Justis Case Knockoff Design Thief Exposed
- Thread starter Jack Justis
- Start date
Smorgass Bored said:
Don't get your fat rolls all in a wad Doug. Weak comedy and irrelevant argumentative tangeants such as your question about my owning a Justis case, are what this forum is all about. I realized when I posted that I was violating the status quo by actually offering an opinion.
However, despite the irrelevance of your question, I'll add that I have owned both Barton AND Justis cases, and have communicated with both men as friends. I respect John for his contributions to case design in the past, and Jack for what he is doing currently. Jack also provided the instructions I needed to start restoring antique cue cases and leather grips, and the results were great. I recently sold two Justis cases because I needed to get rid of 2 out of 3, and wanted to sell the ones that would bring the most money...I kept a Barton, and I like it. I'll be ordering another Justis as soon as finances permit. I don't know what has happened to John - he's still creative and I think the jealous streak is unecessary.
So I guess now YOU will be providing a resume of your experiences with the two, to justify YOUR right to comment in this thread?
Good to see some of you now venturing out from behind the trees.
Companies the size of Rolex or Levi or Gucchi or...can handle the lost revenue much more than a niche product business like JJ.
If this turns out to be true, I find this a dispicable act from an American business man. Using cheap labor in China to undermine a small business man (let alone someone as upstanding as Jack)...all the while stealing the concept & aesthetics as well...blecch.
I sure HOPE the importer comes to their senses before this gets rolling.
If this turns out to be true, I find this a dispicable act from an American business man. Using cheap labor in China to undermine a small business man (let alone someone as upstanding as Jack)...all the while stealing the concept & aesthetics as well...blecch.
I sure HOPE the importer comes to their senses before this gets rolling.
Curiouser & Curiouser
One thing that surprises me, is that Jack found it necessary to start three threads here at AZB and not on Jimbo's Forum at Inside Pool, where he hangs out regularly and gives his cases away to users.
I don't see ANY mention of this issue at IP, unless I missed it somehow.
Doug
( Jack, did you already have an idea or know for certain who was importing these knock offs when you when you posted here ? )
One thing that surprises me, is that Jack found it necessary to start three threads here at AZB and not on Jimbo's Forum at Inside Pool, where he hangs out regularly and gives his cases away to users.
I don't see ANY mention of this issue at IP, unless I missed it somehow.
Doug
( Jack, did you already have an idea or know for certain who was importing these knock offs when you when you posted here ? )
runscott said:
I don't have a horse in this race. I like both Jack Justis AND John Barton and don't own either one of their cases. My comments in this thread aren't anymore or less valuable than yours.... imo
thanks,
Doug
( I don't think that 'right's' are required to post in a thread on AZB....... I'm a registered voter )
Smorgass Bored said:
Okay, now your previous response to my post makes total sense. I support Jack, thus you divert attention from the issue of your buddy ripping him off.
I hope you are enjoying your Barton case, and that this most recent misjudgement of John's doesn't devalue it too much.
I Don't Like All The CRAP Super Imposed On My TV Sceen Either
LOL... John is not any more 'my buddy' than Jack is, pay attention. I don't own ANY of John's cases and never have. John and I have had as many arguments in the past 10 years as Jimbo and I had.
When all is said and done here, nothing will be accomplished or solved on this issue. Cases will be imported and sold and it will suck as usual. Jack will be unhappy, Justis case owners will be unhappy, I'll be unhappy and nothing will be done about it. Cases will hit e-bay as Justis cases when they aren't and nothing will be done about the secondary market either.
Cues, cases, cars, food, toys, household goods, etc. are being duplicated and sold daily around the word. THAT is the world that we now live in. I don't like it any better than most of the others here, but I'm TOO old to start tilting at windmills. I'll leave it that to the younger generation.
Doug
runscott said:
LOL... John is not any more 'my buddy' than Jack is, pay attention. I don't own ANY of John's cases and never have. John and I have had as many arguments in the past 10 years as Jimbo and I had.
When all is said and done here, nothing will be accomplished or solved on this issue. Cases will be imported and sold and it will suck as usual. Jack will be unhappy, Justis case owners will be unhappy, I'll be unhappy and nothing will be done about it. Cases will hit e-bay as Justis cases when they aren't and nothing will be done about the secondary market either.
Cues, cases, cars, food, toys, household goods, etc. are being duplicated and sold daily around the word. THAT is the world that we now live in. I don't like it any better than most of the others here, but I'm TOO old to start tilting at windmills. I'll leave it that to the younger generation.
Doug
Smorgass Bored said:
Right, you sound very impartial. John Barton posted a bunch of tripe on the other forum about Chinese cues and also some jealousy-inpired b.s. trying to hype his own cases over Jack's. It became obvious even to him that no one agreed with him or even cared to listen to him, and so he came back here where he was more comfortable. Now Jack has an issue with him, and he's coming directly to his lair. What's the surprise?
Regarding free cases to forum users, there's yet another idea that John Barton took from Jack and brought to this forum (in both cases, they were raffles - not free giveaways)...or were you sleeping during that?
Don't you guys read your own forum posts before you jump into a fray
Jack, if it's any solace.......guess that solves it. Your cases are FAR SUPERIOR to those Instroke's after all. It took those Chinese crafts-men and -women (and -children) a LOT longer to be able to knock them off. 
Sean (always after the silver lining in a commode full of crap)
Sean (always after the silver lining in a commode full of crap)
I Multi Task
I wasn't in need of or interested in a pool case, so I didn't read the threads or participate in ANY raffles....
Doug
( I read many of the threads here at AZB and SOME at IP ....... thank you for your interest )
* I even read YOUR posts.
Edited to add: I think I'll follow your lead and abandon this thread also.
runscott said:Regarding free cases to forum users, there's yet another idea that John Barton took from Jack and brought to this forum (in both cases, they were raffles - not free giveaways)...or were you sleeping during that?
Don't you guys read your own forum posts before you jump into a fray
I wasn't in need of or interested in a pool case, so I didn't read the threads or participate in ANY raffles....
Doug
( I read many of the threads here at AZB and SOME at IP ....... thank you for your interest )
* I even read YOUR posts.
Edited to add: I think I'll follow your lead and abandon this thread also.
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"imatation is the sincerest form of flattery" i think is the old saying, louie Vouttion has the same problem,
this pisses me off and I encourage everyone to boycott the theifs, it is a criminal act, infact i have the same problem with my business, someone knocked off my business model and it sucks we have worked for 12 years and these guys stole it, my lawyers will get them shut down there is a federal law to protect this sort of crime and its clear law now and works fast now-mainly because of microsoft and other software companys lobbing in Washington DC to protect intellectual property. years ago it was very hard to take action against the knock-off artists.
Jack lemme know if you want any advise i'm good at this kind of stuff-it wont cost you anything or very little-unless they are in china then its hard to stop that, i didnt read the whole thread so i dont have all the details
this pisses me off and I encourage everyone to boycott the theifs, it is a criminal act, infact i have the same problem with my business, someone knocked off my business model and it sucks we have worked for 12 years and these guys stole it, my lawyers will get them shut down there is a federal law to protect this sort of crime and its clear law now and works fast now-mainly because of microsoft and other software companys lobbing in Washington DC to protect intellectual property. years ago it was very hard to take action against the knock-off artists.
Jack lemme know if you want any advise i'm good at this kind of stuff-it wont cost you anything or very little-unless they are in china then its hard to stop that, i didnt read the whole thread so i dont have all the details
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John Barton
New member
TATE said:
No. Not even close. The case that was referenced was a case THAT I posted months ago in the Inside Pool Magazine forum to PROVE that Cheap Vinyl copies of Justis existed already.
The only reason I considered importing them was because Jack and one other poster were dicks to me for disagreeing with them about case construction. So in a fit of pique I responded in the PRIVATE message as I did and NOTHING has ever materialized from it - no cases were purchased, imported or sold.
BUT if JACK had a CLUE then he would KNOW that his DEALER is the one who has been bringing those cases in for over TWO YEARS.
and NO I am NOT going to spell out who that is.
Smorgass Bored said:
Don Quixote? Smorg, I had no idea you were a learned man!
Russ
John Barton
New member
Jack Justis said:
You gotta be kidding - you are going to take a private message completely out of context and try and prove that I am copying you?
First of all Jack, IF I wanted to copy you then I wouldn't do it with that crappy design. I would make a case that you couldn't even begin to dream of doing. Well in fact I am doing a case like that and when you see it you will wish that you could do it. But you don't have the skill nor the team to do it. So stick to your basic designs.
Secondly, this private message was in regards to a picture of a VINYL EMBROIDERED copy of your cases that I posted to a thread on the IPM Forum to PROVE that such copies in fact existed. I had NO INTENTION of importing them but since you and one other person were asses to me in the thread I repsonded to the PM that I would make them available. But I never did although I could have easily done so. Did you forget to show the DATE on the PM? Why yes, yes you did, it was about four or five months ago, or maybe longer, I forget. You really should have tried to talk to me first before posting this. Now any shred of friendship is gone as is also any respect I had for you.
Thirdly, if you had ANY clue at all then you would know that the case I showed picture of has been available for sale for TWO YEARS through one of YOUR dealers. But you have no clue and completely forget that I warned you about Justis knockoffs in 2001 after my visit to Taiwan.
You make me sick Jack. All you had to do is send me an email and we could have talked about it. Instead you jump to conclusions based on out of context private communications. You know FULL WELL that I could have showed up to ANY tournament that you show at with a full set of cases that would have been as good or better (my opinion) than your cases at any time in the last decade. Why didn't I? Why didn't I copy you or Whitten? Certainly not because your cases are technically challenging, nor because your designs are hard to reproduce, nor because I was afraid of you or litigation. No, it was because I respected you as a colleague. It was because I looked up to you even if we disagreed about construction methods. That is why I never copied you and that is why in the end I DID NOT bring in cases that are cheap copies of your look.
And to the guy who sent you the private message - you are also a *****. You know that you NEVER received a case but you HAPPILY accepted the prize cue I sent you that you won in the FREE raffle.
Jack I think you should give - xxxxx's (I won't name names) girlfriend a FREE Justis case. He has earned it by causing you to lose someone who revered you.