Judd is bad for pool

KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I kind of doubt whether any top US pool player would be able to win their first 3 matches in any top tier snooker event.
 

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It would be nice to see that, alternate break makes a difference.
Judd is on Fargorate now, with a 725P.
Shaw is 825.
The Fargo matchup for R11 (can't do 20) is as expected, for 20 I would say Shaw 20, Judd 11. Best case.

Judd is good for pool, more TV viewers and you'll see more interest in Pool when British Open starts in May next year. He handled himself well, he is a classy professional after all.
His attitude was spot on, the last interview he said he needs to spend a year practicing and I think he has the pool bug :cool:
I look forward to seeing him play again.

Expect more cross overs, especially with British Open. It is after World Snooker championships.
Mark Selby is a former World 8 ball champion, on smaller ball tables but knows his way around pool patterns and tight tables. He could transition well. I see more of them playing Chinese 8 ball as well, good money in that.

That will be the difference though, more will take a serious go at 9 ball if the money increases vs. Some playing for fun when there is no Snooker on.
Matchroom will keep adding events, they seem to have a long term plan now and this is a good thing.

i believe selby won his 8-ball finals on an 8ft english pool table. the chinese 8-ball players may be a force to reckon with. gareth potts can play 9-ball very well and chu bingjie is one of the best position players in the world. i think those would fare better than snooker players tbh
 

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
I kind of doubt whether any top US pool player would be able to win their first 3 matches in any top tier snooker event.
No pool player would get that kind of draw in a major snooker event. But Francisco Sanchez Ruiz played the Gibraltar Open a few years ago, which is a world ranking event.

He won two qualifying matches and then beat Martin O’Donnell (currently ranked 42nd I think). He then lost 4-2 to Ken Doherty (former world champ).

 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
I think whats so funny, is that in a week from now most of the viewers wouldn't remember a Pro player in the US Open, but they'll remember Trump, the SNOOKER player! Still think he's a bad draw for bringing attention to pool?😉
 

chenjy9

Active member
I think whats so funny, is that in a week from now most of the viewers wouldn't remember a Pro player in the US Open, but they'll remember Trump, the SNOOKER player! Still think he's a bad draw for bringing attention to pool?😉

Any positive marketing is great marketing. Trump said he felt supported by the crowd and would do it again and spend more time to prepare. People as smart and talented as him are going to learn real quick and hopefully he brings some of his buddies along too. Pool, carom, snookers... all sides of the same game we all love so much; poking balls with sticks with accuracy and control on a table. If he comes back, it will no doubt be entertaining.
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No pool player would get that kind of draw in a major snooker event. But Francisco Sanchez Ruiz played the Gibraltar Open a few years ago, which is a world ranking event.

He won two qualifying matches and then beat Martin O’Donnell (currently ranked 42nd I think). He then lost 4-2 to Ken Doherty (former world champ).

David Alcaide played in that event too:

https://cuetracker.net/players/david-alcaide
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
Having read so many outstanding comments and observations in this thread, I'd like to chime in with some differences between snooker and pool that are so easily overlooked.

1) you nearly never have to jack up the cue in snooker, because it is only at the end of the rack that you are required to play for a specific ball. In nine ball, you must sometimes jack up the cue and it was apparent that Judd found these shots very challenging.
2) bridging off the rail is far rarer in snooker than in nine ball, and Judd seemed a bit uncomfortable when playing these shots
3) defensive shots in which maximum english is required are fairly rare in snooker but common in nine ball, and Judd didn't have an easy time with such shots
4) defensive theory is quite a bit different in snooker, in which leaving distance often has greater priority than snookering an opponent. In pool, snookering an opponent is more often the priority, and Judd's defensive shot selection reflected his snooker background. His defensive choices reminded me of those we always saw from the legendary Allison Fisher when she first joined the WPBA tour some twenty five years ago.

You can't just pull a switch and convert from one game to the other. The games have many similarities, and a great cueist may be able to make the transition to pool (as Mark Gray, a snooker player who eventually qualified on merit for a spot on Team Europe at the Mosconi. showed us) but there are many differences, too.
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Judd Trump showing up for the US Open amid a ton of hype was great for pool because it showed how difficult it is when one of the top snooker players From England was a big flop. It raised the profile of pool.

I played snooker exclusively as a kid and when I started playing pool there was an adjustment. I thought it would be a piece of cake but there are some differences. Shots down the rail are different and the points instead of rounded pockets were somewhat of a learning curve. If he dedicated himself to pool he would be a good player but I don't know why he would do that when there is more money in snooker.
 

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
David Alcaide played in that event too:

https://cuetracker.net/players/david-alcaide
Yes indeed. David and Francisco are both solid players and have done quite well in European amateur snooker. Alex gets touted quite often as being the best pool player to try his hand at snooker, but I think the evidence would show that David and Francisco might be a bit better given their respective records in international snooker competition.
 

gerryf

Well-known member
Judd Trump showing up for the US Open amid a ton of hype was great for pool because it showed how difficult it is when one of the top snooker players From England was a big flop. It raised the profile of pool.

I played snooker exclusively as a kid and when I started playing pool there was an adjustment. I thought it would be a piece of cake but there are some differences. Shots down the rail are different and the points instead of rounded pockets were somewhat of a learning curve. If he dedicated himself to pool he would be a good player but I don't know why he would do that when there is more money in snooker.
Maybe the only reason why Judd might devote himself to upgrading his rotation skills is that it would be historic to be the world champion in both snooker and 9-ball (or 8-ball) etc.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Maybe the only reason why Judd might devote himself to upgrading his rotation skills is that it would be historic to be the world champion in both snooker and 9-ball (or 8-ball) etc.
I don't believe that would be his mind set, being competitive yes, world champion, not a chance if still remaining competitive at snooker.
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... The only other poolplayer that might have been able to break through would have been Harold Worst. He grew up in Grand Rapids and dappled in all the billiard disciplines there. He was a Three Cushion world champion at 24 and a dominant pool player in his 30's. He entered one big snooker tournament (the Michigan State championship) that had many good players from Canada in it. Harold made it to the finals and actually may have won it. I'm sorry but my memory is cloudy here. ...
From The HyperTexts (credibility unknown):

"1963: At the Michigan State Fairgrounds, Worst wins the one-pocket title, beating Cornbread Red, the straight pool title, beating Babyface Whitlow, and the nine-ball title. Worst finishes second to Cornbread in snooker.​
1964: Worst wins the Michigan snooker and pool championships, according to a Traverse City Record-Eagle article dated June 16, 1966."​
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Yes indeed. David and Francisco are both solid players and have done quite well in European amateur snooker. Alex gets touted quite often as being the best pool player to try his hand at snooker, but I think the evidence would show that David and Francisco might be a bit better given their respective records in international snooker competition.
Jim Rempe
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
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jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
From The HyperTexts (credibility unknown):

"1963: At the Michigan State Fairgrounds, Worst wins the one-pocket title, beating Cornbread Red, the straight pool title, beating Babyface Whitlow, and the nine-ball title. Worst finishes second to Cornbread in snooker.​
1964: Worst wins the Michigan snooker and pool championships, according to a Traverse City Record-Eagle article dated June 16, 1966."​
This is great information. I watched the One Pocket match between Red and Harold. It was a doozy. The best One Pocket I had ever seen at that point in time. I don't remember who Harold beat in 9-Ball, but it had to be a good player (maybe Detroit Whitey) since the field was full of them. I think Harold won that one fairly easily, so I didn't bother to sweat it. I missed the 14.1 final because Fats was gambling at Three Cushions and that got my attention. More people were watching Fats play than the Straight Pool match. He ran nine and out to get the cash ($1,000). I did watch most of the snooker and it was also highly competitive between these two. They were the two best players there for sure. I didn't really know much about snooker but I do know they were firing those little balls in the hole from distance. Yes it was a 10' table.

There was a lot of action at that tournament and that was my preference even then. Red was in action all day and all night. He was captivating. This bad ass looking guy who was so bold and outspoken, and he could really back it up with his pool shooting. This was just before I went to JC for the first time in 1963. Red was there too and so were all the other hustlers that I had only heard about up till then.
 
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jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Yep his best season overall was probably 1988-89 but in 1987 he made it to the "3rd round"/final qualifying round (last 64) of the World Championship: https://cuetracker.net/players/jim-...ing,league,invitational,tour-qualifier,6-reds

He also won an English pool tournament, can't remember when (80s or 90s)
I'm pretty sure he won the English Pool title twice. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't English Pool the UK version of Eight Ball played with snooker size balls on a 7' snooker pocket table.
 

mikeyfrost

Socially Aware
Silver Member
As someone from the area where the US open was held let's be clear...pool definitely got a boost. Only thing I wish is this was November and everyone could head over to the mosconi cup with this buzz. I hope they find a way to bridge the new fans cause there are some out there for sure. Judd hype was awesome for the tourney. Also from what I saw at least, I think players overall played out of their minds during the us open. Like for sure a .900 tpa was not winning the final 32 round and on. I don't know the stats but I've never seen a tournament played at that level. Guys were making one or two mistakes and losing 11-4 and worse.
 

TurboDraw

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For me, having Trump participate in the U.S Open (pretty much as a guest) confirmed the fact that each discipline requires a different skillset and demands those skills to be highly developed to win at the top professional level. Of course Trump has the talent, but the skillset isn't developed for pool. Same would happen to Shaw/Shane etc, if they were to go play Trump in snooker. I am glad Shaw gave Trump a beatdown. Not for the sake of a beatdown, but to showcase the differences between pool and snooker. I too, tired of the snooker snobs on the Youtube streams. Once Trump was out, they were gone too.
 
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