Jumping up on shots, reconsidered.

Poolplaya9 said:
Players jumping up because they never got settled and confidence with their stance, balance, stroke, or aiming, etc for the shot and were already lacking confidence as a result and anticipating missing? Happens regularly.

Players jumping up on shots they were intimidated by and had no confidence in? Happens constantly.

Players jumping up on shots when feeling more pressure because of the situation like maybe it is a game winning shot or other do or die situation? Happens constantly.

Players missing because they didn't stay down? Happens all the time.

Players who suffer from some kind of pain or discomfort such as arthritis or back pain while in their shooting stance which causes them to jump up often as a subconscious reaction to wanting to get away from that stance pain asap? Happens a decent amount with those afflicted but the number of afflicted is relatively small.

Players who jump up on most shots as a matter of habit? Depending on how you want to define "most shots" there are a pretty decent amount of these players out there.

Players jumping up on the shot because they can already tell they missed the ball before it gets there? It happens, but not all that often in comparison to other causes. And you usually aren't going to be able to react that quickly either unless you were already anticipating the miss as well. Maybe you were already anticipating the miss due to the pressure, or your lack of confidence, which may or may not in turn have also caused you to never quite get settled with your stance or aiming etc, but in any case jumping because you knew you missed is generally accompanied by you already having been anticipating a possible miss. There is also some self fulfilling prophecy component to those cases where you were already anticipating a possible miss.
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So you've seen me play.
 
VTEC John said:
(Editing this on Tuesday.) Thanks for all the responses, but I must not have been totally clear, so I'll try to clarify. I understand that jumping up is not a good thing, that after contact it's a moot point, and that some great players move on the shot. No arguments there. I'm just curious about WHY we sometimes jump up. So here's the original post:

I have wondered about this proposition for a long time and am curious whether anyone agrees with it.

We don't miss because we jump up; we jump up because we know we've missed.

That is, during the stroke, or perhaps at the moment of impact, muscle memory or some other part of our sensory equipment informs us that we're not sending the cue ball where we intend--and we jump up in response to the bad news. Any thoughts on this?
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I'm just an average player, but I am absolutely convinced that for me, if I stay still, have a nice follow-through, and keep my head down during and after the stroke I am more likely to pocket the ball. Lifting the head is part of a poor stroke.
 
VTEC John said:
(Editing this on Tuesday.) Thanks for all the responses, but I must not have been totally clear, so I'll try to clarify. I understand that jumping up is not a good thing, that after contact it's a moot point, and that some great players move on the shot. No arguments there. I'm just curious about WHY we sometimes jump up. So here's the original post:

I have wondered about this proposition for a long time and am curious whether anyone agrees with it.

We don't miss because we jump up; we jump up because we know we've missed.

That is, during the stroke, or perhaps at the moment of impact, muscle memory or some other part of our sensory equipment informs us that we're not sending the cue ball where we intend--and we jump up in response to the bad news. Any thoughts on this?
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I see jumping up as the same as a smile after missing a simple shot. So many things to consider , Human reactions. I see after so many years of watching this game that if we square ourselves to the table and the shot comfortably and follow through, This jump up will not be so likely. Hope helps.
 
If you play with partner who has 1/2 brain, as to monitor your bad habits.

But remember some great player are not perfect text book players, and side stroke like Willie Hoppie as he start playing on milk
Box, as small boy.
 
VTEC John said:
(Editing this on Tuesday.) Thanks for all the responses, but I must not have been totally clear, so I'll try to clarify. I understand that jumping up is not a good thing, that after contact it's a moot point, and that some great players move on the shot. No arguments there. I'm just curious about WHY we sometimes jump up. So here's the original post:

I have wondered about this proposition for a long time and am curious whether anyone agrees with it.

We don't miss because we jump up; we jump up because we know we've missed.

That is, during the stroke, or perhaps at the moment of impact, muscle memory or some other part of our sensory equipment informs us that we're not sending the cue ball where we intend--and we jump up in response to the bad news. Any thoughts on this?
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It's a basic part of Mark Wilson's orthodox stroke to keep as still as possible including during post-shot routine. I miss if I jump up early, for whatever reason. However it's never because I already know I missed. Lack of confidence maybe, but that's something I should have dealt with in the mental game before the pre-shot routine.
 
VTEC John said:
(Editing this on Tuesday.) Thanks for all the responses, but I must not have been totally clear, so I'll try to clarify. I understand that jumping up is not a good thing, that after contact it's a moot point, and that some great players move on the shot. No arguments there. I'm just curious about WHY we sometimes jump up. So here's the original post:

I have wondered about this proposition for a long time and am curious whether anyone agrees with it.

We don't miss because we jump up; we jump up because we know we've missed.

That is, during the stroke, or perhaps at the moment of impact, muscle memory or some other part of our sensory equipment informs us that we're not sending the cue ball where we intend--and we jump up in response to the bad news. Any thoughts on this?
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Here's something that I've noticed about my game lately. If I stay down on the shot and watch the object ball roll into the pocket, I'll miss less often than I normally do. I think focusing on the object balls' path the entire time that it is rolling towards the pocket is the most important thing one can do during a shot. Even more so than jumping up. If I take my eye off of the object ball, I'm far more likely to miss. I've missed shots that were so easy that I thought they couldn't be missed because I was watching the cue ball go where I wanted it to go.
 
geoff_182 said:
btw, you can still become a pretty good player by jumping up on every shot, look at Ismael Paez:


Though I do think it will limit your accuracy and potential. You wouldn't see a top player today shooting this way.
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the bulk of his career was on looser pockets and against a smaller field of elite players.

i would say the biggest problem with that type of playing style is the inability to troubleshoot what went wrong. did you miss because you didn't stay down? flicked the wrist? aimed wrong? hard to know unless you stay down consistently.
 
jay helfert said:
You got it backwards. Keep your head down and your body still, and you will miss fewer shots! End of conversation.
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Jumping up or raising up can occur micro seconds AFTER hitting the cb and it will not affect the shot one bit. But the problem is there's no sure way to know (short of slow motion recording) whether or not the jumping player moved 0.003 seconds after hitting the cb or 0.003 seconds before, or even as the cue tip is hitting the ob.

Jumping up is likely not consistent, meaning sometimes you might actually jump up too early and affect the shot. Consistency is in staying down and staying still.
 
VTEC John said:
(Editing this on Tuesday.) Thanks for all the responses, but I must not have been totally clear, so I'll try to clarify. I understand that jumping up is not a good thing, that after contact it's a moot point, and that some great players move on the shot. No arguments there. I'm just curious about WHY we sometimes jump up. So here's the original post:

I have wondered about this proposition for a long time and am curious whether anyone agrees with it.

We don't miss because we jump up; we jump up because we know we've missed.

That is, during the stroke, or perhaps at the moment of impact, muscle memory or some other part of our sensory equipment informs us that we're not sending the cue ball where we intend--and we jump up in response to the bad news. Any thoughts on this?
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Going up because of grip and elbow drop raising the front end of the cue and aiding in lifting you More often than not. Micro motions get big effects
 
I always thought anxiety of the hit, due to not having the fundamentals/aim down, LEADS to jumping up. If your timing is good enough, you jump AFTER the hit, but the flaws are still there, even if you luck out and make the shot. And those flaws are gonna manifest at some point, and it is gonna cost you against the killers that KNOW they are gonna make the shot, and treat the shot as if it were already made.
 
VTEC John said:
(Editing this on Tuesday.) Thanks for all the responses, but I must not have been totally clear, so I'll try to clarify. I understand that jumping up is not a good thing, that after contact it's a moot point, and that some great players move on the shot. No arguments there. I'm just curious about WHY we sometimes jump up. So here's the original post:

I have wondered about this proposition for a long time and am curious whether anyone agrees with it.

We don't miss because we jump up; we jump up because we know we've missed.

That is, during the stroke, or perhaps at the moment of impact, muscle memory or some other part of our sensory equipment informs us that we're not sending the cue ball where we intend--and we jump up in response to the bad news. Any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...
I'm thinking it happens both ways, depending on the person, the shot, the circumstances. In my experience, if staying down is not one of my conscious thoughts when I'm playing, I tend to get up too fast no matter what else is going on in my head. It does make sense that jumping up should not affect the shot if it happens after the hit, but I contend that the act of jumping up probably starts before the hit whether we realize it or not.
 
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For me, it happens when i feel excited to play and just want get going. I have to force myself to slow down and Take my time. Or it happens when i am nervous on a shot and jump up.
 
So much of what we do as pool players is ingrained. The mind is what teaches the body what needs to happen on the table. When we, as pool players, begin to learn what pool will teach, we must have a firm grasp of the fundamentals. Without that, we teach our bodies bad habits.
At the beginning of the set, a cradled cue is very important. Not tight, as that will happen naturally.
 
Simple Cue, you jump up Zapp.

Would only take Zap or two.😁
 

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When my Dad was teaching me to break, he would literally hold me down. Saying, "Keep your body still". Think it has hindered my break speed, but I can be precise with where I hit the rack and english on the cue ball.
 
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