Justis Case Knockoff

Jack Justis

Jack Justis

CASEMAKER
Silver Member
I would appreciate any information regarding the maker of the case below. I realize it is impossible to keep up with things coming out of China but at least I will be able to put a name with the design thief that is blatantly coping my case. All information will be kept confidential except the name of the thief. I have turned on my PM's for your convenience.
 

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It gets worse. There are several places that are copying your case. You can pick a manufacturer and they are making a version of your style. Including vinyl ones where the "tooling" is embroidered.

your cases have been copied here for the last ten years. Prepare for a flood though - you can expect to see booths full of them next year.
 
qballmagician said:
Well Jack I believe the word is COUNTERFEIT. But the copy cat appears to have put the Zipper, an Handle on the opposite side of your cases.
Click to expand...

Yes, I see you are correct.
 
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I urge everybody reading this to let Jack know who is importing these cases and selling them. For crying out loud, let's NOT encourage this nonsense by buying the damn things.

Chris
 
Actually it's only a counterfeit if it is sold as a Justis. In this sense it's only a copy. Or "tribute" depending on how you look at it.

Consider yourself lucky Jack that you haven't had to fade these until now. I have had to put up with copies of Instroke cases for over 9 years.

I remember full well the sick feeling I had when I saw the first ones being advertised. Sucks don't it. Well, I hope you find a way to live with it because I can tell you that there is about to be a full assault on you and Whitten in the coming year.

Which is why I went to total one of a kinds. I am not going to get pissed anymore if someone copies me.

But I will be protecting my mass production designs however I can BEFORE I release them to the public.
 
Knockoff's SUCK

TATE said:
I urge everybody reading this to let Jack know who is importing these cases and selling them. For crying out loud, let's NOT encourage this nonsense by buying the damn things.

Chris
Click to expand...


While that idea is fine & dandy, what about the OTHER 39 million poolplaying Americans that don't read AZB ?
I think that we should HANG one of the counterfeiters from an old oak in the Town Square.... and leave them there for the crows.
Doug
 
TATE said:
I urge everybody reading this to let Jack know who is importing these cases and selling them. For crying out loud, let's NOT encourage this nonsense by buying the damn things.

Chris
Click to expand...

I gotta ask why it's such a big deal? Jack can do nothing about it. Just like I was able to do nothing to stop the people who were/are knocking off Instroke cases.

What about all the copying and inbreeding concerning Fellini/Centennial/Kelli/Engles/George/Thomas? How come noone has anything to say about that?

Or the fact that Jack copied Jay Flowers when he got started?

I like Jack and Dan Whitten and I HATE it for them that they are going to have to deal with the headaches that come with copies of their cases floating around, from lost sales to fraudulent sellers misrepresenting them to service calls when people think they bought the real thing, BUT I see no reason why the billiard community needs to become an informant society when it hasn't done so already.

They will both find out soon enough who the importers are. They will see soon enough who the sellers are. There will be plenty of folks who will call Jack and Dan with info.

These cases will be bought and they will be bought by folks who like good looks at low prices regardless of quality. There won't be anything Jack and Dan can do about it. Nothing. I know. The only thing that they can do is continue to build great quality and make sure that people are informed of what their quality is.

Anyway, rant off. Copies suck but they are part of life.

Jack - one of the companies that is making Justis like cases is Instroke. When I was there I didn't allow it. Now, it's wide open for them to do whatever they want and they supply anyone with anything they want.
 
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John Barton said:
Actually it's only a counterfeit if it is sold as a Justis. In this sense it's only a copy. Or "tribute" depending on how you look at it.

Consider yourself lucky Jack that you haven't had to fade these until now. I have had to put up with copies of Instroke cases for over 9 years.

I remember full well the sick feeling I had when I saw the first ones being advertised. Sucks don't it. Well, I hope you find a way to live with it because I can tell you that there is about to be a full assault on you and Whitten in the coming year.

Which is why I went to total one of a kinds. I am not going to get pissed anymore if someone copies me.

But I will be protecting my mass production designs however I can BEFORE I release them to the public.
Click to expand...





Well John I think you are the messenger boy delivering the bad news to both Jack and Dan. China is copying everything that sells including Dan?s, and Jack?s cue cases.

I am not an attorney, and have never played on on TV, but I believe you John know the laws about these subjects. When you said.

?Actually it's only a counterfeit if it is sold as a Justis. In this sense it's only a copy. Or "tribute" depending on how you look at it.?

As for my post above after looking at the Copy Justis above, and a Real Justis on Jack?s web-site.

I should have said well Jack I believe the word is COUNTERFEIT. But the copy cat appears to have put the Zipper, an Handle on the opposite side of your cases, as this copy cat appears to have the Snap closure on the Opposite Side from the Carry Handle /Strap.
 
observant

qballmagician said:
Well Jack I believe the word is COUNTERFEIT. But the copy cat appears to have put the Zipper, an Handle on the opposite side of your cases.
Click to expand...

Well, that's one way to tell the difference. How do you guys keep coming up with this stuff, it's amazing...
 
I'm Never Too Busy To Help Someone

Smorgass Bored said:
While that idea is fine & dandy, what about the OTHER 39 million poolplaying Americans that don't read AZB ?
I think that we should HANG one of the counterfeiters from an old oak in the Town Square.... and leave them there for the crows.
Doug
Click to expand...


John Barton replied sensibly:
"I gotta ask why it's such a big deal? Jack can do nothing about it. Just like I was able to do nothing to stop the people who were/are knocking off Instroke cases.

What about all the copying and inbreeding concerning Fellini/Centennial/Kelli/Engles/George/Thomas? How come noone has anything to say about that?

Or the fact that Jack copied Jay Flowers when he got started?

I like Jack and Dan Whitten and I HATE it for them that they are going to have to deal with the headaches that come with copies of their cases floating around, from lost sales to fraudulent sellers misrepresenting them to service calls when people think they bought the real thing, BUT I see no reason why the billiard community needs to become an informant society when it hasn't done so already.

They will both find out soon enough who the importers are. They will see soon enough who the sellers are. There will be plenty of folks who will call Jack and Dan with info.

These cases will be bought and they will be bought by folks who like good looks at low prices regardless of quality. There won't be anything Jack and Dan can do about it. Nothing. I know. The only thing that they can do is continue to build great quality and make sure that people are informed of what their quality is.

Anyway, rant off. Copies suck but they are part of life."


Smorgass Bored rubs his chin(s) thoughtfully and comes up with:
..I hadn't thought of all that, so now, the only reasonably soloution is to hang Jack Justis from the Town Square oak tree and put HIM out of his misery..... it just ain't 'fair'.

Doug
( life sucks........ sometimes ) imo
 
This Is Why I Get Paid The BIG Bucks

SOLUTION: We (all AZBers) should all actively see to it that all 40 million American poolplayers quickly buy a 'REAL' Jack Justis case and then all the counterfeit cases would sit unsold and gathering dust in the dealers showrooms....... VIOLA !

Doug W.
( Jack, how quickly can you turn out the the first million ? How about the OTHER 39 million ? )


*Please don't go alphabetically.......... or according to the customer's WEIGHT. OK ? :)
 
John Barton said:
I gotta ask why it's such a big deal? Jack can do nothing about it. Just like I was able to do nothing to stop the people who were/are knocking off Instroke cases.

What about all the copying and inbreeding concerning Fellini/Centennial/Kelli/Engles/George/Thomas? How come noone has anything to say about that?

Or the fact that Jack copied Jay Flowers when he got started?
Click to expand...

^^^^Agree^^^^

This is nothing new, cases are copied all the time and noone got it more then John up there with every second case that "looks" like a Instroke being something else these days.

If a custom case maker wants to stay up to date and cutting edge they have to constantly improve on their product and inovate or else eventually people will catch up and copy the way they do things. One would be hard pressed to "copy" alot of what Murnak is doing simply because he is always changing stuff up. By the time you have produced a legit copy of one of his cases he is already doing things abit different and better.

Furthermore people who have been doing this for a long time should be doing it better then a upstart company mass producing copies. I would hope the leather quality of Justis cases surpasses that of the above case and also hope that the quality of the build and carving is better on the Justis. If the above case is actually hand made and equal in quality that means it should be pretty expensive and people will likely still buy the Justis for resale value and quality assurance that comes with the Justis name.

That being said, Justis cases are not very unique from one case to the next. A different leather color, a different pocket configuration, a different choice of commonly used carved design on his cases, this makes them easier to copy. The truly unique carving and dye work on a Murnak makes it such that you cannot really copy them. Each of his custom designed cases are unique with totally new carving and dye jobs. You could copy his base case but those are just the template that the custom carving, pocketwork, ect... are added to and the base case would not look like any of his truly custom work at all. When you stick to a very predictable model without much variation between cases beyond leather color you are going to get copied, no better example of that then Fellini and Instroke.

If anything these copycat cases should push the custom case makers forward into producing truly unique personalized products that are superior to the production stuff that is comming out.
 
FWIW, I'm not so sure this will hurt Jack's business. Players looking for a less expensive case may buy this one, but it will most likely be in place of a less expensive, imported case similar to Instroke, rather than one made by Jack himself. The people who are interested in great quality and workmanship from a casemaker who stands behind his work are still going to give guys like Jack Justis and Dan Whitten their business. I've been looking forward to getting my first Justis in the next 6 months, and learning that a cheaper alternative is out there has not changed my mind one bit.

That said, I can understand why Jack is so upset -- he has a style that is unique, that he has worked for years to develop, and now someone can simply mimic his designs and profit. It's a shame, but it's an element that will always be there. Where there's demand, there's a way.

Jack, the people who have admired your work and enjoyed your craftsmanship will always be here, and many of those who haven't done so yet will eventually wake up and smell the coffee.
 
Maybe he should use those little flags that say Made in America on them. Oh, but those are probably made in China now also.
Dan
 
John Barton said:
I gotta ask why it's such a big deal? Jack can do nothing about it. Just like I was able to do nothing to stop the people who were/are knocking off Instroke cases.

What about all the copying and inbreeding concerning Fellini/Centennial/Kelli/Engles/George/Thomas? How come noone has anything to say about that?

Or the fact that Jack copied Jay Flowers when he got started?

I like Jack and Dan Whitten and I HATE it for them that they are going to have to deal with the headaches that come with copies of their cases floating around, from lost sales to fraudulent sellers misrepresenting them to service calls when people think they bought the real thing, BUT I see no reason why the billiard community needs to become an informant society when it hasn't done so already.

They will both find out soon enough who the importers are. They will see soon enough who the sellers are. There will be plenty of folks who will call Jack and Dan with info.

These cases will be bought and they will be bought by folks who like good looks at low prices regardless of quality. There won't be anything Jack and Dan can do about it. Nothing. I know. The only thing that they can do is continue to build great quality and make sure that people are informed of what their quality is.

Anyway, rant off. Copies suck but they are part of life.

Jack - one of the companies that is making Justis like cases is Instroke. When I was there I didn't allow it. Now, it's wide open for them to do whatever they want and they supply anyone with anything they want.
Click to expand...

I don't think there's anything Jack can do about it legally anyway unless he copyrighted his design, which is unlikely. The part that bothers me the most is the likelyhood of people getting ripped off by copies re-sold being represented as real Justis cases. This sort of small time fraud is rampant on the internet as you know and there is little the law is willing to do about it.

I think we can support him by boycotting companies that would stoop to this practice. I would do the same for you.

Chris
 
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TATE said:
I don't think there's anything Jack can do about it legally anyway unless he copyrighted his design, which is unlikely. The part that bothers me the most is the likelyhood of people getting ripped off by copies re-sold being represented as real Justis cases. This sort of small time fraud is rampant on the internet as you know and there is little the law is willing to do about it.

I think we can support him by boycotting companies that would stoop to this practice. I would do the same for you.

Chris
Click to expand...

Chris,

I have two Justis cases and both are stamped so. People wanting to buy a genuine Justis should look for the stamp.

Barbara
 
while such news is utterly life altering, why the stereo thread? (3 infact.. could be 4 but i haven't checked npr)

no need to post a post to this post btw. beer & football is up.

cheers,
 
John, You may not be aware of it but your whole attitude has changed since you began working in China for/with Sterling.
John Barton said:
I HATE it for them that they are going to have to deal with the headaches that come with copies of their cases floating around, from lost sales to fraudulent sellers misrepresenting them to service calls when people think they bought the real thing,
Click to expand...
Speaking of "sales". I may not have spent zillions of $$$ with Sterling Gaming over the past years but you can certainly count on future purchases being zero. You can credit that directly to the subject of this thread.

This just isn't right John! IMO of course!
 
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