Agreed, I concur. Ditto. I 2nd. that. Good on you. Sportsmanship & Honor.
just cheating???
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Agreed, I concur. Ditto. I 2nd. that. Good on you. Sportsmanship & Honor.
So, what if you don't really know yourself?
What I'm trying to say is...
If Ryan (or whoever) wasn't sure about whether or not he fouled on the shot, why should he call it on himself? Why should anybody?
Then you can go over to your opponent and say something like, "Umm..., I'm not sure but I might not have gotten a rail on that shot." He'll probably be so confused he won't make another ball. Sharking by total honesty. :grin:
It sure looks like the cue ball hit the 10 but I can't say for sure. The stick might have contacted the 10ball. The framerate of that video is not high enough and the camera angle is not close enough to be able to determine what hit what.
Like I said in my earlier post. It doesnt matter if he fouled or not. Since he didnt call for a ref to watch the shot, and ryan didnt call a foul on himself then Oscar probably thought it wasnt worth callin it....or creating a scene...... you snooze you lose. Ive been in the same situation before. I had no one to blame but myself........ Next time you bet I asked for a ref to watch the hit
The 10 ball went to the right, from the shooters perspective.
So if it grazed the top of the 10 ball, it was the left topside
of the 10 ball. Which certainly would have sent the cue ball
to the left (again from the shooters perspective) so he would
not have hit the ball he was aiming at correctly, if the cue ball
had hit the 10 ball. Bottom line if the 10 ball moved right the
cue ball would have moved left.
This is impossible to figure out from the video. The 10 moved very little in relation to the speed of the shot. That means that if the cue ball hit the 10, it would have been deflected very little to the side on the shot. I've shot similar shots where a tiny mid-course correction made the ball for me.
I think it is not possible to tell from the video what caused the 10 to move.
I think you're seeing what you want to see.
I used the word "grazed" because of the slight movement of the ten ball.
It certainly didn't influence the path of the cue ball enough in terms of left or right.
It wasn't like there was a collision.
I never seen anything, dont need to, what we have here is one guy is very honorable and the other is very creepy, you decide whos who!
I watched it many times myself and I have to agree with seven_7days. While it would seem like it would cause him to miss the shot if he hit the 10 with the cue ball, it looks like it didn't. That is, the cue ball did graze the 10 and he did still make the 1 ball because the deflection was so slight and he caught the rail first before making the 1.
The video quality isn't great but it looks like Oscar's literally got his eyes closed when they show him right before the shot. He may be trying to clear his head and get in the zone or something and decided to close his eyes for a while. He may not have seen the shot at all. We can't see him as the shot's actually being hit. Even if he did see it, I agree with other posters that there is no point in arguing if it's Oscar's word against Ryan's and Ryan already decided it was a good hit.
This is also part of the reason I think all tournament play should be foul on all balls. So if the 10 moved by the cue ball or the cue stick it would be a foul either way, but the announcers made it clear that by the rules they were playing it was no foul if he accidentally hit the 10 with his stick. Bad rule.
Finally, to defend Ryan a little bit, even though I an almost positive he did foul, I had to watch it many times to come to that conclusion. I can accept that Ryan himself may not have been sure what happened and may honestly have believed that he hit it with the stick vs the cue ball. We tend to think that the shooter always knows whether he fouled or not, but his attention would have been focused way downtable on the 1 ball. He wouldn't have been able to tell and could reasonably conclude the same thing that Spindoctor9 said, "If the cue ball touched the 10 I wouldn't have made the shot." A reasonable, but incorrect, assumption. I can even see myself making that same call and totally believing I was right, and I do call fouls on myself and call all close calls as honestly as I possibly can.
So that's my take.
May be wrong on all accounts here but 1. Isn't two balls in motion at same time a foul no matter what? 2. Cue ball is not always deflected by subtle contact especially at high velocity (accounting for minimal movement of the 10 ball) 3. Oscar wasn't watching as someone mentioned he seemed to be looking elsewhere just prior to the shot and still could have been or could have been watching the hit on the one and six 4. Nunjo bidness cuz it was their match 5. Aren't you supposed to give opponent option to move incidental contact balls back before continuing to shoot? And if so is it a foul to not offer the opponent to move balls back? 6. Can't say mcreesh looked guilty or had suspect body language...he may have been watching the down table hit as well...making it possible not to realize movement right in front of himself 7. Definitely a foul 10 ball was struck by cue ball without a doubt....I believe striking ball with cue on shooting stroke is a foul and not covered by no cue ball fouls.....we play two balls in motion simultaneously is a foul to remove chances of argument.....dunno but Ryan was playing well and Oscar is a class act always....certainly not concrete proof of a cheat....
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At any rate it is a foul to hit with the stick any ball you are jumping over or masse'ng around as u could possibly use the stick to get the ball out of the way of the CB. It is or was in the rules. I have seen it misinterpreted to include balls you are cuing over but from my read of the rule that was a bad interpretation.
Is "cue ball fouls only" a normal rule in the USA. I can understand it being used in bars, to avoid arguements, but not in tournaments. Seems a very strange rule to me, or am i missing something.
Ding ding ding. Winner. 100% agreed.
It comes from the feeling among many US players that they cannot trust their opponent to be fair on such calls, even in tournaments.
makes sense, when playing with no ref, cue ball fouls easier to call, but as you know, in the UK, we take our butler along to ref:grin:
That is exactly what happened. And I thought that if you are jumping a ball and your cue contacts the ball being jumped, it is a foul. But, it is plain as day that it was the cueball that hit it. I will say it. Cheater. I will remember his name and face if I or anyone I know plays him.
If you need to have a ref to call a foul, there should be a ref assigned to every table to watch every shot. Kinda ridiculous isn't it. Refs should only be needed if it is gonna be a close call. In this case, easy to call. If the 10 moves for any reason it is a foul. Oscar didn't challenge the call as there was no ref. Veteran player that knows he is gonna lose that fight so why start it. Bottom line, McReesh decided that he would cheat since Oscar didn't call a ref over to watch a very easily called shy. If you get 1000 people to watch it, 99% are gonna say cheater and the 1% that doesn't say cheater are the other cheaters that would do the same thing as this guy.