Just for US players

[sde]

Adding my 2 cents

I agree with those who have said that a major sponsor is needed. The question I have is would there be enough viewers, of pool tourneys, to draw a major sponsor to support pool? To answer my own question, the way it is now the answer is no.

The way I see it, pool on TV today is watched by only a small % of pool players with little or no viewer ship by the general public. Somehow, interest (of the general public) must be generated in the players at a local, regional and national level to attract a major sponsor. Sponsors must be made to believe that pool on TV will be watched not only by a few pool players but also by the general public.

What will attract the general public here in the USA? International stars or players from their home town vying for a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP? I hope you see where I’m going with this.

I guess my point of this is that it is the opinions of general public that really matter and not so much the opinions of us in the pool community that will bring on the major sponsors.

Once again, this is just my 2 cents.

Steve

Ps I do not want to see an end to international players competing here in the USA only the addition of a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP.

 

[ShootingArts]

the proof is in the pudding

Anyone who has waded through all of this should know the truth but you seem to think your distortions work so I have taken time to clear up many of them. Hard for you to argue with your own words cut and pasted but I'm sure you will manage!

Hu

Just to clarify, I posted two posts which I considered relevant. A real world example, for some reason YOU didn't like it and started flaming..."Common sense is very uncommon as you commonly prove!"

A blatant lie. My reply to your "relevant" post #66 was quite polite, post #67.
I have never called you any names as you claim. When you replied with a post insinuating that I lacked common sense I replied with a bit of silliness that was a bit of a dig at all of the space you waste throughout these forums with an avatar and cartoon in your signature which are just designed to hurt someone who is already gone. How silly is that? Three grins behind that tongue twister if you tried to read it aloud should have been some clue.

In the interest of the thread I tried to agree to disagree with you but you continued to flame me long after I'd left the thread. Then you brought over quotes from the previous thread yet you accuse ME of following YOU here!
!

WOW! That is outrageous of me!!!!! You should have used many more exclamation points. I was the second poster in this thread and have been in it since then. Your first post was down past the fiftieth post. The first slap thrown was by you, and you continue to use half truths or blatant lies in every post concerning me. How dare I accuse you of following me here? (for your edification "rolleyes" indicates sarcasm, "grin" indicates I find your BS funny. Hope this helps you keep up)

What is a real shame is originally there was many more posters that could have added real quality to this discussion but like I they just bailed when they see people like you calling people idiots, manure etc. I don't consider that intelligent debating, actually to me that's boring. My problem is I tend to spot these situations much slower that my peers and tend to hang around longer than I should! !"

Please quote where I called you or anyone else an idiot or called you or anyone else manure. The simple fact is I never have. You brought up the subject of how little respect you had for me in a post, I replied that I respected you less than something I found on a farm boot that I specified wasn't manure! Easy to catch you in lie after lie along with gross distortions.

The one thing we do agree on though is that I am also happy to let others judge also. IMO what I said is a million miles from these type of comments:

"Personally, I'd like to see the European robots leave the American pool scene. They're boring, have absolutely no personality, and don't do a damn thing to promote pool here in the States. They're pretty good at pocking the good old American greenbacks, though, but they're bad business when it comes to elevating the sport. All of them look exactly like Buckingham Guards when they're hitting 'em, and off table, they have the same sour disposition. It's disgusting."

"none of the "invited" American players wanted to go overseas to ride camels."

"foreign aliens"

For the record I wans't the first to describe these type of comments as racist or zenophobic and I'm sure I won't be the last. I note YOU are the only person to desribe my comment as racist.

Now I notice Randy has posted some excellent points, can we get back to the topic at hand and leave the race issue to one side now?

Regards

More of your BS. None of those quotes are mine either as you well know but putting them here without properly attributing them to anyone certainly implies that. You are the only one that badgered someone with relentless attacks as you attempt to do here while always trying to have your lies and distortions as the last word. You are the one that keeps racism front and center with your signature on every post of yours in these forums.

Our posts to each other in this thread for anyone who has way to much time on their hands or are actually curious which of us is full of baloney: 66, 67, 69,70, 73,78,79,82, 83,86, 87,89, 90, 91, 114, 117,118,120, and this one.

Of course I have many more posts dealing solely with the topic at hand. By your count, you rate two of your posts as relevant to the thread. The volume of posts dedicated to quality should be a clear indication to anyone what each of us is focused on in this thread. I shovel through your manure purely as a sideline.(Since I have to spell things out for you, I just referred to some or all of what you have been writing as manure. I in no way am calling you manure.) As for saying that your posts often indicate a lack of common sense that is a case of if the shoe fits . . . .

Hu

(Folks after this brief intermission and a trip to the airport and a pool hall I'll be back to take up the subject at hand)

 

[Roy Steffensen]

Don't you two know how to write emails, or use a phone?

 

[JAM]

None of those quotes are mine either as you well know but putting them here without properly attributing them to anyone certainly implies that. You are the only one that badgered someone with relentless attacks as you attempt to do here while always trying to have your lies and distortions as the last word. You are the one that keeps racism front and center with your signature on every post of yours in these forums.

They were my quotes, which is why he posted them, Shooting Arts. I appreciate your attempts to post the truth, but it doesn't do any good to lie in the mud with a pig, as they say.

In the words of Al Pacino in The Godfather, “Just when I think I’m out, they pull me back in.” Well, I ain’t going down being labeled a “racist” by a Brit who seems to have made it his mission to have me represented as something that I am not.

I am a long-time member of this forum, and as such, my sole desire had always been to promote pool by my contributions right here on this forum. Thank you to those who e-mailed me privately. I appreciate your kind words.

To the Brit, et al., again, there are too many examples to list, but why not chew on these words below instead of continuing to make me something that I am not:
July 29, 2006, “Three Filipinos, Two Germans, and a Russian”: Man, the tension is building to a fever pitch with six players left standing. It's hard for me to pick a favorite. The Germans are so disciplined, always brandishing their game faces, showing no emotion whether they win or lose. The Filipinos are always more relaxed when they are at the table, and there's no question that they are strong contenders. I love seeing Stalev in the semi-finals. He's probably one of the most under-estimated pool players in the world, a Russian billiards champion, and he's got a break that is very strong.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=37458

February 5, 2005, “Breaking the Balls: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly”: To date, I'm very impressed with Niels Feijen's style of breaking, and he represents "the good." http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=10094

September 28, 2005, “JAM’s Pics”: Thanks, Buckster! Ivica was a funny fellow, always brandishing a smile on his face. I really enjoyed the international flavor to this year's U.S. Open, and it was great seeing the players compete. http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=18696

July 6, 2006, “Hottest Male Pro Poolplayers....EVER?”: Remember that saying about Elvis entering the building? Well, in pool, it definitely applies to Efren Reyes. He is so very polite and has the patience of a saint, signing autographs, having his picture taken, never grimacing. Yep, when Efren arrives at the venue site, you might as well say "Efren has just entered the building" because he's the crowd favorite and all eyes dart in his direction. http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=35627

November 20, 2004, “Glass City Open Update”” Steve Folan is standing here with me now as I write this on the hotel computer in the lobby. He said he won a qualifer in Stoke-on-Trent which is located in the Midlands. He got a free entry fee and all-expense paid trip from England to Toledo, Ohio, to compete in this great event. Steve has been playing snooker for about 12 years, and he just took up 9-ball about 5 months ago. He's a very nice young lad, all of 20 years old, full of enthusiasm, and he's having a really, really good time. This is the first time he has ever been outside of the U.K. http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=8289

August 21 2006, “Rocking and Rolling at the Turning Stone”:
There were many triumphs and upsets this past week, but one of the triumphs that caught my attention was this young player from Israel, Zion Zvi, who spanked Dennis Hatch on the winners' side of the bracket. He's only been playing 9-ball for 8 months. His strong game is snooker. Zion is one player to watch in the coming months as he vigorously follows the American tournament trail. It is his intention to try to qualify for an IPT event in the year 2007 towards the end of this year. Here's a picture of Santione (sp), Zion, and Keith!

And this, too: Tony Crosby, formerly of England, now an American, also made the trek to Turning Stone. Britain's loss is the United States' gain because this kid can play. A family man and father of two, Tony showed me pictures of his two children who have those Crosby eyes and are cute as can be. One night, he was talking to his young daughter, and he handed me his cell phone. She said "Hi, Jennie," pronouncing each syllable so precisely. Tony is proud as punch of his little tikes, and rightfully so. I often wonder how difficult it must be to travel so often on the tournament trail, thinking about the loves of your life. http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=38912&page=6&highlight=Britain's+loss

August 6, 2007, "JAM's Picture Page from Vegas":I absolutely love this guy, Brian Saleh of England. He arrived in America well in advance of the IPT tournament in Vegas...We arrived in Vegas a couple of days ahead of time, and the very first IPT member I set my eyes on was Brian who recognized me from AzBilliards. Keith, Brian, a friend of Brian's, and myself partied until 4:00 a.m. in our exquisite suite at The Venetian. It turned out that Brian was in Keith's very first round, but it didn't make a bit of difference when it came to forming friendships...IPT member Brian Saleh is a charming fellow, a gentleman player, and I can't wait to see him again.http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=38034

I attempted to search for the MANY good threads I have written about our foreign brethren of pool players, but there were too many when I used the Search function. In fact, I tried to search for some trip updates and picture page threads, but, again, there were too many. However, if I had to pick a favorite trip report, it would be this one: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=38034

It saddens me to go down labeled a racist because I am not. I know that it is not good etiquette in Forum Land to say "this is my last post," which is why I usually will postscript mine with stating I am taking a hiatus. I have tried very hard to promote pool on AzBilliards by posting updates and sharing my pictures. I would like to think that is how I will be remembered as opposed to being a racist.

These below-referenced links were created in an effort to promote pool and to inform and share with the readers of this forum. I can't even find all of my picture page links, but these are the majority of them. When you read the ugly words written about me -- past, present, and in the future -- I hope that you will remember me for who I really am, just a lowly America pool enthusiast who tried to be a good contributing poster to the readers of this forum.

http://www.hometown.aol.com/etranscript/2005USOpen.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/khmccready/2004usopen.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/carolinasopen2003.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/prevglasscityopen.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/IPTVenetian.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/2004valleyforgepage2.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/2006turningstone.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/JossTourStopNo21-AlbanyNY.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/josssnookers.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/2006turningstonepage2.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/2004valleyforge.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/jossfinale.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/money.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/khmccready/myhomepage/index.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/khmccready/index.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/khmccready/carolinasopen2004.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/khmccready/myhomepage/photo.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/khmccready/carolinasopen2004page2.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/khmccready/2004usopenpage3.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/railbirdjam/2005SBE.html.

Happy trails to you all, until we meet again!

JAM

 

[ShootingArts]

pretty much spot on

Steve,

What you are saying is pretty much spot on. One thing not to be overlooked was in comments made by Bandito. Sometimes it is possible to sell a product(pool in our case) without having everything perfect yet. We need the interest of the public to attract sponsors and we need sponsors to create a product that the general public will like. We either have to find a way to get our toe in the door and make small steps as Bandito also suggested might be the case, or we need to persuade a network with decent distribution to take a chance on pool without pool having to fully pay for the air time. A sponsor with deep pockets would work too but we seem to be in full agreement that this is a long shot, not impossible but a tough sell.

None of this is easy which is why pool is muddling along. Pool is actually growing and progressing, just at a very slow rate. Hopefully we can do better.

Hu

I agree with those who have said that a major sponsor is needed. The question I have is would there be enough viewers, of pool tourneys, to draw a major sponsor to support pool? To answer my own question, the way it is now the answer is no.

The way I see it, pool on TV today is watched by only a small % of pool players with little or no viewer ship by the general public. Somehow, interest (of the general public) must be generated in the players at a local, regional and national level to attract a major sponsor. Sponsors must be made to believe that pool on TV will be watched not only by a few pool players but also by the general public.

What will attract the general public here in the USA? International stars or players from their home town vying for a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP? I hope you see where I’m going with this.

I guess my point of this is that it is the opinions of general public that really matter and not so much the opinions of us in the pool community that will bring on the major sponsors.

Once again, this is just my 2 cents.

Steve

Ps I do not want to see an end to international players competing here in the USA only the addition of a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP.

 

[ShootingArts]

don't go down period!

A super reply to a lot of garbage. One warning, never accept quotes that our twisty "friend" posts as yours without reading them word for word. Quotes are as easily edited as anything else. Don't worry about me wallowing in the mud with pigs, I was born on a farm and handling livestock including pigs before I was knee high. I don't get angry or upset dealing with a little mud.

I am five minutes late leaving now so I will just say it is great to see you here. I would really miss your great trip reports if you let one or two people run you off.

Hu

They were my quotes, which is why he posted them, Shooting Arts. I appreciate your attempts to post the truth, but it doesn't do any good to lie in the mud with a pig, as they say.

In the words of Al Pacino in The Godfather, “Just when I think I’m out, they pull me back in.” Well, I ain’t going down being labeled a “racist” by a Brit who seems to have made it his mission to have me represented as something that I am not.

I am a long-time member of this forum, and as such, my sole desire had always been to promote pool by my contributions right here on this forum. Thank you to those who e-mailed me privately. I appreciate your kind words.

To the Brit, et al., again, there are too many examples to list, but why not chew on these words below instead of continuing to make me something that I am not:
July 29, 2006, “Three Filipinos, Two Germans, and a Russian”: Man, the tension is building to a fever pitch with six players left standing. It's hard for me to pick a favorite. The Germans are so disciplined, always brandishing their game faces, showing no emotion whether they win or lose. The Filipinos are always more relaxed when they are at the table, and there's no question that they are strong contenders. I love seeing Stalev in the semi-finals. He's probably one of the most under-estimated pool players in the world, a Russian billiards champion, and he's got a break that is very strong.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=37458

February 5, 2005, “Breaking the Balls: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly”: To date, I'm very impressed with Niels Feijen's style of breaking, and he represents "the good." http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=10094

September 28, 2005, “JAM’s Pics”: Thanks, Buckster! Ivica was a funny fellow, always brandishing a smile on his face. I really enjoyed the international flavor to this year's U.S. Open, and it was great seeing the players compete. http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=18696

July 6, 2006, “Hottest Male Pro Poolplayers....EVER?”: Remember that saying about Elvis entering the building? Well, in pool, it definitely applies to Efren Reyes. He is so very polite and has the patience of a saint, signing autographs, having his picture taken, never grimacing. Yep, when Efren arrives at the venue site, you might as well say "Efren has just entered the building" because he's the crowd favorite and all eyes dart in his direction. http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=35627

November 20, 2004, “Glass City Open Update”” Steve Folan is standing here with me now as I write this on the hotel computer in the lobby. He said he won a qualifer in Stoke-on-Trent which is located in the Midlands. He got a free entry fee and all-expense paid trip from England to Toledo, Ohio, to compete in this great event. Steve has been playing snooker for about 12 years, and he just took up 9-ball about 5 months ago. He's a very nice young lad, all of 20 years old, full of enthusiasm, and he's having a really, really good time. This is the first time he has ever been outside of the U.K. http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=8289

August 21 2006, “Rocking and Rolling at the Turning Stone”:
There were many triumphs and upsets this past week, but one of the triumphs that caught my attention was this young player from Israel, Zion Zvi, who spanked Dennis Hatch on the winners' side of the bracket. He's only been playing 9-ball for 8 months. His strong game is snooker. Zion is one player to watch in the coming months as he vigorously follows the American tournament trail. It is his intention to try to qualify for an IPT event in the year 2007 towards the end of this year. Here's a picture of Santione (sp), Zion, and Keith! http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=38912&page=6&highlight=Britain's+loss

I attempted to search for the MANY good threads I have written about our foreign brethren of pool players, but there were too many when I used the Search function. In fact, I tried to search for some trip updates and picture page threads, but, again, there were too many. However, if I had to pick a favorite trip report, it would be this one: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=38034

It saddens me to go down labeled a racist because I am not. I know that it is not good etiquette in Forum Land to say "this is my last post," which is why I usually will postscript mine with stating I am taking a hiatus. I have tried very hard to promote pool on AzBilliards by posting updates and sharing my pictures. I would like to think that is how I will be remembered as opposed to being a racist.

These below-referenced links were created in an effort to promote pool and to inform and share with the readers of this forum. I can't even find all of my picture page links, but these are the majority of them. When you read the ugly words written about me -- past, present, and in the future -- I hope that you will remember me for who I really am, just a lowly America pool enthusiast who tried to be a good contributing poster to the readers of this forum.

http://www.hometown.aol.com/etranscript/2005USOpen.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/carolinasopen2003.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/prevglasscityopen.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/IPTVenetian.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/2004valleyforgepage2.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/2006turningstone.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/JossTourStopNo21-AlbanyNY.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/josssnookers.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/2006turningstonepage2.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/2004valleyforge.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/jossfinale.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/money.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/khmccready/myhomepage/index.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/khmccready/index.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/khmccready/carolinasopen2004.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/khmccready/myhomepage/photo.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/khmccready/carolinasopen2004page2.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/khmccready/2004usopenpage3.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/railbirdjam/2005SBE.html.

Happy trails to you all, until we meet again!

JAM

 

[CreeDo]

Hu =_=

I wish you guys would make up or at least lighten up. I find TheOne's posts to be honest efforts to weigh in, not lies and trolling etc. I think most of your dislike for him is due to the argument with JAM, but I also had the same argument... if you can live with me, couldn't you live with him?

His first post in this thread had no personal attacks (unless you count him ribbing he does by using jam's "foreign aliens" phrase), just opinions on why he thinks it would or wouldn't be a good idea. His second post had another well-spoken opinion based on the snooker world and again zero personal attacks. I gotta agree that the first thing that seemed 'aggressive' was your 'common sense' post, but maybe he overreacted because you loaded it up with smilies at least. Don't think I'm siding against or with anyone, I think you both have useful stuff to contribute and I wish you could play nice. Weirdly, I think you both even agree: you both can see the merits of having a couple of closed tournaments but neither of you is in favor of making all the US tournaments closed.

Jam: I can buy the idea that you're not racist, can you buy that maybe the way you said things must come across wrong, since they caused a bit of an uproar? I dunno, too farfetched?

On the subject at hand: if we get schools into it, we will automatically have some kind of all-american tournament anyway, a college tournament. Nothing like what you're thinking of, with all the top americans competing, but it's a start. Actually, I dunno if it'd be all that 'american' since you can get a student visa that lasts as long as it takes to complete your schooling here. But the school route is really appealing to me because there can be outside money other than parental money... iirc, the college basketball stuff, march madness, gets sponsorship from GM. Big companies must love to be able to say they are supporting a school program rather than a pool tournament. It would help american pool even if it's not 100% top americans competing.

Even cycling 'pool money' around without outside cash can lead to great things in this direction... look at what tiger woods has spent a nice chunk of his money on, the tiger woods foundation... basically supporting school and junior golf programs. I guess the pool world is a little too broke to do such a thing but it's a nice thought... it seems like all it would take to get the ball rolling at a college would be openminded athletic directors, a teacher (anyone willing to do it for free?) and maybe 10 grand worth of equipment.

 

[TheOne]

Hu =_=

I wish you guys would make up or at least lighten up. I find TheOne's posts to be honest efforts to weigh in, not lies and trolling etc. I think most of your dislike for him is due to the argument with JAM, but I also had the same argument... if you can live with me, couldn't you live with him?

Thanks Creedo, pretty much spot on and exactly why I was happy to leave the posts there for everyone to see.

Like I said back on topic, hey we even had Randy brave the waters for a second there such a shame, hope the last two flaming threads haven't scared everyone off again. Anyway thats a free hit I didn't reply to any insults (although I have to confess I skipped JAMs so sorry if she didn't attack me I'm just presuming?).

Anyway it's good to see current promoters and heavy weights in American pool see the value of having foreigners play in America, there is hope yet!

Now all we have to do is fix the real problem and sort the Pro level organisation out! Shouldn't it be the BCA we are all asking for answers/solutions?

Why the hell isn't their a US Championships, has there ever been one?

 

[nmpoolplr]

Ok, this is just madness at this point. I read every reply on this thread and I'm just sick. At first, it started off with great discussion. I'm actually thinking about giving my input, but ShootingArts, the way you are treating TheOne is OUTRAGEOUS and DISGRACEFUL!!! Let me tell you, that "Big wet sausage" did nothing to provoke you and your comments are part of the reason why we, the pool community, CANNOT MOVE FORWARD!!

You guys talk about, what else?? MONEY,MONEY,MONEY. As a pool player, it would be nice to live a cushy exsistence, but we aren't there yet. Why? Well, we keep bickering amongst ourselves. If nothing changes, then nothing will change. Yes, something should change...but for the BETTER. Excluding foreign players from all US tourns. is not the answer. Yes, maybe we should do ONE American tourn. but not exclude our foreign friends.

Let's get it together people. Why doesn't the gov. or big companies want to invest so much $$ in pool? Take a good look around. Hell, even 50 years ago, women weren't allowed in many pool halls. Now look. It's happening, but slowly. Let's not f**k it up now. I want to see every pool player making the big bucks too. (especially me, ha ha) Let's be proactive, not reactive.

Give the foreigners a break...would a kleenex help??

 

[vagabond]

hope the last two flaming threads haven't scared everyone off again.

I was NOT scared.I was waiting for the right moment to jump in.you are not alone here my friend.Some of us are watching the developments on this thread.

 

[vagabond]

Ok, this is just madness at this point. I read every reply on this thread and I'm just sick.
Give the foreigners a break...would a kleenex help??

Bravo, nmpoolplr

 

[ShootingArts]

You are absolutely right about the way I treat him . . .

At first, it started off with great discussion. I'm actually thinking about giving my input, but ShootingArts, the way you are treating TheOne is OUTRAGEOUS and DISGRACEFUL!!!

Well if you didn't supply any input before the first sixty-nine posts or so you don't seem too eager to get involved, more like the people that were just fixing to buy a new aircraft carrier but since they got annoyed at the shipyard they aren't buying one to go in their backyard fish pond now! Note I posted the first reply in the thread there were another sixty-five reasonable posts between myself and others before there were any problems despite strong disagreements between us as to the proper course of action.

You are absolutely right that the way I am treating the one is outrageous and disgraceful. A careful reading will show that I replied to his posts that were outrageous and disgraceful every step of the way, not the other way around. Of course this is following his many outrageous and disgraceful remarks on another thread and his genuinely racist cartoon that depicted lily white british buckingham guards being replaced with multi-race US soldiers.

Those of you who don't have a clue really should refrain from taking sides.

Hu

 

[ShootingArts]

Bandido, some information

Edwin,

I just researched the access to the TFC. I can get either a seven or eight channel package at respective costs of $26 and $35 dollars a month added to a base price of at least $29.95 a month. This is through DirecTV, my satellite dish service provider.

This leads me to believe that buying air time on TFC would only reach a very small niche market in the US. We can check with DirecTV and other major subscribers but I suspect the subscriptions to those packages are a very small portion of their customer base and unless someone is interested in much more than pool on those channels I don't think many will pay an extra $300 a year for access.

One apparent dead end but still avenues to explore. I do like your idea of putting together a package and chasing sponsors large and small for the events or series of events. US rodeo has done that for many years and has recently boomed as a major sport. Putting together a basic program for each event(a brochure) that can be updated at the last minute and printed might help with sponsorship when we don't have much to offer. I spent about thirty thousand dollars a year advertising my small auto salvage business including in rodeo programs, circus programs, and race track programs. It was somewhat effective since it was direct local advertising and the funds were tax deductible. Banners for larger sponsors would work too. Not just the banners at the venue, but some placed around the city to make it known the event was taking place including the time and place of the event and a major sponsor's name and logo.

I have some ideas for a small scale test run while we see if anyone is actually interested in putting together some events or not. I think your idea of a series of qualifiers and crowning regional champions then having the top handful from each of these regions compete for a national title is a great idea. I'm pretty sure that is what you have in mind anyway.

The little small by-monthly tournament at the local pool hall draws players from several states away. This indicates people would come to a regional event and the top players should have some financial support to go to the nationals.

Off the subject a bit but since a large focus of this idea is to create and nurture young players, some young guns came in from several states away and swept first and second at the tourney. Fantastic performances. We have talent right here in the US, we just need a place for it to grow.

Hu

 

[vagabond]

Those of you who don't have a clue really should refrain from taking sides.

Hu

What makes you think that NMpool player does not have a clue?

 

[justnum]

Ok, this is just madness at this point. I read every reply on this thread and I'm just sick. At first, it started off with great discussion. I'm actually thinking about giving my input, but ShootingArts, the way you are treating TheOne is OUTRAGEOUS and DISGRACEFUL!!! Let me tell you, that "Big wet sausage" did nothing to provoke you and your comments are part of the reason why we, the pool community, CANNOT MOVE FORWARD!!

You guys talk about, what else?? MONEY,MONEY,MONEY. As a pool player, it would be nice to live a cushy exsistence, but we aren't there yet. Why? Well, we keep bickering amongst ourselves. If nothing changes, then nothing will change. Yes, something should change...but for the BETTER. Excluding foreign players from all US tourns. is not the answer. Yes, maybe we should do ONE American tourn. but not exclude our foreign friends.

Let's get it together people. Why doesn't the gov. or big companies want to invest so much $$ in pool? Take a good look around. Hell, even 50 years ago, women weren't allowed in many pool halls. Now look. It's happening, but slowly. Let's not f**k it up now. I want to see every pool player making the big bucks too. (especially me, ha ha) Let's be proactive, not reactive.

Give the foreigners a break...would a kleenex help??

well said too bad its not easy to read more or less understand.

Heres how I figure it you get more people into a pool hall as a starting point. My first time in a pool hall was nice but then again the guys I met were outgoing and extremely sociable. We even had nice discussions relating to billiards and that was all.

But being so young I am not good at pool so it wasnt easy watching some guy shoot all day especially when I am suppose to be competing against him. I got over than and just focused on learning what he was doing that I was not, not an easy thought to come across.

Not too mention the delightful chatter at a pool hall its even better at a bar.

 

[justnum]

I tried the school idea at my school,

Inviting people to shoot around but most of the time they catch an attitude if you win too much or can't shoot straight at all. This is in addition to the crowds just standing around to comment.

In short the school idea is great but it has to be in a neutral environment, away from the school.

An example of the attitude is they will take the thrash talk to a personal level. The losing for the first time will discourage them especially if a crowd is watching and their peer pressures buddies were there. The few that actually did enjoy shooting pool and joking around with people at the table needed to be forced into conversations. Unless the conversations were scripted they should not take place. But the school table is not ideal for attracting new customers, its better for fresh bait.

 

[bandido]

Edwin,

I just researched the access to the TFC. I can get either a seven or eight channel package at respective costs of $26 and $35 dollars a month added to a base price of at least $29.95 a month. This is through DirecTV, my satellite dish service provider.

This leads me to believe that buying air time on TFC would only reach a very small niche market in the US. We can check with DirecTV and other major subscribers but I suspect the subscriptions to those packages are a very small portion of their customer base and unless someone is interested in much more than pool on those channels I don't think many will pay an extra $300 a year for access.

One apparent dead end but still avenues to explore. I do like your idea of putting together a package and chasing sponsors large and small for the events or series of events. US rodeo has done that for many years and has recently boomed as a major sport. Putting together a basic program for each event(a brochure) that can be updated at the last minute and printed might help with sponsorship when we don't have much to offer. I spent about thirty thousand dollars a year advertising my small auto salvage business including in rodeo programs, circus programs, and race track programs. It was somewhat effective since it was direct local advertising and the funds were tax deductible. Banners for larger sponsors would work too. Not just the banners at the venue, but some placed around the city to make it known the event was taking place including the time and place of the event and a major sponsor's name and logo.

I have some ideas for a small scale test run while we see if anyone is actually interested in putting together some events or not. I think your idea of a series of qualifiers and crowning regional champions then having the top handful from each of these regions compete for a national title is a great idea. I'm pretty sure that is what you have in mind anyway.

The little small by-monthly tournament at the local pool hall draws players from several states away. This indicates people would come to a regional event and the top players should have some financial support to go to the nationals.

Off the subject a bit but since a large focus of this idea is to create and nurture young players, some young guns came in from several states away and swept first and second at the tourney. Fantastic performances. We have talent right here in the US, we just need a place for it to grow.

Hu

I'm impressed with your display of your love for the sport. Your willingness to find different approaches and realization that most event structuring systems used for the past 2 decades aren't compatible to the image of the sport. Event Promoters and players mindsets should jive in order to rebuild and progress in the new path that'll be taken. It real would be great to be able to offer the players what they think they're worth (pro pool players mostly think of being at the same level as pro players in other sports) but the pool event industry just doesn't have the means. So working side-by-side for progress is a must. Currently, we can't have a champagne taste on a beer budget.

There seem to be some misunderstanding in deciphering my posts so I'll try my best to explain as clearly as I can.
On event promotion:
ESPN and major network coverage is the nuts but pool, currently, doesn't have the numbers (viewership). That is why I mentioned other possible alternatives to air the events. Mine was just an example (TFC) and I'm sure there are others that you guys are more familiar with. Another reason for the TFC suggestion is that it has a current subscription base that's known worldwide to be pool afficionados. So, the subscriber popuation numbers can be used when a "sponsorship package" (similar to a Business Proposal) is presented to a possible sponsor/s.

By the way, preparation for events here start 6 months to a year before the actual event. "Event introduction letters"* are first sent to prospective sponsors (or the Ad Agency that handles the account) in order to get a "feel" for their interest, get an appointment for a face-to-face meeting and get a feedback from them. During the meeting, TV exposure will surely be discussed and based upon these discussions TV airtime is then purchased and a copy of the "Purchase Airtime Contract" included in the formal "Event Sponsorship Package". So, from the above, you can somewhat see part of the initial investment/expenditure of the event promoter. *In lieu of this Event Introduction Letter" most promoters here hold an "Event Launching Cocktail" for the target sponsors' Marketing exectutives and Ad Agency Representatives.

--to be continued--

 

[bandido]

I tried the school idea at my school,

Inviting people to shoot around but most of the time they catch an attitude if you win too much or can't shoot straight at all. This is in addition to the crowds just standing around to comment.

In short the school idea is great but it has to be in a neutral environment, away from the school.

An example of the attitude is they will take the thrash talk to a personal level. The losing for the first time will discourage them especially if a crowd is watching and their peer pressures buddies were there. The few that actually did enjoy shooting pool and joking around with people at the table needed to be forced into conversations. Unless the conversations were scripted they should not take place. But the school table is not ideal for attracting new customers, its better for fresh bait.

The school idea or inclusion of the sport in their curricula is the ultimate in sustaining participation to the sport but that is still way down the line of the "Sport Revival Program". We still yet to have that here in the Philippines. We're still solidifying the image that pool can be a respectable career.

 

[ShootingArts]

income

It real would be great to be able to offer the players what they think they're worth (pro pool players mostly think of being at the same level as pro players in other sports) but the pool event industry just doesn't have the means. So working side-by-side for progress is a must. Currently, we can't have a champagne taste on a beer budget.

Edwin,

I will read over the rest of your post and give it some thought but I wanted to make clear that I am not dreaming of the kind of income players in many sports make at this point. It would be fantastic if the top one hundred men and women could actually net $35,000 a year. That isn't a huge income but with careful management it would keep the bill collectors from beating on the door. At this point I doubt that half of the top ten US players net $35,000 after expenses purely from competitions every year. If they pay the federal taxes and self-employment taxes owed, roughly half of that is lost. They would be earning fairly typical working man's wages although many working men and women do far better.

Hu

 

[ShootingArts]

his post

The part of his post about me makes it plain that he is either clueless or terribly biased. I was being generous and assuming that he was clueless.

Hu

What makes you think that NMpool player does not have a clue?