an empty table I never managed to even hit the fifteen.
Johnny at his best, Shane at his best, if they played eleven times, one would probably win five times and the other one six. It would be purely a given day thing. My bet is kicking isn't where anyone would find Johnny at his best deficient!
Hu
Gotta chuckle about Johnny being weak kicking. He came into a small place he had never seen before. Won the coin flip. Bar box eight ball. He calls the eight ball in the corner on the break. Done. He called it in the side on the break. Done. He calls it in the side on the break. Done. Everybody in the place was telling me to quit by then. "I'll see that one more time!" The eight ball had been slow rolling in the side and this time it stopped in the jaws, and there ain't much jaw in the sides of those old Valleys!
I got a little of my own back that game and the next few. Funny thing, this was late eighties, maybe early nineties, I had never heard of Johnny Archer. I decided I had better let him shoot, didn't want to lose him when I was in the black now. I froze the cue ball to my ball and between it and the foot rail about an inch off the rail. All of his balls plus about three or four of mine were still on the table so he had about ten balls worth of traffic on that bar table to deal with.
He was going to have to kick into the foot rail with side spin to even hit one of his balls with a two rail kick. Even hitting his ball wasn't going to help, I had my balls blocking the two pockets his balls were near. As he waved his stick around studying the shot though it was obvious he was going for the fifteen ball, almost frozen on the head rail and about a diamond out from the pocket. A shot so ridiculous I hadn't even considered it. It was obvious Johnny was!
The shot was a Z bank, eight rails, hitting every rail on the table at least once, two of them twice. Johnny fired, the cue ball rolled clean through all of that traffic and hit the fifteen. It had ran out of steam and the fifteen stopped in the jaws of the corner pocket he was trying to put it in.
Even without the fifteen ball falling that remains the most impressive shot I have personally seen in fifty years of playing pool. I tried it for several hours over the next two weeks, first with the balls as I remembered them, then just using my blocking ball, the cue ball, and the fifteen. Trying the shot dozens of times with an empty table I never managed to even hit the fifteen.
Johnny at his best, Shane at his best, if they played eleven times, one would probably win five times and the other one six. It would be purely a given day thing. My bet is kicking isn't where anyone would find Johnny at his best deficient!
Hu
Alex thought Johnny’s high gear was absolutely frightening.
‘Course, it didn’t stop him from asking to play a set for 10Gs.
Alex was in his early twenties then and tried to shove his chips every day.
....he thinks he might’ve got lucky not getting faded...he loved Johnny’s game.
‘Course, it didn’t stop him from asking to play a set for 10Gs.
Alex was in his early twenties then and tried to shove his chips every day.
....he thinks he might’ve got lucky not getting faded...he loved Johnny’s game.
TAR 26 -- May 25-27, 2012 in the TAR studio, Las Vegas
10-Ball, best 2 out of 3 races to 25 -- won by Archer
Diamond 9-foot table with 4 1/8" corner pockets, Magic Rack, rack your own, winner breaks
Day 1 -- Archer 25 - SVB 22
Day 2 -- Archer 16 - SVB 25
Day 3 -- Archer 25 - SVB 19
Total -- 66 - 66
Edit -- Ages: Archer 43, SVB 28
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Well, it proves he was capable of beating Shane, doesn't it?